Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Reader mode
Romv said:
There's something I'm misunderstanding about this, I think, because I have the same question going through my mind every time I read this.
If Albion's mists have disappeared, and as mentioned, it is in the middle of some of the most frequented waters of the world, how is it still a farcical tall tale? Weren't the mists what was keeping it hidden?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Right now the year is 2486, so we still have some 30 years.
 
Romv said:
There's something I'm misunderstanding about this, I think, because I have the same question going through my mind every time I read this.
If Albion's mists have disappeared, and as mentioned, it is in the middle of some of the most frequented waters of the world, how is it still a farcical tall tale? Weren't the mists what was keeping it hidden?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Mists haven't gone yet.
 
[X] Karak Eight Peaks
[X] Laurelorn
[X] Carcassone
[] Some Imperial Options

Not sure which Imperial Aegis to investigate.

Edit:

[X] Research Institute

This probably has the highest chance of letting us sneak in some Vanity projects to the research team, so might as well check it out.
 
Last edited:
Jyn Ryvia said:
K8Ps is the closest nation to Nagash's holiday house.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's also extremely well defended. And Tobaro is closer from Skavenblight than K8P from Nagashizar

Jyn Ryvia said:
Reikland is near Reikwald Forest
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Beastmen are less organised than Skavens, and it's also the center of imperial power so very well defended.

Jyn Ryvia said:
Stirland has Vampire land
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The vampires are currently being stepped on hard by battle wizards.

Jyn Ryvia said:
Carcassone has the crazy elfs
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Who are less likely to try to attack something that has the goal of protecting the world than a race serving a Chaos god.

Jyn Ryvia said:
Paag has the fuckng Wastes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's why I didn't vote for it and think it's a bad choice.
 
Last edited:
[X] Karak Eight Peaks
[X] Stirland
[X] Praag

Eight Peaks is practical, as is Stirland. Stirland and Praag both have a notable need for magical-radiation cleanup. Praag is strange but intriguing to me.
 
would you believe I'm actually leaning towards either of these two?

Laurelorn
Jurisdiction: The Eonir
Superiors: Queen Marrisith, Vicereine Cadaeth?
Natural Allies: Middenland, Cult of Ulric, Eonir, Ulthuan?
Relevant Opposers: Cult of Sigmar, Nordland

Jurisdiction: Marienburg
Superiors: The Directorate
Natural Allies: Marienburg, Baron Henryk's College of Navigation and Sea Magicks, Great Library of Verena, Ulthuan?
Relevant Opposers: None?

We've got enough reputation with the dwarves to bring them on-side, but we will need elves there for this if we want to get anything done.
 
DragonParadox said:
It's worth beeping in mind these are the people who came up with cannons on ships (because they are not Bretonian soil)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You know, what's the actual source on this?

Like, not the "there's cannons on Bretonnian ships" bit, because that's from Man O'War of course*, but the story about the Duke of Bordelaux putting cannons on his ships because he reasoned "guns are only banned in the land of Bretonnia, this is the sea". Because I've seen that story thrown around the fandom before (I've done it myself) but I've never actually read a book that had that. A while back I assumed it was from Knights of the Grail, but then I actually read it and didn't see it in there.

So I've just been wondering where this is from.

*And, given that Man O'War was in the 90s, would be operating in the period before 6th edition Bretonnia anyway


[X] Karak Eight Peaks
[X] Carcassone
 
Last edited:
guyfromtheplace1 said:
would you believe I'm actually leaning towards either of these two?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is mostly something i am saving for the actual vote for where do we want to go eventually, but i still have to pipe up. The elves will join in on this even if we are in K8P. The Eonir specifically asked us in our capacity as someone close to the dwarfs. Now, this heavily depends on if Dwarfs let it happen, but Belegar did not sound completely forbidding, so i have high hopes.
 
As of right now, I'm strongly leaning towards Laurelorn for my final choice. Belegar and Algard will be on-board either way, and we've got the Dwarf and College Rep and insider connections to get what we need from the Karaz Ankor and the Colleges of Magic either way - whereas the elves are the wildcard here, and getting their full cooperation will make-or-break this project. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, but unless the other places we look into offer something really spectacular above and beyond what I'm already anticipating, I'm probably going to go with the Eonir.
 
Yeah, I'm leaning away from the dwarfs because, although they have a lot of resources and infrastructure to help with the way stone project, we have the influence to pull them in on it no matter which option we choose, so at this stage we should be expanding the range and diversity of stakeholders in the project.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Yeah, I'm leaning away from the dwarfs because, although they have a lot of resources and infrastructure to help with the way stone project, we have the influence to pull them in on it no matter which option we choose, so at this stage we should be expanding the range and diversity of stakeholders in the project.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To some extent, yes, but it's a different story with runesmiths, who have a religious obligation to safeguard their lore. Every step away from a controlled dwarven context is something that will make securing meaningful assistance from that quarter harder, or make that assistance narrower in scope.

I expect we'll get the details when the vote closes and we see what gets looked into.
 
Andres110 said:
What it does is make it so the Asur are the only ones who can ship things from Marienburg to the New World (Lustria and Naggaroth) and the only ones who can ship things from the New World to Marienburg. The Asur can still trade directly with Bretonnia, can still ship things from the New World to Estalia, can still buy things from Marienburg and take them over to the Empire.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"The Merchant Houses of Westerland are named the exclusive agents of the Elfs of Ulthuan for all goods of the New World brought to the Old."


That means they can't trade New World goods outside of Marienburg without going to at least Araby. Arguably, it also includes Ulthuan, because whether Ulthuan is part of the New World or not has never actually been established, AFAIK.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
"The Merchant Houses of Westerland are named the exclusive agents of the Elfs of Ulthuan for all goods of the New World brought to the Old."


That means they can't trade New World goods outside of Marienburg without going to at least Araby. Arguably, it also includes Ulthuan, because whether Ulthuan is part of the New World or not has never actually been established, AFAIK.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's definitely not part of the Old World, though.
 
MooseHowl said:
[X] Karak Eight Peaks
[X] Stirland
[X] Praag

Eight Peaks is practical, as is Stirland. Stirland and Praag both have a notable need for magical-radiation cleanup. Praag is strange but intriguing to me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What makes Stirland practical?
It is not rich, it has no relevant expertice in the matter, and it lacks pre existing infra structure.
Only really practical thing about it i can think of is sympathetic elector count we like and who likes us.
 
BoneyM said:
Yikes. They're basically retconning the entire Treaty of Amity and Commerce into 'oh, the Elves? they've always been there, never left'. Yeah, no. Assume all 'Old World' stuff is completely non-canon.

I'm suddenly dreading the day when the wikis become overrun with this 'new canon' and I have to field a dozen questions a day based on information taken from them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They're not retconning the Treaty of Amity and Commerce at all. The Treaty that you and torroar have is entirely original - it's not Warhammer canon. I looked at the original 1e source where it shows up and it is not the same as what you two have it. The Treaty does not prevent the Asur from trading with non-Marienburg Old Worlders. What it does is make it so that Marienburg is the only place in the Old World that Asur can ship goods from the New World (Lustria and Naggaroth) to, and that Asur are the only ones who can ship things from Marienburg to the New World. The Asur can still trade directly with Bretonnia and can still buy things from Marienburg and take them over to the Empire, they can't ship things from the New World directly to Estalia.
WFRP 1e Marienburg: Sold Down the River, page 19

Every edition of WFRP - 2e included (see page 16 of the core book) - has Asur merchants buying, selling, and generally operating within the Empire itself. It has been a strong constant that the Asur trade directly with non-Marienburg Old Worlders throughout the whole history of Warhammer.

The new stuff that Old World seems to be introducing is the port cities, but it hasn't changed anything regarding the Treaty of Amity and Commerce and Asur trading directly with non-Marienburg Old Worlders.


I'd posted a similar version of this post earlier but it had an error so I deleted it, hoping I'd get this new version up before anyone responded to it. Alas, I was too slow.
 
Last edited:
Mopman43 said:
It's definitely not part of the Old World, though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
True, but if Ulthuan is part of the New World, then the Elves can't ship their own goods to anywhere other than Marienburg without breaking the Treaty. Now, I personally find that ridiculous, but then I find a lot of stuff from the RPG to be bad.
 
Fayhem said:
I'm not really that worried about the ambient Dhar, actually.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Addendum that I thought of; besides purging/warding options from the Colleges, we've got more than enough Dwarf Favor to get Runesmiths to put some wards up. We already know that runes are capable of providing extremely effective protection against Dhar.
Redshirt Army said:
As of right now, I'm strongly leaning towards Laurelorn for my final choice. Belegar and Algard will be on-board either way, and we've got the Dwarf and College Rep and insider connections to get what we need from the Karaz Ankor and the Colleges of Magic either way - whereas the elves are the wildcard here, and getting their full cooperation will make-or-break this project. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, but unless the other places we look into offer something really spectacular above and beyond what I'm already anticipating, I'm probably going to go with the Eonir.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This whole project was the Eonir's idea originally, and they specifically framed it as working with K8P. I think it's fair to treat their participation as a lock as well, regardless of whether they get to run the whole show. The tricky part with the Eonir won't be getting them to participate, it will be getting the dwarves to be enthusiastic/at least not recalcitrant about working with elgi, exemption from War of Vengeance bad feelings notwithstanding. And the dwarves will be a lot more likely to be comfortable with that if it's under the dwarves' control, or at least not directly under the elves.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I actually voted for Laurelorn at this stage myself. But I don't think it's correct to treat the Eonir's participation in the project as iffy and in need of convincing when they're literally the only party we already have a hard confirmation that they want to do this, nor do I believe it correct to suppose that dwarven buy-in can't meaningfully vary depending on options selected. You're not wrong that Algard does seem clearly on board, but he doesn't have the power to speak for the Colleges as a whole and the most likely relevant sources of expertise on Waystones in the Colleges are the Jades and Lights, not the Greys. And Belegar himself will back us up pretty near no matter what - but again, he's not in charge of all dwarves by a long shot.
 
Last edited:
Andres110 said:
They're not retconning the Treaty of Amity and Commerce at all. The Treaty that you and torroar have is entirely original - it's not Warhammer canon. I looked at the original 1e source where it shows up and it is not the same as what you two have it. The Treaty does not prevent the Asur from trading with non-Marienburg Old Worlders. What it does is make it so that Marienburg is the only place in the Old World that Asur can ship goods from the New World (Lustria and Naggaroth) to, and that Asur are the only ones who can ship things from Marienburg to the New World. The Asur can still trade directly with Bretonnia and can still buy things from Marienburg and take them over to the Empire, they ship things from the New World directly to Estalia.
WFRP 1e Marienburg: Sold Down the River, page 19

Every edition of WFRP - 2e included (see page 16 of the core book) - has Asur merchants buying, selling, and generally operating within the Empire itself. It has been a strong constant that the Asur trade directly with non-Marienburg Old Worlders throughout the whole history of Warhammer.

The new stuff that Old World seems to be introducing is the port cities, but it hasn't changed anything regarding the Treaty of Amity and Commerce and Asur trading directly with non-Marienburg Old Worlders.


I'd posted a similar version of this post earlier but it had an error so I deleted it, hoping I'd get this new version up before anyone responded to it. Alas, I was too slow.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I was referring to the historical event of the Ulthuan dramatically becoming a part of Old World diplomacy after millennia absent from the continent that seems to be being retconned, rather than the exact terms of the treaty. And there's a lot of room for interpretation in the treaty itself, because in the 1e era of 'Sea Elves' it definitely seemed like at least some of the time Ulthuan was considered part of the 'New World'.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top