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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Asheram said:
Because there's a difference between Chaos Dwarves and chaos dwarves.
These might be the only one on this side of the planet that we could have a chance to speak openly with.
Doubly so with all the Rune Lords stuff.

I'm pondering if this beastman is similar to K8P's golem, with runes inscribed on its soul. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a Dwarf, living or dead, that's 'piloting' it
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OK, why do we want to speak to servant of the Ruinous Powers? Why and ow should we trust them not to betray us?
 
10ebbor10 said:
Okay, IIRC, these are some of the facts we have

1) The Runelords in this area were weird and unconventional
2) From your very limited knowledge, Morghur was last seen being pursued by High Elves in Bretonnia shortly before the Great War Against Chaos.
3) Dwarves really like Grudges
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Dwarves: "Look, he obviously hates elves. I say we give him a chance."
 
It also could be an illusion desinged by chaos so that we turn around instead of making contact with the dwarfs of Karak Dum. That would also explain why Borek isn't attacked/mutated and it is also more realistic than dwarfs making a deal with beastmen or somehow binding a demigod. Just because Mathilde can't identify it as an illusion, dosen't mean that it isn't an illusion. I mean Teclis coundn't find out what happened to Karak Vlag and he is a lot more skilled than we are, we just got lucky with Vlag.
 
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I'm not as much worried about whether or not this is the Real Morghur. Or if Karak Dum are Chaos Dwarves or not.

I'm worried about the health of the thread culture. Because this puzzle is... well, its impact on the quest is going to be as deep as its complexity. And we've already started at "instant game-over for everyone".

Wouldn't be the first fantasy quest to get a visit from the Good Idea Fairy and introduce a big puzzle.
 
Also guys- if we leave right away, the Dolgon and Kurgan are goingto get suspicious that we didn't make a pilgrimage for ritual combat. I want to scout this place out a bit to figure out wtf is going on - if possible.
 
DXCS said:
It also could be an illusion desinged by chaos so that we turn around instead of making contact with the dwarfs of Karak Dum. That would also explain why Borek isn't attacked/mutated and it is also more realistic than dwars making a deal with beastmen or somehow binding a demigod. Just because Mathilde can't identify it as an illusion, dosen't mean that it isn't an illusion. I mean Teclis coundn't find out what happened to Karak Vlag and he is a lot more skilled than we are, we just got lucky with Vlag.
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If it's a perfect illusion that works on everyone from Mathilde and her Windsight to the dwarfs to Deathfang then we should just run sice we are obviously too deep in the Wastes.
 
So, let's lay out the facts
1 - Karag Dum is surrounded by a field of what I can assume is the corpses of previous chaos armies.
2 - Kurgans have been challenging Morghur for a long ass time.
3 - The forest only occupies a ring around the mountain, suggesting that Morghur doesn't occupy the hold proper.
4 - Morghur welcomed Borek in.
5 - The rest of Karag Dum's mountain range is gone, but the hold itself is intact.
6 - The Waystone flow is uninterrupted and pure.

Theory: Karag Dum resorted to desperate measures to defend themselves, first blowing up the mountain range and then either making the same pact the Zharr did with Hashut to Morghur or somehow binding Morghur in place to protect the hold.

Second Theory: Morghur has laid claim to Dum as his prey alone and is still sieging them while preventing any other chaos forces from getting a shot. This doesn't explain Borek's actions.
 
I think the D3 roll for the state of Karak Dum that got the 3 was how far they went in the face of desperation and the one that got a 2 was for how effective it'd be.

So they went very far in desperation and as "reward" yet stand.
 
Okay so either they went full Chaos Dwarf 2.0

Or they managed to gain control of Shadowgrave, with unknown consequences.

As much as I want to learn about what happened... I think we should retreat. We have our information, enough people have died on this expedition already.
 
At this point I say we follow Snorri's idea and just y'know leave. This is hurting my head waaay to much and I feel like if we go in it's only going to be even more of a mindscrew/be dangerous. Job's done, let's leave.
 
This doesn't make any goddamn sense. Also, how the frick is Mathilde going to pay back the funds she borrowed to buy those shinies in Chaos Vegas now?

@BoneyM Does "Morghur" appear to be equipped with anything resembling dwarven work?
 
If it is an illusion, it's powerful enough to defeat Mathilde's elite Windsight without the benefit of a hundred feet of stone. We wouldn't want to meet whatever could be capable of that anyway. This isn't the most satisfying of endings, but we've saved Vlag, so this is still a success at heart. Time to cash out.
 
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DragonParadox said:
OK, why do we want to speak to servant of the Ruinous Powers? Why and ow should we trust them not to betray us?
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Since I'm not convinced they're servants of the Ruinous Powers.
When I make the difference between Chaos dwarves and chaos dwarves, I'm more trying to differentiate the ones that have genuinely thrown themselves to Chaos, and the ones that have left the teachings of the ancestors.

I think these folk have departed so far from the teachings of the ancestors that they went and bound themselves an entire beastherd in slavery, and used runemagic to boost them into oblivion.
When you don't have the troops to fight for you, you lease, coerce, and even enslave.
 
I think the space in a ring around the central mountain has been overlaid with somewhere else, specifically somewhere where there is a forest. The other mountains still exist, we just can't see them because the other space is 'on top' of it. The radical runesmiths are using a beastman-infested forest like a moat to stand between the hold and the wastes.

Quite possibly the overlaid space is also a different time, and this is the cause behind the Shadowgave existing simultaneously in all of history.
 
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Asheram said:
Since I'm not convinced they're servants of the Ruinous Powers.
When I make the difference between Chaos dwarves and chaos dwarves, I'm more trying to differentiate the ones that have genuinely thrown themselves to Chaos, and the ones that have left the teachings of the ancestors.

I think these folk have departed so far from the teachings of the ancestors that they went and bound themselves an entire beastherd in slavery, and used runemagic to boost them into oblivion.
When you don't have the troops to fight for you, you lease, coerce, and even enslave.
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If they are binding the likes of Moghur they are servants of the Ruinous Powers, even if they are deluded enough to think otherwise. A grudge is a grudge no matter how they would rationalize it. The only thing we should have to do with dwarfs so far gone as to do so is kill them. Sadely we lack the resources to do so
 
Crazy theory: Karag Dum's desperate attempts to survive led them to experiment with the waystone.
Maybe the entire mountain vale was sent somewhere else and the Dwarfhold now acts as a portal between the Chaos Wastes and Athel Loren.
The Dwarfs aren't besieged by Chaos, but by Wood Elves.

A Tzeentch plot to get the Karag Dum dwarfs to make a dark pact with the Beastmen for protection.
 
Nope we are done here I don't think anything good can come of poking this any further. maybe we will figure it out down the line but at this point it is just giving me a headache.
 
Byzantine said:
I'd be up for leaving but I want to poke things. Gah.

Issue is poking things here could kill us all.
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Yeah, I'm very curious about what's going on since it does seem very likely it's more complex than just "They're CDwarves 2.0." But I don't think whatever explanation we might find is likely to change things substantially enough to justify the risk of staying around here.
 
Max Uristwell said:
Or, and I'm aware that this may get me crucified, this is a massive illusion.
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I agree with you completely. We are in the Chaos Wastes for crying out loud. Reality is mutable at the best of times. It's Occam's razor. Either we are being fooled by an illusion or
A. Morghur managed to sneak from Brettonia to the Chaos Wastes without anyone aligned to Order noticing despite being completely lacking in stealth when not on a Beast-Path.
B. He turned Karak Dum into a Herdstone without corrupting the flow of energy to Karak Vlag.
C. He chose not to kill a Dawi who was right in front of him.
D. A full on mountain disappeared.

Given that we are in a desert, a place infamous for mirages, supporting a forest I'd put my money on the illusion. The Chaos Wastes run on that sort of symbolism.

Given Borek's reaction, I suspect that it was put in place as a last resort by the Dawi of Karak Dum, and he is willing to let the Karag Ankor think them dead rather than having failed in their duty to stop Chaos incursions. Remember, Karak Dum was one of, if not the, most prideful Karaks in existence. I also have trouble believing the Kurgan would besiege a forest full of Beastmen.
 
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