Such as breaking the vow of poverty?
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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Define 'break' and 'poverty'? We could at the very least get them to argue their case in dwarf court. Would be a sight to behold not doubt about it.
tapkomet
Senātus Populusque Rōmānus
- Location
- Ukraine
Yeah, such as that.
Optimistically , I suspect we'll get a stern talking-to and have to pay a fine before they go full assasssination over something as minor as opportunistically running a trade route, seeing as this would be our first offense. This is not an endorsement of doing it though. If we ever violate our vows, or the Articles, it better be for a damn good reason... And if we ever need money for a damn good reason, we can just ask Belegar, who happens to have infinite money and thinks we're the best thing since Bugman's ale.
- Location
- Finland
The route to surviving pissing of Grey College to a point where assassination becomes a solution is to go far enough that they can't reach you.
Which basicly means Ind or Cathay, or Nippon, get couple national borders between you and the empire, and hope for the best.
Karaz Ankor makes it harder for them to get to you, but not hard enough.
And anything that would make Gray College go after Mathilde's head would likely cause lot of issues with dwarves as well, so any protection from there could be limited as well.
Which basicly means Ind or Cathay, or Nippon, get couple national borders between you and the empire, and hope for the best.
Karaz Ankor makes it harder for them to get to you, but not hard enough.
And anything that would make Gray College go after Mathilde's head would likely cause lot of issues with dwarves as well, so any protection from there could be limited as well.
- Location
- Spain
This is true for now, but since Boney has said that once we came back from the expedition and we decide how to spend the Boon (and very likely both Great Deeds) we will need to make great readjustments to our actions and half actions, including the Golds, the Duckling Club, and the EIC, this may not be the case for too long.
Soon, we may end up releasing the control of the EIC totally, or we may want to integrate part of the EIC on the Research Center/Branch College to help us with headhunting talents for our new projects, or we may want to recover the economic Aspects of the EIC to use that money to fund more research, hire more researchers or buy the appropriate materials/oddities for research... So it is not really that much of an immaterial discussion, since (unless Mathilde dies on her way back to K8P) this will be relevant in very few turns.
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Yeah, fair point. Thank you for pointing that out. I probably should have pointed out that we'd have a hard limit to the supplies we could carry and argued from that point, but I didn't. Oops
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Why are we worried about the Grey College hypothetically killing us for violating the Vow? First they'd have to find out we violated it, hard to do see we are the grey college for all intents and purposes AND live as far from imperial presence as you can get without leaving. They would first ask our perpetual and he'd fork over records of a trading company in perfect compliance with every tax and even going out of the way to help others. If they still decided we were sus, they'd need to claw out Ap from a lord magister to come investigate us. And then they'd have one chance to deal with us perfectly. Any fuck-ups will unleash a diplomatic shit storm from the dwarfs and they'd better have ironclad evidence to nail us. Does this sound like a problem the greys want to deal with? Are we going to be flagrant enough to force them to?
- Location
- Utrecht
It's the flavour of the day's thread madness. Nothing to worry about.
- Location
- Greece
The pseudo vikings worship evil eldrich abominations. Everyone in the world worships eldrich abominations by default/definition.
The greys are considered to be the strictest with the oaths in canon. You break them? you die.
Now, this quest kind of softened that a litle, by letting people have loopholes and by strongly implying that at least some of this reputation is made up/a honeypot for blackmailers/ an excuse for people to "die" and assume different intentity, but if the oath is breached outright, they go for the kill, right away. They may* give us a trial in order to not cause a huge incident with the dawi and because we are in good standing, rather than deciding it behind closed door and letting us learn it when they kill us, but that is all, guilty means marked to die.
*keyword being may, as in its not certain they will
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- Location
- Spain
Better to get used to it, with such a one-sided vote and Boney occupied with farm sitting, we are going to have lots and lots of thread Madness on the coming days...
- Location
- Finland
People started talking about doing some commerce, vow of poverty was brought up, some people went "we could take them", other people went "no we could not", and it went from there.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
I don't think Ranald's an eldritch abomination. He's more of an eldritch omination
- Location
- Greece
Funny thing is, almost everyone* seems to agree that we shouldn't do it, we are just arguing about the odds.
And its not even 2 teams, that seems reductionist, as I have seen at leat 4 different opinions about the odds ( summarised: "its easy" "its a coin toss" "its hard but doable if we are lucky and lay low" and "its a death sentence ") so it feels kind of reductionist to divide between the "we could take them" and the "no we could not"
* @Omegahugger clause as usual, but the motives thereof are different.
Eh, fair, I have been using the tvtropes definition so often I forgot that the abomination part of the phrase carries certain implications that aren't true for all beings fitting the definition.
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This is a matter of not wanting to try it and find out. Mathilde knows of people who went "meh, I can take her" on the bursar.
- Location
- Greece
- Location
- Finland
I was not trying to make a dissertation about the debate, just describe how we got here on broad strokes.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
No, but she has gotten 10 Great Deeds.But has she retrieved 2 Karaks tho? (
- Location
- Germany
About the whole "breaking the VoP" thing, didn't we have some words of Boney over time that the Grey College is not nearly as absolute in its punishments as it makes most outsiders (and apprentices) believe?
There is stuff like paying a fine, being banished from Altdorf or sometimes the Empire and other options.
They are very unlikely to escalate towards trying to kill Mathilde as long as they have literally any other options.
After all even at the very best that costs them a Lady Magister and it's much more likely that they will take a higher cost in ressources and personel until we are actually dead.
Our particular situation makes both fines and banishment very appealing options, those keep up the appearance of punishing everyone for transgressions, while also not being something that could realistically turn Mathilde against them.
There is stuff like paying a fine, being banished from Altdorf or sometimes the Empire and other options.
They are very unlikely to escalate towards trying to kill Mathilde as long as they have literally any other options.
After all even at the very best that costs them a Lady Magister and it's much more likely that they will take a higher cost in ressources and personel until we are actually dead.
Our particular situation makes both fines and banishment very appealing options, those keep up the appearance of punishing everyone for transgressions, while also not being something that could realistically turn Mathilde against them.
- Location
- Earth
I have been inspired to start a table about our income/possessions and the justification we use for each of them.Define 'break' and 'poverty'? We could at the very least get them to argue their case in dwarf court. Would be a sight to behold not doubt about it.
First have the applicable Vow and the Loopholes we use.
Article 1 | Article 11 | Oath of Poverty |
1. The first obedience of every Magister must be to the ideals and laws of Sigmar's Holy Empire of which these Articles form a part; then to he who is rightfully elected Emperor of Sigmar's Holy Empire; then to the Supreme Patriarch of the Colleges of Magic; then to the laws and ideals of their Order; then to the Patriarch of their Order; then to the authorities that each Magister may be required to serve in the course of his duties; then to other superiors within their Orders. | 11. All Magisters may expect to receive accommodation, benefits, respect, and fair treatment, as would befit any noble of Sigmar's Holy Empire, while in the employ of the Electors of Sigmar's Holy Empire. | All Shadowmancers must take vows of poverty and are not permitted to accumulate property or wealth not of direct and practical use to their cause. |
The other "loophole" and the one we make the most use of is "of direct and practical use to their cause".
Mathilde regularly campaigns all over. Any armor and weapons are therefor of direct and practical use.
Mathilde regularly tackles mysteries. Which justifies our Library and Laboratories (Wizard's Tower)
Income/Property | Justification | Amount | Known to Bursar |
EIC | Spynetwork/Direct and practical use | 350 crowns/a | X |
Loremaster | Article 11 | 120 gc/a | X |
The Weber Estate | Dame/Article 11 | 100 crowns/a | X |
Staff of Mistery | Direct and practical use | Action + 250gc worth Dragonbone | X |
Runic Greatsword | Direct and practical use | 25 Dwarf Favours | X(partially) |
Dwarven Revolvers | Direct and practical use | 250gc | X |
Marksdwarf Pistol | Direct and practical use | 75gc | X |
Grounding Rod | Direct and practical use | 2 Favours | X |
Armoured Robes | Direct and practical use | Enchanting Actions | X |
Seed of Regrowth | Direct and practical use | 9 Favours | X |
Belt of the Unshackled Mountain | Direct and practical use | 15 Dwarf Favours | |
Ranald's Coin | Direct and practical use | Our take from mugging Mork/Gork | |
Candle of Cleansing Radiance | Direct and practical use | 5 College Favours | X |
Dragonflask | Direct and practical use | 20 College Favours | X |
Library | Direct and practical use | 16100gc not including favour cost | X |
Home in K8P in general | Direct and practical use/Article 11 | a couple thousand gc | |
Wizards Tower | Direct and practical use | 1 Eye of Gazul + extras | X |
Coin Collection | What She Doesn't Know | historical | |
Liber Mortis | No Justification Possible | Invaluable | No armies sent against us yet, they likely don't know. |
Honestly the hardest thing to justify would be our Coin Collection and we might get away with "Of historic value" or downtime enjoyment like with the romance books as long as it's kept subtle.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
I think we've justified the coin collection as a historic research interest.
- Location
- Greece
I have been inspired to start a table about our income/possessions and the justification we use for each of them.
First have the applicable Vow and the Loopholes we use.
The interesting Point here is that Article 1 says that the other Articles supersede any laws and ideals of their Order, which means Article 11 supersedes the Oath of Poverty
The other "loophole" and the one we make the most use of is "of direct and practical use to their cause".
Mathilde regularly campaigns all over. Any armor and weapons are therefor of direct and practical use.
Mathilde regularly tackles mysteries. Which justifies our Library and Laboratories (Wizard's Tower)
Honestly the hardest thing to justify would be our Coin Collection and we might get away with "Of historic value" or downtime enjoyment like with the romance books as long as it's kept subtle.
I do have some disagreements here...
Favour, benefits from favour, anything we make or enchant ourselves and divine artifacts aren't contrary to the oath and require no justification. Same technically goes for the Liber Mortis, the pretext to kill us would be the article about studying dark magic, not the VoP.
And the coin collection is secret for reasons other than the Bursar. As it really exists for the purpose of being displayed to museums and being studied, it is akin to books rather than currency. Moreover, it belongs to K8P, not us.
- Location
- Finland
Which is why we ain't dead right now.
But we did get an invitation from the bursar where she told us not to go fishing, which lot of the thread seem eager to do in the name of shinies, as long as there is any degree of deniability to it.
We can accumulate wealth, to a degree, but we need to keep it subtle, and pointed to useful purpose.
Noble who makes a vow of poverty is generally expected to keep it.I have been inspired to start a table about our income/possessions and the justification we use for each of them.
First have the applicable Vow and the Loopholes we use.
The interesting Point here is that Article 1 says that the other Articles supersede any laws and ideals of their Order, which means Article 11 supersedes the Oath of Poverty
So as a magister who has made a vow of poverty, we are expected to act like a noble who has taken the vow of poverty.
Or atleast look like we are to a casual onlooker.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Yeah the reason the coin collection is secret is because Belegar hasn't found a good way to have "found" it yet, since he doesn't want it known he decided to cut the gordian knot and just melt all the old coins from three-thousand-year-fallen civilizations.
Once he comes up with a good excuse for it it's going to be found in some hidden alcove.
Once he comes up with a good excuse for it it's going to be found in some hidden alcove.
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I'm pretty sure the collection belongs to Mathilde at this point, the worth of it is trivial to Belegar and not worth even the small chance of questions it could raise, whereas when Mathilde eventually reveals it it's just one more weird thing she found in her adventures somewhere.
Have they not been scrapped yet?
I wonder, if we decided to go poke Numas, and that's a big if, should we take another look at them through that lens?
Or did you just mean the small, broad sampling from the hoard? I'm a little fuzzy on what happened there, I ought to go re-read.