Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
You know, I wonder if pointing out that our Windsight is what let us actually see the problem with Karak Vlag and then find the other Waystone to fix it might make Kragg more likely to accept a Seviroscope from us. Especially with the recent Mathilde's soul is a dwarf—if he actually believes that—thing. Basically, our Windsight has proven itself, so something to emulate it could be okay?
 
If I gave it abilities at all, it would be Loremaster. Unlike the Book of Arkhan or the Cursed Book it doesn't have magical properties of its own.
I find quite curious not only that 80% of the named Magic Grimoires in Warhammer are focused on Dark or Chaos Magic, but that the safest ones to study, own, and arguably use (besides being the least gruesome of the bunch) are the treaties of necromancy like the Liber Mortis or the books of Nagash.

It almost feels as a validation to @Omegahugger crazy plans for Necromancer Mathilde.
 
I find quite curious not only that 80% of the named Magic Grimoires in Warhammer are focused on Dark or Chaos Magic, but that the safest ones to study, own, and arguably use (besides being the least gruesome of the bunch) are the treaties of necromancy like the Liber Mortis or the books of Nagash.

It almost feels as a validation to @Omegahugger crazy plans for Necromancer Mathilde.
The thing is, all of the "good" magic doesn't get passed about in dodgy grimoires, it just gets shared and written in academic papers and maybe regular books. What would a "good" grimoire even look like - instead of curses hidden in its pages, would it randomly bless the reader? Better to just openly tell them how to do it, and decide if they want or need it.
 
I find quite curious not only that 80% of the named Magic Grimoires in Warhammer are focused on Dark or Chaos Magic, but that the safest ones to study, own, and arguably use (besides being the least gruesome of the bunch) are the treaties of necromancy like the Liber Mortis or the books of Nagash.

It almost feels as a validation to @Omegahugger crazy plans for Necromancer Mathilde.

This is because necromancy is humanities destined hat as a species. :V

Only a species long lived enough to treasure life, but short lived enough to not tire of it before they die could have come up with it.
 
Last edited:
I find quite curious not only that 80% of the named Magic Grimoires in Warhammer are focused on Dark or Chaos Magic, but that the safest ones to study, own, and arguably use (besides being the least gruesome of the bunch) are the treaties of necromancy like the Liber Mortis or the books of Nagash.

Heinrich Kemmler ended up with a fragment of Nagash in his head after reading one of them, I wouldn't consider that safe.

The Liber Mortis in Mathilde's possession isn't trapped because when Frederick lost it and started going full paranoia Vlad killed him.
 
The thing is, all of the "good" magic doesn't get passed about in dodgy grimoires, it just gets shared and written in academic papers and maybe regular books. What would a "good" grimoire even look like - instead of curses hidden in its pages, would it randomly bless the reader? Better to just openly tell them how to do it, and decide if they want or need it.
It'd be heavily filigreed in needlessly expensive materials, written in Eltharin, and have anecdotes of the accomplishments of the author and/or their forebears in utilizing the knowledge within.
 
The thing is, all of the "good" magic doesn't get passed about in dodgy grimoires, it just gets shared and written in academic papers and maybe regular books. What would a "good" grimoire even look like - instead of curses hidden in its pages, would it randomly bless the reader? Better to just openly tell them how to do it, and decide if they want or need it.
There was a very very long period of time where "good" magic didn't get shared and written in academic papers and maybe regular books, it was subject to the exact same treatment the necromancers and chaos sorcerers were. A handful of research notes written by Fozzrik would probably functionally count as a grimoire for instance.
 
Hey, remember when it was mentioned how all the Lord Magisters of the Grey College have a bunch of legendary feats that are totally classified, but only outside the College and become the topic of gossip for a lot of students and stuff? I wonder what our legend is gonna look like after this Expedition. We've done some crazy stuff already, and haven't even made it to Dum yet. It would be kinda cool to see someone looking at us with the same level of disbelieving awe Mathilde once had for people of her stature, actually.
 
@BoneyM how dis pre-Teclisian mono-wind mages train their apprentices without losing so many of them to Dhar poisoning that their traditions would go extinct?

Not that this is something I want to do, but I wonder if, for example, a slave (not a Dwarf, Greensking, or Skaven, don't care about the race outside of that) of the Chaos Dwarves escaped to the Empire and had managed to secretly learn Runecraft by watching the Chaos Dwarves work ... how illegal would that be on the former slaves part, from the perspective of the Karaz Ankor.

Because while it's illegal to learn the secrets of the Karaz Ankor without that permission .... he didn't gain that info from them. Like, the same thing with warmachines, if some humans back in the day had stolen knowledge of how to make Grudge Throwers by spying on the construction process that would be a crime, but if they had met the Elves with the Elves already knowing how to do that then it'd presumably be fine because they didn't steal the knowledge from the Dawi.

In this case this hypothetical character would have stolen a secret of the Karaz Ankor, but it was stolen from enemies of the Karaz Ankor, in fact they stole the secrets of the Dawi's enemies, it just so happens that they share'd said secret. So, assuming that the Dawi knew for a fact it happened this way, would they still blame this character for learning their secrets, or is it legally permissible as the secrets were learned from an independent party?

Edit: I figure that the former slave would be in the clear, but it'd be yet another Grudge against the Chaos Dwarves .... though I'm very interested in the opinions of others here.
There's a difference between Runelore and other tech. It's okay if people get other tech through means other than theft from the Dawi. But the Cult of Thungi actively and lethally tries to prevent the spread of knowledge of Thungi style Runes beyond just the concerns of honor and intellectual property. Or at least that's how I understood it.
 
@BoneyM how dis pre-Teclisian mono-wind mages train their apprentices without losing so many of them to Dhar poisoning that their traditions would go extinct?
Much the same as they do to this day; very, very carefully. The thing to remember, though, is that there's also the Hedgewise, who don't use the same mono-wind method of casting, but rather share a reagent-focused methodology with the Ungol Hag Witches.
 
@BoneyM how dis pre-Teclisian mono-wind mages train their apprentices without losing so many of them to Dhar poisoning that their traditions would go extinct?
I think that's the sort of question where the answer is "go ask a Hedge wizard".

(I think the answer probably has to do with using magic in limited amounts)
 
The thing is, all of the "good" magic doesn't get passed about in dodgy grimoires, it just gets shared and written in academic papers and maybe regular books. What would a "good" grimoire even look like - instead of curses hidden in its pages, would it randomly bless the reader? Better to just openly tell them how to do it, and decide if they want or need it.
Good Magic gets passed around in non-dodgy Grimoires. They're all hand-written and hard cover, with personal illustrations and stuff, and probably full enough of magic to look suitably impressive. They're just not 'this kills you or drives you insane'-style cursed, so it's more 'the tools of wizards are charmingly strange' than 'Watch where you step; the Thesaurus Daemonica likes to chew on ankles'.
 
@BoneyM how dis pre-Teclisian mono-wind mages train their apprentices without losing so many of them to Dhar poisoning that their traditions would go extinct?
Well, green magic had the druidic tradition, so at least one of them pulled it off. I hear astrology is popular in Cathay, as well. Beyond that... I don't know if Boney has stated that there had been any other mono-wind traditions. Closest you'd get would probably be human mages apprenticing to bored dragons that were attuned to specific winds.
 
I don't know if Boney has stated that there had been any other mono-wind traditions.
In the Empire, the biggest magical traditions before Teclis and the Colleges were the Hedgewise, who were more akin to Ungol Hag Witches than the wizards of today in how their spells worked. A lot of focus on reagents (to the point the Hedgewise need the spell's reagents to cast at all), spells mostly geared towards protecting a community, magical brews and the like.
 
Well, green magic had the druidic tradition, so at least one of them pulled it off. I hear astrology is popular in Cathay, as well. Beyond that... I don't know if Boney has stated that there had been any other mono-wind traditions. Closest you'd get would probably be human mages apprenticing to bored dragons that were attuned to specific winds.

Okay.

Now I'm curious what could be done with Ulgu from first principles and how much of the spellcraft of our college is based on legacy traditions and biases.

Then again, afaik our college isn't based on ancient traditions like the Shamans, Druids, Alchemists or Astologers would be. So maybe it brought less baggage and clung closer to the teachings of Teclis.
More than a little of what the Grey Order teaches can be traced back to Illusionists and the Hedgewise, rather than Teclis. And the Light Order draws on ancient philosophies of Tilea and Nehekhara, the Amethysts on Morrite lore, and the Brights on the fiery parts of Elementalism. The first students of Teclis were those that could be taught as quickly as possible to fight in the Great War Against Chaos, and they went on to be the founding members of the Colleges, so there's no 'pure' Teclisean teachings.

So according to that all eight winds had pre-Teclisian traditions and practitioners, if not quite in the same forms we'd be familiar with.
 
I have caught up and am sad. Also disappointed that a protagonist with tastes beyond the usual boring standard options has been wasted on a boring standard relationship with a character whose name I still cannot recall unless she's onscreen. The interactions were kinda cute I'll give you, but dragons! Dwarves! Skaven! Spider hivemind!

Other than that though, this Quest is absolutely fantastic and I'm honestly amazed that I missed it for this long. I've no particular desire to wade through eighty pages of discussion at the moment, so I'll abstain from voting :V.
 
In the Empire, the biggest magical traditions before Teclis and the Colleges were the Hedgewise, who were more akin to Ungol Hag Witches than the wizards of today in how their spells worked. A lot of focus on reagents (to the point the Hedgewise need the spell's reagents to cast at all), spells mostly geared towards protecting a community, magical brews and the like.
Other way around; the hags need them, the Hedgewise are just going to miscast without them.
 
Back
Top