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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I am 200% for the Library+Research Branch. Hopefully we don't die in this expedition. And yeah, we'll want to express our complete plan with library and research branch to Belegar from the start so they synergize properly.
 
Valmond said:
Belegar lives pretty solidly in the kickflip zone these days, he is perfectly capable of assigning someone a wizard wrangler on nothing but his sayso.
Wther he will, depends largely on wether Mathilde chooses to suggest it, but the ability of Belegar to do so is not in quesion.
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I am not even sure he LIKES the kickflip zone.

I mean, he just started riding that tiger to get his Karak back, but when it started working, he started riding it more until he got the whole Karak back with gusto. Afterwards, he realized that he could no longer get off the kickflip zone's wild ride, and he was like "guess this is my life now."
 
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chocolote12 said:
I think that that is sort of the issue. They take great glee in not sharing it with anybody, which is double heretical I guess, but more importantly annoying.
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No they don't, they share their hoarded knowledge, as far as I can tell.

What they don't do is research. They're collectors and distributors. That's fine, but we don't need to replicate their efforts. We can even invite them to set up a branch in Karak Eight Peaks and get them to set up a library in a very secure dwarfhold. They'll probably jump at the chance, and we don't have to waste a transcendent boon on it if they will.
 
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chocolote12 said:
Their main temple in Marienburg delights in telling Imperials to go away. So, you know, most humans within a thousand miles.
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That's because it's Marienberg.

Also the main temple of a TIlean/Estalian god isn't going to be in Marienberg.

Edit: Verena explicitly doesn't have an organisation above the level of the city, so doesn't have a main temple. Each city's cult is independent, with its own doctrine, its own rituals, its own form of prayers, and, its implied, its own different version of Verena's Lore.
 
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In a scenario where Panoramia, Gretel, and Hubert were the only Wizard residents of K8P and there needed to be an appointed wrangler, it would actually be Hubert, as he's the only one already on the Karak's payroll and the only one with a proven record of wrangling.
 
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Alratan said:
What makes you think that the halflings themselves have a freehold on the land rather than a long lease? Kings in this era very rarely give land away free and clear, rather than as part of feudal contracts with obligations on both sides. Gretel is at least a direct vassal of the Kingdom. Panoramia is subinfeudated, so is in a subordinate position compared to her.
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Your counter-reaction to any argument supportive of Panoramias' not-inconsiderable ability or her relative status are wearing on me. I understand that you don't like her, but we know from the voting that many others do.
Still, to answer, this is what makes me think it-
BoneyM said:
They're de jure completely independent, because otherwise they'd be in a strange limbo of being sort of subordinate to both the Karaz Ankor and the Empire at the same time. De facto they're vassals of King Belegar, with a strong set of rights that were negotiated between him and the Moot. On paper, they are considered to own the surface of the Eastern Valley, with the exact border being where stone and soil meet.
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Despite the complex set of semI-feudal ties, the word 'own' is being used.
 
Alratan said:
That's because it's Marienberg.

Also the main temple of a TIlean/Estalian god isn't going to be in Marienberg.

Edit: Verena explicitly doesn't have an organisation above the level of the city, so doesn't have a main temple. Each city's cult is independent, with its own doctrine, its own rituals, its own form of prayers, and, its implied, its own different version of Verena's Lore.
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Their main Marienburg temple. 🤷‍♀️
Max Uristwell said:
Everything in Marienburg delights in telling Imperials to go away. It's Marienburg.
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They're still Verenians. It doesn't excuse them.
 
Alliterate said:
Your counter-reaction to any argument supportive of Panoramias' not-inconsiderable ability or her relative status are wearing on me. I understand that you don't like her, but we know from the voting that many others do.
Still, to answer, this is what makes me think it-

Despite the complex set of semI-feudal ties, the word 'own' is being used.
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I think she's a Journeyman on the edge of making it to Magister. I don't think she has any special capabilities beyond that. I certainly wouldn't think we've any evidence that they're 'not inconsiderable' or beyond anything that any experienced Jade Jouneyman/early Magister can do. All experienced wizards will be special in their own way.

Her relative status is as a junior wizard of the Empire that works for one of Belegar's vassals. No more, no less.
 
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Nah. All I require to justify 'not-inconsiderable ability' is that Panoramia is at least par for the course as a Journeywoman Wizard, and she's at least that. Wizards can do amazing stuff, and middle-of-the-road Jades have an easier time of it than some with their big agricultural spells.
Don't even need to mention that a colony, and thereby a Karak, is trusting her to spearhead an agricultural terraforming project.

Unlike the arguments belittling Panoramia, I'm not trying to belittle anyone, not even her fellow journeymanlings.
 
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How about not wasting a action on this no issue, if if that doesn't apply, talking. If the club wants a 'leader' they could vote on a some light reading topics presentations in advance for the year (tops) that Mathilde is going to be away.

Does Belegar even care?

Edit: ninja'ed

edit: this reminds me of planning for that meme 'while mom's away' but it's 'while mathilde is in hell'.
 
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Alliterate said:
Nah. All I require to justify 'not-inconsiderable ability' is that Panoramia is at least par for the course as a Journeywoman Wizard, and she's at least that. Wizards can do amazing stuff, and middle-of-the-road Jades have an easier time of it than some with their big agricultural spells.
Don't even need to mention that a colony, and thereby a Karak, is trusting her to spearhead an agricultural terraforming project.

Unlike the arguments belittling Panoramia, I'm not trying to belittle anyone, not even her fellow journeymanlings.
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No one said Pan isn't as capable as any other journey woman wizard so if that's your criteria for being upset then you've been arguing for nothing, being put in charge of other journeyman wizard or indeed any incoming wizards takes more than that though. Also that terraforming project is the impressive deed I mentioned, but like so what? What does that actually have to do with wrangling other wizards, as part of her day to day work Pan doesn't have to interact with any other wizards and she's employed by the Halflings not the otherway around.

Whilst I'm sure she's probably doing some management there, it's quite conceivable that she's operating in a advisory position alongside her actual work and isn't actually a real authority. We don't know because we've not really looked into it enough to have that level of detail to my knowledge.

Any way if Pan is par for the course as a journeyman wizard so are ALL the other ducklings, so obviously that's kind of irrelevant, also framing counter points as belittling is a nice rhetorical flourish but it's not actually accurate.

Pan is important at what she actually does, trying to hype her up as capable in areas she's not involved in or known to be skilled at is wrong. I'm happy to be proven wrong if we see contradictory evidence of this in the future.
 
Hubert is going with us, though, so he's not available? I figured that was why the discussion was ongoing.

And I am a bit miffed that one of the wizards who was involved in the retaking (before we were!) is talked about like she's just another wet-behind-the-ears journeymanling who has yet to do anything worthy of praise.

Might as well dismiss Gotri as just another wannabe radical whose work is all going to crumble and be forgotten in the next fifty years, who only got his position through nepotism. It's an accurate reflection of the opinion of a great many of his peers, but it's still vastly uncharitable and something I'd only say to piss off his fans in thread.

As far as deeds of repute, Pan has equipping the rangers with a new poison, the battles she participated in, the harvests from the East Valley, the waaaghsoak mushroom research, and the skaven ooze research- that we are aware of. Also the ongoing work on the east valley, the water supply, and the caldera for stuff that has not yet completed.
 
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Glau said:
As far as deeds of repute, Pan has equipping the rangers with a new poison, the battles she participated in, the harvests from the East Valley, the waaaghsoak mushroom research, and the skaven ooze research- that we are aware of. Also the ongoing work on the east valley, the water supply, and the caldera for stuff that has not yet completed.
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We can't really count the ooze research until it's done. For all we know it's a dead end that actually poisons the cows with super-mutations.
 
Glau said:
Hubert is going with us, though, so he's not available? I figured that was why the discussion was ongoing.
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Right, muddled the ducklings. Panoramia, Gretel, Adela? That'd be trickier. It might end up Adela by default simply because she's the only one not already employed, or Belegar might just tell them to figure out amongst themselves who's going to be the liaison. That said there likely wouldn't be a pressing need for an official arrangement, the three of them are happy doing their own things and it shouldn't be too long until Mathilde returns unless something goes terribly wrong.

I think people are giving the 'wizard-wrangler' position more prestige than it deserves. It's not a glorious position, it's who has to explain things to Belegar if someone burns down a chicken coop while practicing fireballs or whatever.
 
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What Waaaghsoak mushroom research? I thought people were still pushing to get Mathilde to arrange for Panoramia to finally get around to it?
 
Subject change.

Imagine that Mathilde succeeds in her Dhar/Rat/Whatever MAPP detector project. Could we ... entice runemasters to innovate over time by having such a 'obviously' valuable contribution to the Karaz Ankor being based on unreliable magic enticing them to create substitutes?

I think it'd be good for them. And obviously considering the world it would be more reliable.
 
Alratan said:
What Waaaghsoak mushroom research? I thought people were still pushing to get Mathilde to arrange for Panoramia to finally get around to it?
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We did the first part of the project, but convinced Pan to hold off on publishing the interesting bits about the way they interact with magic. I did feel a bit bad about holding her back at the time, but it seems like she cared less about rep than I was worried about.
 
Alratan said:
What Waaaghsoak mushroom research? I thought people were still pushing to get Mathilde to arrange for Panoramia to finally get around to it?
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I believe you are correct.

[ ] DUCK: Work with Panoramia to try to implement the Waaaghsoak Mushrooms as an aid to spellcasting.

SCO said:
Subject change.

Imagine that Mathilde succeeds in her Dhar/Rat/Whatever MAPP detector project. Could we ... entice runemasters to innovate over time by having such a 'obviously' valuable contribution to the Karaz Ankor being based on unreliable magic enticing them to create substitutes?

I think it'd be good for them. And obviously considering the world it would be more reliable.
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Prooobably not? You'd need to have a radical rune smith, which well we do have one on the council that we're nominally working with but we've never worked with him and never approached him regarding runic/magic cooperation. Something to consider post expedition.


Glau said:
We did the first part of the project, but convinced Pan to hold off on publishing the interesting bits about the way they interact with magic. I did feel a bit bad about holding her back at the time, but it seems like she cared less about rep than I was worried about.
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Do you recall the turn the action as was taken?
 
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