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The existing paradigms haven't sufficed to explain the Shadow Realm. We should reject all the existing names and paradigms simply because we know we need a new perspective is needed and binding ourselves to the existing interpretations will fail to provide anything new. We're not going to do better at treating it as the Hedge that LM Krammovich can, for example, so we shouldn't even try. We should bring our own new and unique ideas to the conversation.
 
Honestly I think your taking this waaaaaay to seriously DragonParadox. Calling it the Shadow Realm is as accurate a name as any other and it's not like the other six nonhedge wizards are agreeing with their compatriot so I don't see why we have to.

Plus calling it the shadow realm is funnier.
 
The existing paradigms haven't sufficed to explain the Shadow Realm. We should reject all the existing names and paradigms simply because we know we need a new perspective is needed and binding ourselves to the existing interpretations will fail to provide anything new. We're not going to do better at treating it as the Hedge that LM Krammovich can, for example, so we shouldn't even try. We should bring our own new and unique ideas to the conversation.
What I imagine it's like every time a new Lord/Lady Magister learns about the Shadow Realm.

 
The existing paradigms haven't sufficed to explain the Shadow Realm. We should reject all the existing names and paradigms simply because we know we need a new perspective is needed and binding ourselves to the existing interpretations will fail to provide anything new. We're not going to do better at treating it as the Hedge that LM Krammovich can, for example, so we shouldn't even try. We should bring our own new and unique ideas to the conversation.

Are we going to be treating it as anything? So far what Mathilde knows is what she was told and she may never get into serious studies of it for years if ever. Just mentally assigning it the word Hedge is not going to magically lock her into a paradigm she knows nothing about anything about. IMO it's just showing respect for an elder tradition.

Honestly I think your taking this waaaaaay to seriously DragonParadox. Calling it the Shadow Realm is as accurate a name as any other and it's not like the other six nonhedge wizards are agreeing with their compatriot so I don't see why we have to.

Plus calling it the shadow realm is funnier.

If that ends up being the thread consensus I won't be upset or anything, but to be this seems like to solemn a moment to forever associate with an OOC joke.
 
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Being different just for the sake of being different feels a bit arrogant to me. If we did some studies on it and came up with interesting properties that suggested a name that would be one thing, but as a default name knowing what we know of it right now. Hedge seems most fitting. Personally I would keep the name Hedge even if we came up with some understanding honestly just because the Hedgewise have lost a lot to the empire over the course of their history, making their name for the place they draw their powers 'just one among many' just does not sit right with me.
And I'm not proposing difference just for the sake of it, I'm proposing it because it is a verifiable fact that is different.

The Hedgewise used it for protection, but you don't see the college enforcing terminology of it as a weapon despite the fact that at least 2 battle magics rely upon it in their operation.

There's a whole bunch of other things I could get into on why this justification feels contrived, but I do not want to flare up that debate it doesn't end well however

IMO it's just showing respect for an elder tradition.
The elder tradition she has no fucking connection with AT ALL, that she NEVER interacted with and until just now was known to her only as another pre Teclisian tradition that was outshone by the foundations of the colleges and the Grey College is in the process of actively subverting by one of her direct peers!

So that's already a massive fucking strike, however you are incorrect.

Yet never the less couching, our conception of it in their conception of for the place implies that is what it is.

If she's calling it a Hdege a place of protection, that's what she's going to think it is even if its just on a subconscious level, as in this context that's what the word means! That's pretty obvious.

In short, no there is no reason to show respect to the elder tradition, until a second ago nobody would have even considered it and its only coming up now because the Hedgewise might have some insights into this place at some point in their existence.

In essence what reason does Mathilde have to refer to it as the Hedge beyond connections that are not there to an organisation she likely does not respect much who have a methodology and mentality significantly divorced from Mathilde's own understanding of magic AKA the thing that makes her a unique wizard!
 
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To me, the whole process of describing the real location of the grey college seemed pretty ritualised, and I think it is no coincidence that everyone described the ulguspace differently, and it has less to do with different academic understanding than with tradition.

Btw, I find it funny that our college skimped on pomp and ritual when we expected it (magister promotion) but actually delivered it when we did not expect it (lord magister promotion.

Well, surprise and confusion are of Ulgu, I suppose.
 
And I'm not proposing difference just for the sake of it, I'm proposing it because it is a verifiable fact that is different.

The Hedgewise used it for protection, but you don't see the college enforcing terminology of it as a weapon despite the fact that at least 2 battle magics rely upon it in their operation.

There's a whole bunch of other things I could get into on why this justification feels contrived, but I do not want to flare up that debate it doesn't end well however


The elder tradition she has no fucking connection with AT ALL, that she NEVER interacted with and until just now was known to her only as another pre Teclisian tradition that was outshone by the foundations of the colleges and the Grey College is in the process of actively subverting by one of her direct peers!

So that's already a massive fucking strike, however you are incorrect.

Yet never the less it, terming it in their conception of for the place implies that is what it is.

If she's calling it a Hdege a place of protection, that's what she's going to think it is even if its just on a subconscious level, as in this context that's what the word means! That's pretty obvious.

In short, no there is no reason to show respect to the elder tradition, until a second ago nobody would have even considered it and its only coming up now because the Hedgewise might have some insights into this place at some point in their existence.

In essence what reason does Mathilde have to refer to it as the Hedge beyond connections that are not there to an organisation she likely does not respect much who have a methodology and mentality significantly divorced from Mathilde's own understanding of magic AKA the thing that makes her a unique wizard!

Some fair points here about names enforcing conception in the wizard's mind. Still think we shouldn't name the place until and unless we have some special understanding of it. At best we could go with Melkroth's vague 'application of known principles'. I suspect he is one who has also not looked into the matter.

Also as a note we don't know if it's the Colleges subverting the Hedgewise or the reverse, or even both.
 
Well, I can't lie woke up an hour ago and read the promotion scene, had a big cheesy grin on my face. I was hoping we'd be given the promotion before going but didn't want to say anything in case it would jinx it as it naturally puts at the head of the wizards brigade on the expedition so it felt like a natural time to happen.

:D

Next turn I'm still of the opinion we try

Fog Path
Overwork (something) Sword style or Pall of darkness
Join expedition
Coin set to protector.
 
It's amazing, yeah :)

Just this big heartwarming moment even as it's getting initiated into the real movers and shakers of your society.

Anyway, my feeling is that the Grey College exists in that boundary--and that boundary is usually this infinitesimal thing that's nonetheless infinitely sharp if angled correctly. Hence why stuff that gets dumped into it gets shredded into particulate matter or never gets seen again. (Based on what side of the cosmos the flayed object falls over on)

What they did it seemed... Was blow a chunk of reality into that realm, and formed a reality-bubble inside it? From an external point of view, it's still an infinitely sharp reality shear. But a small portion of that shear has been expanded into an arcane facility, even while it's still in an infinitely large, infinitely sharp reality border if you don't access it in the specific directions of twisted space that let you approach it 'Safely?'

More importantly. We now understand why Ulgu is represented as a sword. It's a straight edge, infinitely sharp and infinitely sized. The Deepest Magic of the Wind inevitably involves severance, using that liminal border as the mechanism to divide without exception.
 
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You need to turn it down a bunch of notches.
My apologies, I tend to become bellicose when emphasising points however that was all that was intended not rudeness towards @DragonParadox which I hope was not taken and apologies are offered if they were.

Some fair points here about names enforcing conception in the wizard's mind. Still think we shouldn't name the place until and unless we have some special understanding of it. At best we could go with Melkroth's vague 'application of known principles'. I suspect he is one who has also not looked into the matter.

Also as a note we don't know if it's the Colleges subverting the Hedgewise or the reverse, or even both.
That is essentially my point.

While it is a barrier to disseminating knowledge, the fact is the individuality of a wizard's relationship to magic is a core theme of the colleges, one formed from a person's personal experiences and history hence why there is no agreement amongst our peers. It's not a matter of wanting to be different just cause, it's likely an extension of why so many spells can only be passed down from master to apprentice with the added issue of because of magic all those interpretations are equally valid all at once.

However yeah, if we decide to come up with how we look at it, it'll because this is how it looks to her and for no other reason.

Fair, it is a game of 12D chess, though my assumption is the college is probably doing the better of the two.

Look, I'm just shoehorning this in because I think it sounds cool, but "When you flip a four-faced(/fold) coin, this is where it lands edge"
Personally I'd say the World that is a Sword, but personally I think that's too martial.
 
Can someone remind me why we are bothering to bring human Mooks with us to the Chaos Wastes?

IIRC, the air is full of warpstone dust, that when breathed in for any extended period settles inside the body and begins mutating it.
You're thinking about somewhere a hell lot further north than we're going.(pun intended)

Where we're going, there are significant populations of human nomads living here and not being visibly mutated while actively trying to mutate, living in the open with no permanent residences.

Where we're going, the actual danger is the random encounter table. It can happen that the Winds of Magic might surge and we eat a localized Storm of Magic. It can happen that a band of Daemons are further south than they can be permanently sustained by the ambient magic. It can happen that the herd of goats we're buying for dinner are actually the same number of Bray Shamans.

But its not likely.
In Exalted terms, we're looking at Bordermarches, which may be Middlemarches at times of poor weather.

But we're still incredibly far from where Grimnir fights at the Gates.
We know the Jades are basically a fertility cult that's okay with polyamory, I doubt they care much about titles when it comes to love. The Grey College is extremely strict on itself about impropriety and misconduct to earn the public's trust, they probably do care about unequal relationships but at Lord Magister level they trust you enough to have faith that you won't abuse your rank.
What we know about the Grey College's view of romance is mostly that those who shouldn't romance usually wind up doing romance and those who really should get some romance usually don't.

I'd guess the dedicated, dutiful types will put off romance until they have too many obligations to want to seek it, and the passionate types will soon show their indiscretions really quickly.
Just saw the preview, so I'm way behind the discussion, but: It's a sword.

The elven myth is that someone stole Ulgu's sword, yeah? Well the barrier between the Aether and the physical world is a metaphysical sword. Therefore the college is sitting on top of a titanic sword. Also, Gazul, who separated the Glittering Realm from the Aether, wields a sword. Not a coincidence. But that's just my late-night guess.
Extending from that. The boundary between the Aether and the physical world is Ulgu, the power of boundaries. What divides the realm of concepts from the realm of the physical is thought, which is of both.

Daemons held this Sword, representing control over the ability to manifest, representing daemonic cults allowing them to manifest freely.
Stealing the sword from the daemons meant taking thought out of their hands. Then various parties took this sword and carved out their bits of the boundary in their own ways, and this is simultaneously true because this power can be in many hands at once.

So that's how they got an actual mono-wind environment! I always figured that it was just almost entirely mono-wind achieved by ludicrous fung shui and careful construction, but no, it's there's literally only Ulgu here. Neat.

That does raise the likelihood that the other colleges also live in extradimensional spaces, though they don't have anything even sort of like the justification for it that the Grey College does.

...Huh. We built the Rooms of Calamity inside the borders of each College, right? I wonder if Thorek noticed what was going on while he was in there.
I think its the other way round - they achieved a stable pocket dimension by packing an absurd amount of Ulgu into every inch of the Colleges, down to the stone itself.
Its essentially the same phenomenon as Substance of Shadow, only packed densely enough that its not going to be disrupted by anything.

It does explain how the Grey Battle Wizards just 'borrowed' the room indefinitely though.
That's a fair point, and perhaps parenting isn't the proper term for what Mathilde can offer Eike. She can however, become a wise mentor and close confidant for Eike when she gets frustrated by Wilhelmina's controlling/dominating influence. It would provide a healthy outlet for Eike to honestly express herself without judgement for who she is or wants to be, without a burden on her shoulders to fill the shoes Wilhelmina wants her to. To be encouraged to grow into her own person.

And we have plenty of examples of Mathilde doing such with the Ducklings, prominently with Hubert:
Contrast may be a better term. She demonstrates an alternative between Wilhelmina's domineering control over everything and near neglect of anything else, the subservience of staff and tutors, or the self interest of her birth mother.

Mathilde just wanders through, causes a storm of changes, and wanders off. A fearsome, powerful and unpredictable figure, but evidently trusted and largely hands off except when she's hands on.

Huh. That kind of squashes the "dump vampire bones into the Pit to get rid of them" plan. Just creates litter on the Colleges front lawn.

I imagine that one of the Lord/Lady magisters have to go out occasionally and pick up any Vamp bones, unholy artifacts, or other assorted gribblies lies that survive being forcibly dropped into the realm.
As far as I can tell its not a realm. The Grey College is a realm, the Glittering Realm is a realm. Laurelorn may be a realm. The boundary which the Pit opens into is literally the border between Real and Not Real.

Without Ulgu or some other force employed, the natural state of anything 'dropped' into this state of Is and Is Not experiences similar results to being on the event horizon of a Black Hole.

Splat.
3. It's always one strand of magic that's been compressed into matter. Theoretically, the size isn't supposed to vary. That Teclis had really big ones has caused a lot of grumbling from the College's magical theorists.
Maybe some strands are 'longer'.
Or maybe Teclis just wants people to know he has big stones.

No, it's impossible to get a consensus behind a name for it because everyone disagrees on what it actually is.
Might be all the Ulgu in it. Resists getting pinned down to a specific name!
 
Some fair points here about names enforcing conception in the wizard's mind. Still think we shouldn't name the place until and unless we have some special understanding of it. At best we could go with Melkroth's vague 'application of known principles'. I suspect he is one who has also not looked into the matter.

Basically this, there's not exactly a steady stream of LMs being inducted every year, or even every decade. So there's no real rush to get our part of the ritual naming thing locked in at this point. Just let it ride as as an undefined Ulgu borderland in the back of our mind until we have time to do some actual investigation.
 
Basically this, there's not exactly a steady stream of LMs being inducted every year, or even every decade. So there's no real rush to get our part of the ritual naming thing locked in at this point. Just let it ride as as an undefined Ulgu borderland in the back of our mind until we have time to do some actual investigation.
I think that the naming of the space is implied to be a deeply personal thing, and I am in favour of not naming it for a few years or so.
Wait, wait, wait. So Pit of Shades banishes people to the Shadow Realm?

I didn't realize this was a Yu-Gi-Oh! crossover! D:
Always has been.
 
So since this is the literal Dimension most of the Grey's Battle Magic taps into is anyone else interested in learning more Battle Magic now?

Yes, yes, yes. Now that we've got confirmation that there's quite a few pocket realms lying about and that the deepest Grey Battle Magic revolves around messing up with the bounds between the material world and the immaterial wanting to learn the technical details seems quite obvious.


'Rikki' is 'Lord'. Calling yourself that would be demanding that you be shown the same respect as a Runelord.

Where does Mathilde's title of Thane come in on the scale of Dawi nobility? Azrildrekked seems to be more of a honorary title like 'the Grim' in Kragg the Grim but Thanes are generally non royal clan leaders or generals if I understand things correctly?

Overwork (something) Sword style or Pall of darkness

The sword style is quite a ways away from completion. Doubling down on spell creation or on learning more battle magic provides immediate benefits - reaching the absolute pinnacle of mortal sword mastery is a long ways away.
 
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