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  • We never solved the Sylvanian problem (Dhar is still present, going to keep result in mysterious evils)
    • If you prefer Waystones, you maybe should consider Sylvania. Waystones will almost certainly require at least visiting Sylvania, if not a longer a stay.
    • Having read the Liber Mortis, we are possibly one of the few, if not only, Wizard capable of understanding the situation w/Dhar.

I'm going to call this out because this argument is one of my pet peeves that keeps coming up:

We have multiple statements from BoneyM that the only way to do waystone research is to do waystone research. There is no scenario where not choosing the waystone project lets us research the waystone project, and definitely no scenario where choosing a different option somehow provides better resources to study waystones than the actual project about studying waystones.
 
Ranked voting might win out over approval voting in a frictionless spherical void, but I'm of the opinion that a change in voting method would lead to people making mistakes or choosing not to vote altogether in enough numbers to more than counter any inherent increase in precision.

If we went Loremaster-At-Large would the format still be 1 turn = 6 months most of the time? Or would we essentially go on mini-adventures and interlude chapters for each major mission, with a normal turn in between for prep work and downtime?

Probably the former, but it would depend on the task at hand and how the thread decides to approach it.

Swamp Town will probably be available too at some point. Except if some other awesome LM or equivalent takes the job and does it well.

Even that will find takers eventually.

I assume canon Karl Franz having to fight for it quite a bit is just canon being inconsistent for the sake of drama? Makes sense to me.

Canon's Boris Todbringer was off winning great victories against Beastmen instead of getting entangled in Eonir politics and feuding with Nordland, which gave him enough heft to challenge even the adult son of an established Emperor. The Grand Duke of Talabecland is the current favourite pretty much by default, rather than because he has impressive deeds to his name.

Can guns be enchanted in Warhammer, and more emportantly enchanted en mass? In case we decide for Nuln, I mean.

They theoretically can, but gun enchantments need to be invented from scratch, as opposed to melee enchantments which have a long history. And there's no en masse enchantment anywhere in the setting, the bare minimum for any sort of enchantment is a month's effort from a skilled Wizard.
 
[ ] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland

Because to you know what is better than systematically removing Vampires, and necromancers from Sylvania? Doing so, and using the insight from the Libre Mortis to write all the books on how to counter their tricks, which gives Mathilde the opportunity to nod approvingly in the afterlife as the current generation of van Hals properly apply the knowledge she gave them to defeat the last round of wannabe vampire nobility.

Basically correct response to Alkharad's "You won't be around, and people will have forgotten me" is to write a library worth of books to insure the knowledge about them remains for when he comes calling the next time.

Also helping Kasmir with his gig seems like fun.
 
Well for one she is not who she claims to be and married him under a false name. There is an argument to be made that she is not even his wife.
That's a meta argument, and not even a good one given that exposing that IC gets us killed alongside her. At this point you're not just grasping at straws, you're trying to claw your way up to be able to grasp at them.
 
That's a meta argument, and not even a good one given that exposing that IC gets us killed alongside her. At this point you're not just grasping at straws, you're trying to claw your way up to be able to grasp at them.

It's not meta though, it is something Mathy knows IC. Given how deceptive Hedi has been 'infiltrator' is reasonable thing to call her even if we approve of her allegiance.
 
I wonder how a Markgrafin working under the Protector face works? Oh, our new Overlord is doing everything for purely noble reasons? That shouldn't work, right? Ranald is about defying authority, not empowering it.

Because if Protector works, that's one way to really dig into the Loyalty to the Vamps, and spread Ranalds faith. With each Vamp defeated, each village liberated, Sylvaila rep would grow. Then Mat would just have to follow through, and let the folks who aren't supporting Vamps pay their tax(which the EC Van Hal has told us point blank can be 0%) and we can wrest Sylvania from the Vamps, finally, forever.

Build a bunch of mini Town Charters, Mayors, and mini republics/whatever a Ranald in power structure under the Protector actually looks like.
 
I wonder how a Markgrafin working under the Protector face works? Oh, our new Overlord is doing everything for purely noble reasons? That shouldn't work, right? Ranald is about defying authority, not empowering it.
Protecting the common man, not tearing down authority. They work in parallel when the authority is oppressive but aren't the same thing.
 
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I wonder how a Markgrafin working under the Protector face works? Oh, our new Overlord is doing everything for purely noble reasons? That shouldn't work, right? Ranald is about defying authority, not empowering it.
Protector will work if we actually protect them.

If we kill a vamp the peasants get to learn how bad the vamp would've been and think we are selfless.
Both of which will help reduce cults to the vampires.
 
I wonder if, while obviously angry that they got robbed, Gork and Mork are still kinda happy that their power made the runt finally get into a PROPPA SCRAP, so its still a win for them.
 
Just because she approves does not mean she cannot recognize manipulation which the person I was originally replying to argued Hedi is not guilty is. She is though since her whole marriage is based on an elaborate lie and she is not who Lutipold thinks she is.
Heidi is no worse than the average Noble. Arguably better than most since she is at least competent.
 
I wonder how a Markgrafin working under the Protector face works? Oh, our new Overlord is doing everything for purely noble reasons? That shouldn't work, right? Ranald is about defying authority, not empowering it.

Because if Protector works, that's one way to really dig into the Loyalty to the Vamps, and spread Ranalds faith. With each Vamp defeated, each village liberated, Sylvaila rep would grow. Then Mat would just have to follow through, and let the folks who aren't supporting Vamps pay their tax(which the EC Van Hal has told us point blank can be 0%) and we can wrest Sylvania from the Vamps, finally, forever.
Ranald has nothing against Rulers, just crual ones.

and we just learned with the 'your a dwarf mathy' thing that the protector doest feel the need for 100% honestly In how it depicts 'heroic'.
 
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Well for one she is not who she claims to be and married him under a false name. There is an argument to be made that she is not even his wife.
Does the ceremony define who your wife is, or is the woman you think of as your wife actually your wife regardless of the validity of the wedding ceremony? Does a fake name in the ceremony invalidate the wedding? Does actually being Noble matter if you can act the part to fool everyone?

Nobles would say yes, but in reality i would say that unless Heidi stops acting the part, she is the woman she claims she is, regardless of her pedigree.

Besides, Heidi is not a complete sociopath: she loves her son, and is at least fond of Luitpold. She too has some degree of Divided loyalties, between Ranald, Herself and Her family. Ranald got her to where she is, but I doubt he would have such an easy time getting her to move again. It's a very comfy spot that she is unlikely to tire of any time soon.
 
Heidi is kind of bad, but not all bad, and even kind of good, and I think it would be fun to have a boss where are meetings could be described as "conspiring". I like the idea of being something of a moral compass for her in a way that Belegar or Roswita (for example) don't need. That may not appeal to everyone, but it's a different kind of relationship.

Also, something I want to call out is that Heidi was quite serious about wanting to have someone she trusts and who is skilled in infiltration in charge of Mandred's security. It won't be the most AP-intensive part of our task, but it will be an important part of the task. There are people out there who would very much like for little Mandred not to grow up. There will be a sober, serious side of watching the watchmen and keeping an eye on palace security, with people really reporting to us.

Also, the tutoring part will be real as well, eventually. Again, I don't expect it will be the most AP-intensive part of the job, but it sure would be nice to have a future Emperor who thinks wizards are cool, the alliance with the Karaz Ankor is of vital importance, and Ranald is a legit god.

All of this combined with exciting troubleshooting missions. I think that's where the Bodyguard job really differs from Loremaster-at-Large. If we keep working for Belegar he'll pat her head once in a while, and I know ya'll love headpats, but I expect much less back-and-forth and plotting of strategy and discussion of religion and morality. That's not his style and even for a pretty good friend like us, Belegar only bares his soul once every few years or so. Heidi I get the impression is kind of desperate for someone she can talk to, brag to, and bounce ideas off of.
 
Tier 1 - My current favorites:

Waystone Project:
Pros:
It fits very well with the frontrunners for the Boon and Great Deed votes, it keeps us productively in K8P, it bangs our head against a cool mystery, it lets us interact with interesting new and old characters in an interesting context.
Cons:
It could potentially become very Ivory Tower. It doesn't allow for too much variety. It might be an eternal job with very slow results and little epic payoff.

Mandred's Tutor:
Pros:
Imperial politics. Fun with Heidi. Get to influence the prince of Reikland and potential frontrunner for next emperor. Clear deadline for when the job is done and we either get a promotion or do something new. Stepping stone to being on Mandred's Council.
Cons:
Safe job with little in the way of interaction with the supernatural. Probably very little travel outside Imperial borders. Heidi's catspaw. Mandred's Council won't be a thing for maybe many decades. Distance from K8P and Panoramia.

Ambassador-at-Large:
Pros:
Imperial Politics. Official and high government position with high potential for collusion and Divided Loyalties™, funneling info to Heidi, the Grey College, the EIC, Belegar and who knows to who else. We're gonna be like a sieve. It's gonna be so much fun. Stepping stone to a position on the Emperor's Council, even before/without Mandred's ascension. Influence on Dawi culture.
Cons:
Headaches and in-thread fights when we have to decide how to deal with Empire/Karaz Ankor conflicts of interest. Decent amount of scrutiny by direct superior. Demanding job might leave little time for side projects.

Tier 2 - I'm fine with these:

Loremaster-at-Large:
Pros:
Remain with King Belegar and in K8P during downtime. Fun with Dwarves. Interaction with Thorgrim and other Dawi Kings. Influence on Dawi culture at large. Little upset to our current pace and routine regarding all of our side projects. Will probably be able to retain our current staff and Ducklings.
Cons:
Hogging Loremaster position.

Spymaster of Wissenland:
Pros:
From an IC standpoint it seems like the most urgent and important assignment. Skaven can be fun. We are an expert in the field. Still has connections to Imperial Politics. Still has connections of interest to Dwarves and K8P.
Cons:
Not feeling like Skaven right now. Physical distance from K8P and Panoramia. Not much time or budget for magical research.

Tier 3 - I can see the appeal and wouldn't complain:

Markgraf of Eastern Stirland:
Pros:
Power fantasy, but within a useful and familiar context. Meet back up with old friends and resources. Wizard as ruler in the Empire is a nice precedent to set. Physical vicinity to the EIC/Canal plotline.
Cons:
Classic form CK2 quest does not set an interesting OOC precedent for the larger SV questing culture. Demanding job with little time for escapades. Lots of delegation and management of nobles. Sylvania is always a threat, but currently low on concrete big name enemies. Our job will be mostly cleanup duty. Physical distance from K8P.

Count of Sylvania:
Pros:
Power fantasy, but within a useful and familiar context. Meet back up with old friends and resources. Hereditary Wizard as ruler in the Empire is an even nicer precedent to set. Can found a lasting dynasty. More personal freedom than the Markgraf.
Cons:
Classic form CK2 quest does not set an interesting OOC precedent for the larger SV questing culture. Sylvania is always a threat, but currently low on concrete big name enemies. Our job will be mostly cleanup duty. Physical distance from K8P. No really clear purpose to the job, let alone a purpose that Mathilde would be best-in-slot to fulfill. Looks more like self-agrandizement than making ourselves useful.

Research Sabatical:
Pros:
Take a break and more time to think. Complete all the stuff we left lying around. Fully focus on our Boon/Deeds rewards if we want. Stay in K8P, but also move around with absolute freedom.
Cons:
I know that this isn't true, but it feels like throwing all of these interesting job ideas BoneyM gave us back into his face. Trading the current options for a potentially poorer list of offers in the future.

Tier 4 - I'd rather do something else, but I'll vote for it in a pinch:

Border Princess:
Pros:
Absolute power fantasy. Building Mathilde, the Nation. Decent support from multiple sides gives us an above average starting position, given the circumstances. Close proximity to K8P.
Cons:
Classic form CK2 quest does not set an interesting OOC precedent for the larger SV questing culture. Building anything in the Border Princes seems like building on quicksand to me. Being overrun by a Waaagh and surviving while our loyal subjects all don't will be devastating both IC and OOC. Might entice us to use the Boon/Deeds for something either impermanent or ruinous to Belegar.

High Priestess:
Pros:
Large amounts of freedom. Interacting with a different part of BoneyM's vast setting. Is a hat we will be able to wear secondary to a new hat once we do the groundwork in Kislev.
Cons:
Not very interested in Kislev. Big distance to all the things I currently care about (except Kurgan anthropology). Ranald gains significant power over us that he might abuse.

Sinecure:
Pros:
Just continue playing the current Quest under the current conditions. Has combined partial pros from Research Sabbatical, Waystone Project and Loremaster-At-Large. Fewer crisis flashpoints means more time for our own projects.
Cons:
Mathilde is too young to slack off. QM personally states worry that this might become boring. Don't want to burden Belegar.

Tier 5 - Not gonna vote for it.

Nagarythe:
Pros:
Short term mission we want to eventually do anyway. Unprecedented opportunities to study Elven Ulgu magic. Potential to cultivate lasting contacts and resources in Ulthuan, the most advanced Order culture in our reach.
Cons:
Can do at any time, including by taking a half-turn holiday in whatever other job we choose. Don't feel up to going on another three month expedition right after the last one. Trading the current options for a potentially poorer list of offers in the future.

Swamp Town:
Pros:
Fresh new world, I guess. Very little day-today oversight from anyone at all. Can let inner colonist tyrant out. Lizardmen stuff. Slaan stuff.
Cons:
Too many to list. The kind of job I'd offer Mathilde if I were part of a conspiracy to get rid of her pesky meddling. The Lhamians probably have Vampire Coast contacts to kill us if we ever want to come back.

After reading the last two chapters and more of the discussion than I usually take the time to, my tier list has moved a bit.

Waystone Project - Down a tier. Technically it should have moved down two tiers but all my tier 2 options moved up, leaving it empty. More to that later. The reason for this movement is the argument that this job is the least likely to run away. Coupled with Loremaster-at-Large becoming more appealing (which means WP isn't my favorite stay in K8P option anymore) and many of the minor arguments made by others against it, it's just not up there anymore for me, at least not right now.

Mandred's Tutor - Should move down one tier, but instead merges into a new tier 1 with the previous tier 2 options. Still a fan of going full Imperial Politics and of molding Mandred, but Heidi somehow managed to make her pitch really unappealing to me. Going on political campaign seems so... bana and unimaginativel, especially when compared to everything else.

Ambassador-at-Large - We didn't see anything about this (which makes me very sad), but it is still getting my pity vote regardless, no matter what. That makes it technically tier 1.

Loremaster-at-Large - Moving up to tier 1. Belegar is a bro. His pitch showed enough enthusiastic energy that I'm not worried about "hogging" the Loremaster position anymore. Who knows, a mix of heavy multiculturalism and less reliance on legalism might actually be good for the Karak. Another reason is that Belegar might spend quite some time thinking about the revelation we gave him and I'd like us to be around to support him with whatever conclusion he arrives at.

Spymaster of Wissenland - Moving up to tier 1. I already felt like this is the most urgent assignment that can't get a better fit than Mathilde to do it, but on top of that the local EC has charmed me and the job perks are also really cushy. I'm already fantasizing of spending a lot of money and favor to actually restore the ancient Dwarven Fortress, with oversight of the local Dwarven community of course. Then we add a tower and modernize the downwards defenses and feel all smug about it.

All tier 3 options become tier 2 options. My opinions didn't change here. Waystones just dropped far enough to not be able to carry a tier 2 on their own.

Border Princess - Moves alone to the no vacant tier 3. I flirted with the idea and I'm sure I'd have fun with it, but in the end I don't feel like trying to make an enduring sandcastle. I'd rather spend my energy convincing thread members to do morally dubious political skullduggery than spending it convincing them to do morally dubious conquest maneuvers.

High Priestess - Remains where it is instead of moving up. Not getting investigated really didn't help its cause.

Sinecure - Moved down to the "not gonna vote for" bottom tier. It would be dumb if we end up here instead of any of the other options. I can't even justify keeping it a tier higher than Swamp Town anymore. At least there we'd still have fun and make a decent subsection of the voter base happy.

Nagarythe - Moves up to tier 4 with High Priestess. I really don't feel like it right after Dum, but at least it doesn't do much damage to all of the other cool possibilities that BoneyM showed us, even if we'll have to wait for quite some time IRL.

Swamp Town - Remains Swamp Town. Though I could see myself being more favorable on it at some point in the far future, when we switch from whatever we choose now to doing the Waystone Project until even that gets stale enough that we make someone else the director and instead "go to look for clues" in Swamp Town. So... a couple of IRL years?
 
Heidi is no worse than the average Noble. Arguably better than most since she is at least competent.
Whether she is force of good for the empire doesn't change that she is pretending to be someone else and manipulating Luitpold.

No one is saying that we should expose her, but just because her and Mathilde are somewhat allied doesn't mean that Heidi is some saint.
 
I'd advise operating under the assumption that none of the roles will be available in the future, outside of Elfcation/Waystone/Sabbatical.
Just checking, while I completely understand the reasoning that we should assume these important and dynamic roles in the running of empires will not be hold open for us for a unknown number of years, I'd assumed that more or less the same options would still be available on the other side of Elfcation since thats just 100 days. Is that assumption fair or, no these are too important for that.
The Elector Counts don't automatically begrudge that power (though it's possible some might) because it's the power they want their dynasty to have. What would be the point of being able to put your dynasty on the throne if you could only do so by making the position powerless?
"I'm not an Elector-Count, I'm a temporarily embarrassed Emperor"
 
Who can do this remotely as well as us?

I assure you that that high intrigue isn't a Mathilde exclusive trait. And did we not write the Queekish book and Winning the War Below so others will become just as capable in fighting skaven?

If we choose it we will be the best for the job, but definitely not the only one capable of doing it.
 
Just checking, while I completely understand the reasoning that we should assume these important and dynamic roles in the running of empires will not be hold open for us for a unknown number of years, I'd assumed that more or less the same options would still be available on the other side of Elfcation since thats just 100 days. Is that assumption fair or, no these are too important for that.
Elfcation is the exception, yes.
 
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