I disagree with a lot of the stuff you said but most of it at least has some shades of grey, this though is pure fantasy. No, neither she nor the company will be able dominate one of the biggest trade cashcows in existence. It's an incredibly tempting pie with quite a few significant stakeholders expecting their cut, even just significantly expanding the share she has interests in would take quite a bit more than just a few actions.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I disagree with a lot of the stuff you said but most of it at least has some shades of grey, this though is pure fantasy. No, neither she nor the company will be able dominate one of the biggest trade cashcows in existence. It's an incredibly tempting pie with quite a few significant stakeholders expecting their cut, even just significantly expanding the share she has interests in would take quite a bit more than just a few actions.
- Location
- France
@Nurgle, not only do I think your entire plan is unfeasible for a whole bunch of reasons (mostly the opposition being freakishly strong and motivated to see us fail while we'd be operating from a position of weakness), it's also OOC. Mathilde isn't a Stewardship hero. She's not motivated to do that sort of thing. She doesn't have the required knowledge of economics to even think of the theories you're referring to - at best she could think "peaceful farmers is better than raiders, I wish it were even vaguely possible for that to work in this context".
It's also a complete waste of her talents. There is an unknown (but probably large) number of more skilled administrators and merchants among humans and Dawi, but there are only a handful of other Grey Lords and Ladies Magisters.
It's also a complete waste of her talents. There is an unknown (but probably large) number of more skilled administrators and merchants among humans and Dawi, but there are only a handful of other Grey Lords and Ladies Magisters.
Ok I disagree. We already have people who run the company, we have people take care of the day to day, and Mathilde has again access to a workforce of educated people who are loyal to the empire. There are 3 overland trade routes right now to the east. The High Pass will be controlled by Karak Vlad who Mathilde saved. Death pass already has the EIC dominating it. Mad dog pass will soon be brought under Barak Varr and the white wolves.
Look all I am saying is Mathilde uses her knowledge of future trading to tell her friends and help open doors political for them. The Empress is now per of the company. She has such high dawi reputation she was declared a dawi.
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- Location
- France
Note that right now the trade routes are dominated by absolutely nobody. Trying to run them is effectively a suicide mission, so it's mostly done by various independents trying to strike it rich. Various people make bank from the traders who pass through their lands, but the traders themselves aren't part of any single group/power.
Barak Varr would likely make a lot more money by letting the pass be used by anyone willing to pay instead of helping the EIC dominate it - it's obviously more lucrative for them to incentivize as much use as possible and to bargain with multiple competing stakeholders instead of a single monopolist.
Why exactly should Barak Varr let the EIC dominate the trade route? We have a Transcendent favour from Belegar, not from them.
Barak Varr would likely make a lot more money by letting the pass be used by anyone willing to pay instead of helping the EIC dominate it - it's obviously more lucrative for them to incentivize as much use as possible and to bargain with multiple competing stakeholders instead of a single monopolist.
It's not a waste of her talents. She knows the empress and has been declared a dawi, she can easily get favorable deals. But while there are better stewards the empire and the dawi are not above nepotism.
She does have the knowledge of attacking enemies through economics. She literally attending a medieval Ted talk on it. On top of dominating trade it would also be a good way to spy on enemies of the empire.
We are kind of in the wrong corner of the Old World to care about Norsca.
And what I'm saying is you're trivializing the difficulty of the things you suggest. As an example you say things like "Bring Marienburg back into the fold and execute their leadership" as if that's just a thing that can be accomplished rather than one of the main political issues of the empire at the moment. Or "Mad Dog Pass will soon be under control" when all that's currently been done is some grumbling in Barak Varr about possibilities and one dude thinking it would be cool if this is how it went down.
- Location
- France
This is wrong. She attended a medieval Ted talk about the utility of embargoes against vampires, and that's it. You're suggesting something completely different, based on a downright anachronistic view of the economy (remember what era this setting mirrors!), and which entirely relies on institutions and practices which don't exist.
You're read Freakonomics (good for you! It's a fun book!), and now you're doing the Econ 101 mistake of assuming that a postulate is true in every context. It isn't. Freakonomics is about our world, our culture, and our environment. The world of today is significantly more individualistic, flexible, and "pro free-entreprise" than pseudo-Viking tribes at the edge of the world. It took a lot of work to create the environment and society Freakonomics is talking about, and Norsca is still centuries off (if it even develops in that direction - I think it won't).
EDIT: And you're assuming that Freakonomics is correct, which may not be true.
My memories of Econ classes say my teachers didn't consider it a worthwhile source for anything beyond interesting anecdotes and maybe some academic vulgarisation. IIRC the model of human decisionmaking used in that book is sometimes so simplified that it's downright wrong - althought it's been ten years since I've read Freakonomics, so forgive me for not going into detail there. I'm sure you'll find better reviews if you google it.
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- Location
- Finland
Keeps their word?
You don't hire a goblin, or eshin, you manipulate the situation so that the goblin, or eshin, is in a position to do what comes naturally to them.
Well what comes naturally to a goblin changes from moment to moment depending on what mushrooms they sniffed and what holy visions they had and what mad ambitions they had last night. What comes naturally to an Eshin is so complex you would have to be some kind of Skaven-whisperer to guess what that is almost like some kind of College expert on... oh wait.
The pseudo-Vikings also worship eldritch abominations. Really it's a credit to Marienburg's century long effort that they have gotten even some of the tribes to be peaceful most of the time
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Mount an expedition and find out?
I agree that the College assassinating Mathilde is far from impossible, but it's also by no means a sure thing. Dwarfs have successfully protected against Skaven assassination attempts for a very long time. The real danger would come from traveling.
Bring friends, it's kind of hard to remove a hand when you're busy dying from the belt's damage reflect.
On the matter of Eastern trade - the only way I'd support it is as an EIC action. High risk, high reward, and I'm not even sure what we'd do with the gold. Dig an airship hangar if we decide to go with a flying Ironclad? Spend it on aftermarket parts? Hire full time retainers for expeditionary purposes?
- Location
- Finland
Mathilde may be the foremost expert on the Skaven (or not, we really don't know what kind of specialities college has), but thanks to queekish dictionary, i bet they are about to have few more.
And the point remains, just because our belt would kill who ever kills us, does not make us untouchable, Grey College can use expendable resources, assuming they don't just accept loss of another magister to be worth killing us.
Any pissing match with the college, we will loose.
- Location
- France
In any case even if we did try Nurgle's plan, step 1 would be "become immortal to have any hope of seeing results within our lifetime".
That's a goal I expect the thread to vote for at some point anyway, so let's discuss the feasibility of the rest of the plan when we've stopped ageing!
That's a goal I expect the thread to vote for at some point anyway, so let's discuss the feasibility of the rest of the plan when we've stopped ageing!
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
This discussion is immaterial because we specifically gave up control of the EIC's economic aspects.
Economic intervention was an option. We picked a different option. I am a big believer in economic rapprochement to normalize relations between people! But that's not our circus. Someone else can pick that up, if they want to give it a go. We decided Mathilde's focus was elsewhere.
- Location
- Norway
Ehhhh... individualistic yes, but I think if you're a Norscan who wants to start a bakery, the only thing in your way is likely to be the chieftain wanting his cut of taxes. If you want to start a bakery in the world of today, there's zoning regulations and construction permits and health inspectors and licensing and so forth on top of the taxes.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
The best way to make money off of the Silk Road is to be like Barak Varr. It follows the same principle of how you make money in a gold rush- be the one selling shovels.
I doubt there's much value in funding caravans compared to making money off of the caravans.
I doubt there's much value in funding caravans compared to making money off of the caravans.
- The GM confirmed that as far as Lady Magister Mathilde knows we are the Skaven expert
- All the Black Magisters currently in existence: *still breathing*
- Location
- Finland
1. There's a major loophole there.
Also, The expert, as in, the foremost, that does not mean there are no other magisters knowledgeable about skaven, even more so now with queekish dictionary.
2. Not omnipotent, one of the biggest limitations being lack of people, forcing them to prioritize.
Lady Magister going rogue would be fairly high priority i suspect.
Not to mention that not all black magisters are necessarily on the kill list, some are just people who need to lay low, or go outside the empire, until the heat dies down and they can quietly be readmitted into the college.
Again, we are not able to take on the Grey College.
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And the already established baker wanting to cut your throat to get rid of competition.
Also probably need to get a proper oven, setting up a supply chain for flour, other stuff like that.
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Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
While true, I would like to point out that just because a Black Magister is no longer breathing doesn't neccesarily mean they've ceased to be a threat.
I mean when our good friend Horstman, former Patriarch of the Light College went not just rogue but Chaos there was a distinct lack of Grey Magisters coming back with his head a week later. No matter the priority some things are genuinely beyond them. Am I saying Mathilde would inevitably slip the noose, no, in fact I don't give her good odds of doing so, but poor odds are still better than none.
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- Location
- Finland
Not canon to this quest, also terrible writing.
And few steps past where we are i suspect.
Sure, we might, might, make it out alive if Grey college makes it a priority to take us out.
We also might make it if we tried to assassinate the Pheonix King at his thrown.
There is a point where the odds are so low that effectively one might as well not consider it unless absolutely necessary, it is not absolutely necessary for us to be stupid and piss off the college for few extra coins we don't need.
- Location
- Utrecht
Didn't the guy escape on a chaos dragon and go directly to the chaos wastes?
Kind of hard to follow.
... wait, we do have Cython...
are we the baddies?
Never said it was, I was just considering what our odds are as a thought experiment. I don't really agree with your estimation of how likely we are to make it out alive. I don't think the 180 old College has any hope of matching the Phoenix King's 5000 year old guard when it comes to their areas of expertise.
tapkomet
Senātus Populusque Rōmānus
- Location
- Ukraine
I personally think the Grey College would find it somewhat challenging to assassinate Mathilde, particularly if Dwarfs are still on her side. So it's best that we not do anything that Dwarfs would see as oathbreaking.
Also, it kinda seems to me like trading with Norscans is already a thing Marienburg and Nordlanders do, no? I certainly don't see us changing that too much. Especially as the voters are constantly split between those desiring adventure, and magic research...You will note neither involves a trade focus.
Also, it kinda seems to me like trading with Norscans is already a thing Marienburg and Nordlanders do, no? I certainly don't see us changing that too much. Especially as the voters are constantly split between those desiring adventure, and magic research...You will note neither involves a trade focus.
Also we live at the opposite end of the Old World. Seriously just because we are passing through Norsca now does not mean we are going to have the attention to spare for them later. We have a lot of other things to occupy our time, including economic projects if that is your jam.