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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Rafin said:
Whose idea/hope was that it would work that way? Because Magnus could have easily put something to enforce that into the Articles, but deliberately did not.
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Keep in mind Magnus the Pious does not have secret mind control powers. The reason the articles work is in no small measure because they reasonable things so that the wizards police each other. I mean imagine all the tricks we have used to get around the letter of the Vow of Poverty, now imagine the creativity of every wizard from every college bent upon it... and BTW your superiors are in on it because it is blatant anti-wizard discrimination. The system would break down, likely explosively.
 
Rafin said:
Also, do knights from Knight Orders (holy or not) also always own a piece of land?
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I don't think so? Usually you join if you want glory and such, and are usually far enough down the inheritance tree you'd get at best a Crown and warm handshake when the father passes.

Saidoro said:
Yeah, the thing that first made the comparison shine for me was the "oddly patriotic criminal underworld, which is completely unaffiliated with the Grey College" that kept on mugging the hobgoblins trying to assassinate LM Grey. Altdorf is clearly alt-Ankh-Morpork and that's great.
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Or it's just common sense. The Underworld handles themselves, or the Greys can. It's not a hard contest.
 
BoneyM said:
Altdorf has been impossible to map ever since Teclis rearranged it to find room for the Colleges. There are neighbourhoods with itinerant menhirs, neighbourhoods that still smoulder from the Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels, neighbourhoods where the streets connect together differently if you think about it too much. Anyone with a window view of the Celestial College quickly forgets that window exists. There are impossibly thick fogs that are so prone to causing riots that it's become routine to call up the militia to supplement the City Watch every time one descends. Altdorfers already know that magic is affecting their everyday lives.
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Now that this has been the status quo for many generations, how do Altdorfians feel about the every day presence of magic in their lives? I imagine that grumbling about it has become a traditional passtime among locals, but that whenever a group of them travels abroad they are actually proud and nostalgic about their familiarity with magic and happy to scoff at "provincials" who fear all kinds if it, or don't know anything much about Wind magic.


Also, another question on the topic of nobility:
We've seen that Dwarves don't quite know how to interpret many of the lower noble titles and essentially see most of them as Thanes of varying importance, i.e. commanders and/or fiefdom owners and/or heads of extended families of importance.
But how does the Empire interpret Dwarven nobility and how does it handle them when it comes to order of precedence during formal events and whatnot?

Also, is any of the Imperial nobility non-Human? I.e. is there such a thing as a count or baron in an Imperial province that's a Dwarf, Halfling or... Ogre? Or is that type of social hierarchy separated by species in all but the rarest of exceptions?
DragonParadox said:
Keep in mind Magnus the Pious does not have secret mind control powers. The reason the articles work is in no small measure because they reasonable things so that the wizards police each other. I mean imagine all the tricks we have used to get around the letter of the Vow of Poverty, now imagine the creativity of every wizard from every college bent upon it... and BTW your superiors are in on it because it is blatant anti-wizard discrimination. The system would break down, likely explosively.
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The Articles are blatantly permissive and respectful though, only really curtailing Wizards in ways that even Wizards find sensible. Any savvy noble of his time should have seen that very clearly. Meaning that smart yet bigoted people with political power must have been pretty much bulldozed over and aware that they wouldn't be getting nearly as much restriction and control over Wizards as they would have liked.
 
Rafin said:
The Articles are blatantly permissive and respectful though, only really curtailing Wizards in ways that even Wizards find sensible. Any savvy noble of his time should have seen that very clearly. Meaning that smart yet bigoted people with political power must have been pretty much bulldozed over and aware that they wouldn't be getting nearly as much restriction and control over Wizards as they would have liked.
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So they did, what are they going to do about it? Argue with the living saint of practically every single god? Try to move in force against the collective of wizards who have just come back from fighting the hosts of the Everhosen on even ground?

This is not a parliamentary system here, no mechanism for nobles to make the Emperor do things he does not want to besides the overt or covert threat of force and that does not work against Magnus because a lot of your own peasants are going to side with him. Recall how this petty noble from Nuln came to preeminence.

By the time Magnus is dead precedent is already on the side of keeping the articles as is and there is still the question of who is going to be the first to put his hand into the lion's mouth to fight the gathering of scary witches with scary witch powers?

The very lack of formal organization and for lack of a better term 'class consciousness' means the nobles are not going to act as a unified block, the wizards are because they know they are hated and their only chance is in unity.
 
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DragonParadox said:
So they did, what are they going to do about it? Argue with the living saint of practically every single god? Try to move in force against the collective of wizards who have just come back from fighting the hosts of the Everhosen on even ground?

This is not a parliamentary system here, no mechanism for nobles to make the Emperor do things he does not want to besides the overt or covert threat of force and that does not work against Magnus because a lot of your own peasants are going to side with him. Recall how this petty noble from Nuln came to preeminence.

By the time Magnus is dead precedent is already on the side of keeping the articles as is and there is still the question of who is going to be the first to put his hand into the lion's mouth to fight the gathering of scary witches with scary witch powers?

The very lack of formal organization and for lack of a better term 'class consciousness' means the nobles are not going to act as a unified block, the wizards are because they know they are hated and their only chance is in unity.
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You misunderstand my initial question. It was about who thought or hoped that the Wizard Orders and their initial charter would curtail the ability of Wizards to independently amass wealth and power. I.e. who read and or approved the Articles thinking that they would conform to their anti-Wizard interests.
 
Rafin said:
You misunderstand my initial question. It was about who thought or hoped that the Wizard Orders and their initial charter would curtail the ability of Wizards to independently amass wealth and power. I.e. who read and or approved the Articles thinking that they would conform to their anti-Wizard interests.
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People who were clinging at straws in the whole 'magister system' maybe? No one said it was the clever bigots who came up with the idea.
 
Holy smokes... I've done it. I've read it, I've read it all. And not just the treadmarks but the apocrypha and the comments too. Only took me 6 bloody months.
 
Altom said:
Holy smokes... I've done it. I've read it, I've read it all. And not just the treadmarks but the apocrypha and the comments too. Only took me 6 bloody months.
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Did you read it all in order of posting or did you read the threadmarks first and then go back for the rest?

Either way, kudos to your achievement. I'm definitely curious to hear your wisdom and perspective about this crazy community of ours.
 
Rafin said:
Did you read it all in order of posting or did you read the threadmarks first and then go back for the rest?

Either way, kudos to your achievement. I'm definitely curious to hear your wisdom and perspective about this crazy community of ours.
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the former. Now I am torn between rereading all the threadmarks or binging Torroar's quest straight away. Well, gotta hit the sack, and think tommorow.
 
Altom said:
the former. Now I am torn between rereading all the threadmarks or binging Torroar's quest straight away. Well, gotta hit the sack, and think tommorow.
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I had a question for someone in your situation.

If you have fresh memories of summoning Karak Vlag back, do you perhaps remember if the similarities with the summoning of dwarf heaven in the material world were discussed?
 
Altom said:
the former. Now I am torn between rereading all the threadmarks or binging Torroar's quest straight away. Well, gotta hit the sack, and think tommorow.
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*sidles up*
Could I interest you in an extended omake?
*looks around furtively*
Only 141 pages, so a light snack for someone with your appetites.
*disappears into the shadows*

Jeopardizer said:
If you have fresh memories of summoning Karak Vlag back, do you perhaps remember if the similarities with the summoning of dwarf heaven in the material world were discussed?
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Occasionally when I'm rereading the threadmarks I'll go through the discussion between, and I'm pretty sure there was a comment to do with them both being pockets within the Aethyr that are partly real, but I'd have to reread that section to be sure.

I probably should anyhow soonish.
 
kingreaper said:
Occasionally when I'm rereading the threadmarks I'll go through the discussion between, and I'm pretty sure there was a comment to do with them both being pockets within the Aethyr that are partly real, but I'd have to reread that section to be sure.

I probably should anyhow soonish.
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I'm rereading right now. I'm just trying to figure out if pulling a mini-Gazul-of-the-flame like that could be the justificatrion for making her a dwarf, rather than just dwarvish pride.
 
Jeopardizer said:
I'm rereading right now. I'm just trying to figure out if pulling a mini-Gazul-of-the-flame like that could be the justificatrion for making her a dwarf, rather than just dwarvish pride.
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General opinion seems to be that dwarvish pride led them to ask the question, and then Ranald heard and he giggled and convinced them it was true - because why would he tell dwarves he'd stolen from them when he hadn't actually done so?

I feel like pulling off a Gazul-of-the-flame would still be dwarvish pride anyway - after all, it's not something that is known to be connected to dwarven anatomy, and while it may be tied to the source of Ancestor Runes Mathilde's act won't have that effect.
 
kingreaper said:
General opinion seems to be that dwarvish pride led them to ask the question, and then Ranald heard and he giggled and convinced them it was true - because why would he tell dwarves he'd stolen from them when he hadn't actually done so?

I feel like pulling off a Gazul-of-the-flame would still be dwarvish pride anyway - after all, it's not something that is known to be connected to dwarven anatomy, and while it may be tied to the source of Ancestor Runes Mathilde's act won't have that effect.
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...Also the whole thing Dwarves have about emulating the Ancestors. And with her having already been tacitly given his blessing—by allowing the use of the Eye—it kinda makes a horrifying amount of sense to see it that way.
 
Good god. I started off reading all the comments but quickly quit since a week had passed and I was still not even a quarter done with the story....and the thread had added over a hundred pages in that time lmao. I applaud you sir. A worthy use of pandemic time.
 
Oh yes. This thread moves FAST some times. I feel like I've largely keep up since Boney's big break, but the only thread I've even tried reading all the commentary after the fact is Panopticon.

Oh! On a similar note, we are coming up on 10,000 pages! I promise here that I will have new Soizic and U-K8P for the occasion! (Or, you know, soon ish after but dedicated all the same!)

It'd be awesome if we could get a bunch of apocrypha to sort of show all the different reader perspectives on this world. 🥺
 
Darth. said:
Good god. I started off reading all the comments but quickly quit since a week had passed and I was still not even a quarter done with the story....and the thread had added over a hundred pages in that time lmao. I applaud you sir. A worthy use of pandemic time.
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I think I read everything the first time?

But that was during the hiatus, so only 745 pages.

The other 9,229 I experienced real-time.
 
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