Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Deathbybunnies]

If you really can't work out if your desire to help Egrimm is due to meta knowledge or not, I suggest considering a hypothetical similar situation.

We didn't interact with Snorri the ranger as much as we did Egrimm, but we did chat a bit, and we got along well. I quite like Snorri! Imagine that Snorri is skilled in something we're recruiting for. We also know he's in a bad spot and could really use a reason to leave for somewhere else. Would you hire Snorri?

 

[Klaus]

Does Panoramia actually want to go to Magister Exams? Last time we talked, it felt as if she wasn't really keen about taking them.

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Correct, she does not.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

If you really can't work out if your desire to help Egrimm is due to meta knowledge or not, I suggest considering a hypothetical similar situation.

We didn't interact with Snorri the ranger as much as we did Egrimm, but we did chat a bit, and we got along well. I quite like Snorri! Imagine that Snorri is skilled in something we're recruiting for. We also know he's in a bad spot and could really use a reason to leave for somewhere else. Would you hire Snorri?

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Snorri is also a canon, well liked, Warhammer character.

a better example is Magister Michel Solmann of the Celestial College: who we basically did one action with and then ignored.

 

[Rafin]

I meant part of the plan format, as in not a separate vote during the same voting period. As in, can we vote for a Library location without voting for the whole plan attached to it and vice versa, like we often do for other such stuff. I didn't ask for it to be part of its own chapter or whatever. Essentially I am asking for the following to be a valid voting format:

[ ] Plan Example
-[ ] Max: Write a paper on writing papers.
-[ ] Johann: Run a marathon.
-[ ] EIC: Fund an expedition to Ind.
-[ ] Duck: Buy everyone a swan as a final joke.

-[ ] Solve Halfling legal problems.
-[ ] Research interdimensional narrative boundaries
-[ ] Break down the fourth wall.
-[ ] Learn English.
--[ ] The Gambler

-[ ] Serenity: Get some well earned sleep.

Approval:

[ ] Establish the site of the KAU in the Helicopter Bay.
[ ] Establish the site of the KAU in the Halfling Village.
[ ] Establish the site of the KAU on Mannslieb (as visible from Karag Nar).

People ask for this sort of thing a lot, and don't seem to give any thought to the fact that they're asking for something very vague and that a lot of the time there's no neat way for a writer to make it happen. How does that sort of scene work, just Mathilde going up to random Wizards and saying "hey, I did X, you probably already heard about that but react to it now all over again so I can see it"? Wandering Karag Lhune and waving around the Grudge proclamation and approaching random Dwarves and asking for them to give their take on it like a TV interviewer accosting people on the street?

Mathilde has had several of her Grey College senpais comment on the Expedition. She's had Belegar give his take on the Grudge thing. Believe me, I get the desire to really wallow in it for a good long time, but the low-hanging 'reactions' are done. As Algard said: "Our work is rarely seen and even rarer appreciated. Temper your expectations accordingly. A job performed well needs to be its own reward, for we so rarely see any other."

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I am not saying that you should actually do it, but I guess if you wanted to, the way to do it would be through a flashback. If I understood correctly you didn't want to delay any of the big decisions so that players don't talk only about them and get heated when they aren't even the subject at hand yet. And now enough time has passed that it doesn't make IC sense for characters to gush about whatever the players are hoping them to gush about. But something like an extra bonus social turn that is deliberately set right after we arrived and before we rode/flew all across the Old World and maybe even gets moved in between there on the threadmark list is technically possible. Again, I am not saying that you should do this. Just that, if you yourself feel like you want to, that could be a way to do it.

This might be a thing. I'll make that decision when it's time to write up the social turn options.

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What about our audience with the High King. Just as we left he was actively looking for us. Then we traveled all over, so he couldn't even find us in Altdorf or Karag Nar. Did he just give up? Or did he send us a letter to come?

Hell, even if he didn't, Mathilde might want to ask just what all that was about and what it means that she's a Dwarf now, as understood by those that proclaimed it in the first place.

There will not be Duckling Club actions after this turn.

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Seeing how WEB-MAT is not an umbrella organization for Wizards not actively employed there, will the Duckling Club social meeting still be a thing?

There's a reason it says 'try to' with them where it doesn't with Johann and Max.

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What kinds of salaries can they expect as WEB-MAT Magisters? I assume it would be significantly lower than their current one.

 

[Woltaire]

[ ] Plan: The Future
-[ ] MAX: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT (NEW)
-[ ] JOHANN: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT (NEW)
-[ ] DUCK: Attempt to recruit someone into the library of KAU (Adela)
-[ ] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets. (Talabecland Branch of the Cult of Kurnous)
-[ ] Experiment with integrating the Vitae into enchantments.
-[ ] Investigate the possibility of using one Wind to directly manipulate another.
-[ ] Attempt to recruit Egrimm van Horstmann into WEB-MAT (NEW)
---[ ] COIN: Gambler
-[ ] Organize and coordinate investigations by Miners and Prospectors and collate the information they gather into a unified map
-[ ] Write a paper: Daemonic Concealment of Karak Vlag (FRESH)
-[ ] PENTHOUSE: Build a basic tower of single-Wind environments for each of the 'missing' Winds: Light, Amber, Amethyst, and Gold: 300gc for four towers.

 

[NeonLights]

I mean, I think poking an object of Ghyran with someone who understands Ghyran is more likely to pay dividends than just the material science lads, but the point about "there's a bunch of stuff we want to do and this is our last Duckling Club action" is valid. It's just that I'm wondering why people are more interested in the mushrooms than the seed we spent an obscene amount of money on.

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Pan's probably very good, but she's not Breach the Unknown good. And the sooner the mushrooms are launched, the sooner we get favor from mass adoption and implementation. Which is useful because we're running low.

 

[Boney]

The library location vote will be separate to the rest of the vote.

I meant part of the plan format, as in not a separate vote during the same voting period. As in, can we vote for a Library location without voting for the whole plan attached to it and vice versa, like we often do for other such stuff. I didn't ask for it to be part of its own chapter or whatever.

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There's plenty of time left in the moratorium and it doesn't substantially impact any other part of the plan, so that would work. Changed.

What about our audience with the High King. Just as we left he was actively looking for us. Then we traveled all over, so he couldn't even find us in Altdorf or Karag Nar. Did he just give up? Or did he send us a letter to come?

Hell, even if he didn't, Mathilde might want to ask just what all that was about and what it means that she's a Dwarf now, as understood by those that proclaimed it in the first place.

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He wanted to meet with her when the Karak Vlag situation was new and weird and she might have some insight into it. He had to figure things out without her, so he doesn't need her input there any more. And the High King is the High King, you don't just wander in when you have a few questions about something he was only peripherally involved with.

Seeing how WEB-MAT is not an umbrella organization for Wizards not actively employed there, will the Duckling Club social meeting still be a thing?

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No.

What kinds of salaries can they expect as WEB-MAT Magisters? I assume it would be significantly lower than their current one.

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The going rate for their rank.

 

[picklepikkl]

I know it's strange for me to be saying this, but can anyone find the conversation with Panoramia that everyone is referring to when they say that she isn't interested in going for Magister? I checked both of our dates with her and that's not it, and I'm kind of at a loss for where else it would be; I did some searches for keywords, but couldn't find it either.

Pan's probably very good, but she's not Breach the Unknown good. And the sooner the mushrooms are launched, the sooner we get favor from mass adoption and implementation.

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I think the thread gives Breach the Unknown way too much credit. Consider how much stuff we've discovered from studying objects where we didn't have Breach the Unknown, and then consider that Johann was responsible for studying the anatomy of the We way back when, leaned on Breach the Unknown for it, and got something wrong (the We's ability to hear). It's powerful, sure, but it's not a replacement for domain expertise, which a Jade Wizard would have on an object that radiates Ghyran super hard.

EDIT: Unrelatedly, @BoneyM, would you confirm if I understand something correctly? Once WEBMAT is set up and Duckling Club is no more, recruiting someone to WEBMAT would occupy one of the WEBMAT half-actions, and studying an artifact with someone within WEBMAT would as well, but studying an artifact with someone outside WEBMAT would be a personal action? "No, I'm not telling you how the turns will work ahead of time" is of course a valid answer.

 

[pucflek]

So I don't think viewing it as pressuring her is justified. People prepare for exams well in advance all the time. We did; we did a lot of prep for our Magister exams in the turns before actually going to Altdorf and testing.

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Except she doesn't want to take it. She might well choose to remain a journeyman for decades. Not everyone is made out of ambition, and pushing her into rank when she doesn't want it and make her feel like we are expecting her to do it despite her explicit distaste for it definitely count as pressuring for me.

EDIT: Just saw your second comment, gonna go look for that quote.

 

[Boney]

I know it's strange for me to be saying this, but can anyone find the conversation with Panoramia that everyone is referring to when they say that she isn't interested in going for Magister? I checked both of our dates with her and that's not it, and I'm kind of at a loss for where else it would be; I did some searches for keywords, but couldn't find it either.

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"Panoramia, how go the Halflings?"

"Mixed news," she says. "First proper harvest is in, and combined with the mushroom farms in Lhune it could feed us through the year if we tightened our belts. But a lot of that was achieved through an absolutely unreasonable amount of care and attention. The soil is going to take decades to properly rehabilitate."

"Even with fertilizer?"

"Every major battle shaves years off, but it's still going to be a long, hard slog. Elder Hluodwica has offered me a long-term contract and sponsorship for a Magister bid."

You smile. "That's great news! Are you going to go for it?"

She waves a hand vaguely. "There's a lot of things I should brush up on, but I've only really got the winter to do so, at least without the harvest suffering. Hluodwica is paying me a Magister rate regardless so it seems unimportant, compared to keeping food on plates."

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Once WEBMAT is set up and Duckling Club is no more, recruiting someone to WEBMAT would occupy one of the WEBMAT half-actions, and studying an artifact with someone within WEBMAT would as well, but studying an artifact with someone outside WEBMAT would be a personal action?

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That's the current plan.

 

[Omegahugger]

I'm kinda disappointed that this wasn't Belegar's reaction to the names Mathilde proposed.

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I don't get it, why would Belegar call her a hippo( kaba) ?

 

[Rafin]

And the High King is the High King, you don't just wander in when you have a few questions about something he was only peripherally involved with.

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Damn. I really wanted that in with Thorgrim.

Could looking up one or more influential Priests who attended the Conclave and asking them about it be an option we could follow through on at some point?

No.

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Poor guys. We're still around but we ain't got no time for them anymore.

Will they still be meeting without Mathilde?

The going rate for their rank.

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Is it a substantial drop for them?

 

[Deathbybunnies]

Snorri is also a canon, well liked, Warhammer character.

a better example is Magister Michel Solmann of the Celestial College: who we basically did one action with and then ignored.

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Even better! Liking him because he's a canon character is fine, though I don't personally care. It's the question of his loyalties that are the issue.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

Poor guys. We're still around but we ain't got no time for them anymore.

Will they still be meeting without Mathilde?

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Yes, they are still interacting off screen.

Boeny has said this a thousand fucking times.

I'm getting mad on their behave at this point.

 

[Boney]

Damn. I really wanted that in with Thorgrim.

Could looking up one or more influential Priests who attended the Conclave and asking them about it be an option we could follow through on at some point?

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You could write out a page or two of someone saying "it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider" and pretend that's an official update if you want.

Will they still be meeting without Mathilde?

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Probably not on a regular basis. They spent time together when they were outsiders who had magic in common, but now Hubert has the Ulricans, Adela has the Gunnery School and her relatives, and Gretel has the Besiegers.

Is it a substantial drop for them?

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No.

 

[picklepikkl]

That's the current plan.

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Thanks (and for the quotation).

In that case, folks, from a pure AP efficiency perspective I don't think it makes sense to recruit Adela this turn, even if you want Adela for WEBMAT. We don't have any reason to believe it's time-sensitive to recruit her this turn (as opposed to Horstmann, where if you want to recruit him at all we want to get him now because there's no guarantee Alric won't send him out again soon), but if we want to study stuff with Panoramia it will cost us a full personal action in the future, which will be in a lot more demand as we start Waystones. As such, I think it's best for our half-actions to look like this:
[ ] MAX: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
[ ] JOHANN: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
[ ] DUCK: Continue to work with Panoramia with implementing the Waaaghsoak Mushrooms as an aid to spellcasting.
[ ] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets.
-[ ] Talabecland Cult of Karnos

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

Even better! Liking him because he's a canon character is fine, though I don't personally care. It's the question of his loyalties that are the issue.

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that doesn't make sense.

The problem is this: the meta-question about his loyalty and his status as a big name character is a huge part of his character in this quest and why he was found interesting.

even the people that care more about what he has done 'in game' only have an idea about that because of the meta knowleage and canon status getting him so many early interactions.

and a lot of those interactions play on the fact we were not sure about his loyalty meta-wise

you cant remove that part and have a lagistment argument about him

and to be clear: I am totally up for recruiting him later. would be very fun.

but I'm not going to make a false statement that 'meta-knowledge doesn't matter. don't let affect your vote'

the character in this quest is built on playing with meta-knowlege.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

Thanks (and for the quotation).

In that case, folks, from a pure AP efficiency perspective I don't think it makes sense to recruit Adela this turn, even if you want Adela for WEBMAT. We don't have any reason to believe it's time-sensitive to recruit her this turn (as opposed to Horstmann, where if you want to recruit him at all we want to get him now because there's no guarantee Alric won't send him out again soon), but if we want to study stuff with Panoramia it will cost us a full personal action in the future, which will be in a lot more demand as we start Waystones. As such, I think it's best for our half-actions to look like this:
[ ] MAX: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
[ ] JOHANN: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
[ ] DUCK: Continue to work with Panoramia with implementing the Waaaghsoak Mushrooms as an aid to spellcasting.
[ ] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets.
-[ ] Talabecland Cult of Karnos

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I see your point and revert

[]Plan: Jyn, AV, Tongs and Spells
-[ ] MAX: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
-[ ] JOHANN: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
-[ ] DUCK: Continue to work with Panoramia with implementing the Waaaghsoak Mushrooms as an aid to spellcasting.
-[ ] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets. (Talabecland Branch of the Cult of Kurnous)
-[ ] Experiment with integrating the Vitae into enchantments.
-[ ] Investigate the possibility of using one Wind to directly manipulate another.
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] Attempt to finish off the Grey College spellbook by learning Shadow of Death, Cloak Activity, and the MAPP.
-[ ] Seek any pre-Time of Woes information on the Lhune Depths that may have survived the Karak's fall
-[ ] SERENITY: Write a paper: Daemonic Concealment of Karak Vlag
-[ ] PENTHOUSE: Build a basic tower of single-Wind environments for each of the 'missing' Winds: Light, Amber, Amethyst, and Gold: 300gc for four towers.
-[ ] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to.

[]Plan: Jyn, AV, Spells and last job
-[ ] MAX: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
-[ ] JOHANN: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
-[ ] DUCK: Continue to work with Panoramia with implementing the Waaaghsoak Mushrooms as an aid to spellcasting.
-[ ] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets. (Talabecland Branch of the Cult of Kurnous)
-[ ] Experiment with integrating the Vitae into enchantments.
-[ ] Attempt to finish off the Grey College spellbook by learning Shadow of Death, Cloak Activity, and the MAPP.
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] Seek any pre-Time of Woes information on the Lhune Depths that may have survived the Karak's fall
-[ ] Organize and coordinate investigations by Miners and Prospectors and collate the information they gather into a unified map
-[ ] SERENITY: Write a paper: Daemonic Concealment of Karak Vlag
-[ ] PENTHOUSE: Build a basic tower of single-Wind environments for each of the 'missing' Winds: Light, Amber, Amethyst, and Gold: 300gc for four towers.
-[ ] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to.

 

[Sparsebeard]

The Okral attack has shown how the rivers and canals are a vulnerability for both Karaz Ankor and the EIC. I propose we start using convoys of EIC trade ships, River Monitors and EIC paramilitary river navy.

If any other ambush such as the Okral should happen again, the ones to take the blow should be military vessels rather than trade ships or monitors.

[ ] EIC: Improve and expand the EIC's paramilitary river navy. Try and reach an agreement to have EIC trade ships, River Monitors and EIC paramilitary river navy travel in convoys.

I'd love to hear thoughts about such an EIC action.

 

[picklepikkl]

The Okral attack has shown how the rivers and canals are a vulnerability for both Karaz Ankor and the EIC. I propose we start using convoys of EIC trade ships, River Monitors and EIC paramilitary river navy.

If any other ambush such as the Okral should happen again, the ones to take the blow should be military vessels rather than trade ships or monitors.

[ ] EIC: Improve and expand the EIC's paramilitary river navy. Try and reach an agreement to have EIC trade ships, River Monitors and EIC paramilitary river navy travel in convoys.

I'd love to hear thoughts about such an EIC action.

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My thoughts are "I don't think we need to tell either Barak Varr or the EIC that maybe they should be careful; they're capable of realizing on their own that if there's been one major river attack, more might come," and "if we are keeping the EIC around, I want to use it for spy/intel-gathering stuff and not for economic stuff."

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

The Okral attack has shown how the rivers and canals are a vulnerability for both Karaz Ankor and the EIC. I propose we start using convoys of EIC trade ships, River Monitors and EIC paramilitary river navy.

If any other ambush such as the Okral should happen again, the ones to take the blow should be military vessels rather than trade ships or monitors.

[ ] EIC: Improve and expand the EIC's paramilitary river navy. Try and reach an agreement to have EIC trade ships, River Monitors and EIC paramilitary river navy travel in convoys.

I'd love to hear thoughts about such an EIC action.

Click to shrink...

not super our problem at this point: we are suppose to be building a spy network, not a navy

edit: High five pickle.

 

[storryeater]

You could write out a page or two of someone saying "it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider" and pretend that's an official update if you want.

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That should be the easiest omake ever written.

Spoiler: the omake in question (in spoilers, just in case its considered spam otherwise)

"it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider. it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider. it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider."

"it's Ancestor Cult business, you can't and won't share that information with an outsider?"

"it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider. it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's really Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider."

"So it's Ancestor Cult business, and you can't and won't share that information with an outsider ?"

"I am sorry but it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider ."

"A pity that it's Ancestor Cult business, and you can't and won't share that information with an outsider , then."

"That's how it is. it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider. it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider ."

"Well then it seems that I have no choice but to accept that it's Ancestor Cult business, and you can't and won't share that information with an outsider."

"I am glad you understand it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider. But just so I am certain you have comprehended it in full, I must reiterate that it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider ."

"Hmmm... but what if..."

"it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider .it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider .it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider .it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider .it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider .it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider .it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider .it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider .it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider .it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider .it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider .it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider .it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider .it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider . it's Ancestor Cult business, I can't and won't share that information with an outsider."

"Ok, ok gotcha. it's Ancestor Cult business, you can't and won't share that information with an outsider "

 

[pucflek]

I honestly don't even know why we would want to become Supreme Matriarch tbh. These people don't get to travel lightly, they are mostly so busy delegating to avert diplomatic and magical disasters and managing their colleges that they don't really get to do anything interesting. I don't want our only outings out of Altdorf be something we have to find excuse for (like Algard did for our tower) hoping the idiots won't burn down the shadow campus, or call to arms because Sylvania is about to murder the shit out of people (Ala Hexensohn), which is the only time Patriarchs/Matriarchs seem to take field.

That hat is far too busy to occupy while staying something of an adventurer. And thats not even talking about the Supreme one.

 

[Alliterate]

From that quote, it now reads to me like Panoramia was having time management problems in preparing to try for Magister, though perhaps she was using those as a mental excuse.

About 240 crowns.

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240? Mmmm… eh.
I'm half convinced we've tithed away more than that in a turn. And will probably wind up giving him the gold laser arm as an afterthought.

There's a reason it says 'try to' with them where it doesn't with Johann and Max. Part of trying to recruit them will be trying to find a way to address those previous obligations. So, try it and find out.

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Is there a reason beyond the basic action economy structure the near-auto-yes, with no tricky obligations to address takes a 'full' half action to recruit Max and Johann, then? I admit, when I read the turn with your comments to that effect, I expected to read (FREE) after the recruit Max and Johann options.

 

[Boney]

Is there a reason beyond the basic action economy structure the near-auto-yes, with no tricky obligations to address takes a 'full' half action to recruit Max and Johann, then? I admit, when I read the turn with your comments to that effect, I expected to read (FREE) after the recruit Max and Johann options.

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Onboarding.