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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Rafin said:
@BoneyM What's the rough demographic split in K8P between Old Hold Dwarves, New Hold Dwarves and former Expats/Clanless? Also, is there any community of Dwarves that are still currently Clanless in K8P?
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The biggest individual Clan is the ex-Clanless Huzkul, then there's the Karak Izor settlers which are split into Grimbrow (Noble), Irkokri (Masons), and Skorrun (Merchants). There's also some Karak Norn settlers from the Warrior Clan Helhein. The rest are K8P Clans that have returned. Apart from returned K8P Clans that had been living in Old Holds, there's no notable groups of Old Hold Dwarves. There's currently no Clanless in K8P.

Here's my current notes for the Clans with what they were doing before they came to K8P. This is a memory aid of ones that have already been mentioned or I found canonical mentions of when researching, rather than a definitive list of every present Clan. K8PO means Karak Eight Peaks Originals.

Clan Angrund - Nobles - Small - K8PO - Karag Lhune
Royal Clan of Karak Eight Peaks.

Clan Grimbrow - Nobles - Karag Rhyn
Settlers from Karak Izor, need new name

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Clan Huzkul - Warriors - Large - Citadel
Newly-founded clan of those that fought to reclaim Karak Eight Peaks.

Clan Helhein - Warriors - Karag Rhyn
Karak Norn skirmishers - crossbow warriors.

Clan Stonebeard - Engineers and Pilots - Karag Lhune
Absorbed into Zhufbar, being refounded.

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Clan Bronzefists - Lode Wardens - K8PO - Karagril
Had a mountain in the Vault. Ironbreaker precursors.

Clan Norgrimling - Miners - K8PO - Karagril
Ironbreakers in Zhufbar.

Clan Ironback - Miners - K8PO - Karagril
Karak Azul deep-shaft miners.

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Clan Irkokri - Masons - Karagril
Settlers from Karak Izor

Clan Stoneback - Masons - K8PO - Karagril
Grey and Black Mountains freelancers.

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Clan Skorrun - Merchants - Small - Karag Rhyn
Settlers from Karak Izor

Clan Dourback - Brewers - K8PO - Small - Karag Rhyn
Empire breweries

Clan Ironspike - Carpenters - K8PO - Small - Karag Rhyn
Karak Hirn heavy-duty carpentry

Clan Flintheart - Metalsmiths - K8PO - Small - Karag Mhonar
Barak Varr tinkers.
 
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If one were to put aside "Useful to Mathilde" as a requirement, what would be some neat combos that could be pulled off through Windherder enchanting of two spells from different spellbooks? (link to the Quest's spellbooks post) Probably worth further restricting it to non-Battle Magic spells, too, at least until Mathy gets a few Enchanting traits.

At first glance, there really aren't any munchkin-appealing combinations, especially if Mathilde herself has to contribute one of the two spells (restricting it to Grey/Anything, rather than Anything/Anything).

Take Shadow Knives. Adding a variation on 'ranged attack' from another school is, in a vacuum, likely to be less effective than simply adding more Shadow Knife to the enchantment. What's needed is synergy. The benefit of Shadow Knives over a lot of the other options is that they're armour piercing. So what you'd want to add to that is something like a normally touch-based status effect that can then be applied through the knife instead. There...really aren't a lot of those in the spellbook, though. You'd think the Jades or maybe Ambers would have a standard contact-poison spell, but the closest thing is Ferment.

  • Shadow Knives + Curse (Celestial) might work. Depending on whether the item goes 'Curse then Knife' or 'Curse through Knife' it will either make a more-difficult-to-dodge AP attack, or an AP attack that makes survivors less likely to dodge the next attack. Both fairly nice options over straight damage.
  • Guard of Steel (Gold, makes orbs that deflect attacks) was raised as a potentially synergistic option for Mathilde's robes on top of the Aetheric Armour, before being dismissed as too much complexity for a first project. Could be done in the future, though.
  • Smoke and Mirrors synergises fairly well with any AOE spell from other colleges, "Point blank explosion + escape".
  • Eye of the Beholder makes something seem more valuable. Add it to a trap effect for a classic cursed item that draws in the greedy.
  • Mathilde's affinity for Fog/Mist presents an opportunity to make AoE versions of usually single-target effects from other Colleges, but that's entirely untested.

The other Grey/Anything options seem a little niche or unlikely to work.
  • Mockery of Death, for example, lets you pretend to be a corpse for a week, but you still need to drink and eat. Adding Fat of the Land (Jade) to remove the latter requirements might make it slightly more user-friendly, but I can't really picture the type of person who would need this effect often enough to commission an expensive enchanted item to do it, over other escape/concealment options.
  • Fearsome Visage (if Mathilde ever got around to learning it) makes the user terrifying to both ally and enemy. Adding in an anti-fear effect like Acceptance of Fate (Amethyst) or Hearts of Fire (Bright) might be synergistic, but I can't really see a tidy way of applying Friend-or-Foe identification to the latter, so the end effect of the enchantment would probably be the two effects cancelling one another entirely.
  • Shadowsteed + a flight effect (Celestial/Amber) is an option for increased travel speed. But relying on an enchanted item to fly means you're now vulnerable to the possibility of the item failing while you're a mile in the air.



Opening it up to Anything/Anything with no contribution from Mathilde other than Windherding gives some more synergies.
  • The Power of Truth (Light college, become charismatic if you're truthful) combos with any of the 'Speak to X' spells from other colleges (Speak to Birds from Celestial, Speak to Beasts from Amber, Speak to Rivers/Trees from Jade, Speak to Dead from Amethyst), as a major failing of the latter type of spell is that generally you still have to convince the target once you start talking to them.
  • On the topic of Speak to Birds (Celestial), one of the weaknesses of Form of the Soaring Raven (Amber) is that it stops you from talking while you're in that form. If you make two or three Form/Speak items, you can have a group of allies with Birdform that can still each communicate with one another.
  • Leatherbane (Amber, destroys leather items) and Curse of Rust (Gold, destroys metal items) in a single item is significantly more flexible than either option alone.
Is there anything particularly cool that I'm missing (for a general-audience enchanted item, not one specifically for Mathilde herself)? Without dipping into other Wizards' potential custom spells, masteries, or battlemagic, that is.
 
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Steam-Wagon: 3-6 MPH, 12-16 hours/day. Estimated 50-100 miles/day.

Human: 3 MPH for 6 hours/day. 18 miles/day.
Dwarf: 3 MPH for 10 hours/day. 30 miles/day.
Heavy Cavalry: 4 MPH for 8 hours/day. 32 miles/day.
Light Cavalry: 5 MPH for 8 hours/day. 40 miles/day.
Ogres: 4 MPH for 12 hours/day. 48 miles/day.
Steppe Horse: 6 MPH for 10 hours/day. 60 miles/day.
Cold Ones: 10 MPH for 6 hours/day. 60 miles/day.
Steppe Horse w/ remounts: 8 MPH for 10 hours/day. 80 miles/day.
Bretonnian Horse: 8 MPH for 10 hours/day. 80 miles/day.
Demigryphs: 10 MPH for 8 hours/day. 80 miles/day.
Winter Wolves: 5 MPH for 16 hours/day. 80 miles/day.
Shadowsteed: 15 MPH for 6 hours/day. 90 miles/day.
Mathilde's Shadowsteed: 25 MPH for 10 hours/day. 250 miles/day.
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Was thinking about how scouting ahead could work. It seems likely that the steam wagons will average something like 80 miles a day, given that's also about the range of the cavalry we're recruiting. Mathilde on the Shadowsteed can go about 3 times that. If she wants to report back on a daily basis, she keep the route about one day ahead scouted. That is to say, she rides ahead 160 miles, then turns around and retraces her steps by 80 miles or so, delaying some hours in there to meet the steam wagons as they reach the end of the day's travel. (Though obviously if she finds something, she can turn around immediately.) The 80 miles for the next day's journey are then scouted. If she did this every other day then she could do a "one day with the expedition, the next day away scouting" pattern and always keep approximately the 80 miles ahead of the expedition scouted.

Of course, that applies only to the immediate path ahead; it doesn't give a lot of leeway to sweep the area to the sides, and if trouble shows up from that direction it would be 50/50 whether she would be there for it.

The expedition to retake K8P was probably doing about 18 miles/day given that it included plenty of human mercenaries/exiles traveling on foot. That was why Mathilde could ride way ahead, zig-zag across a huge area, and then report back knowing pretty reliably that they hadn't moved a whole lot in one day.
 
Rotekian said:
It make me wonder if we could attempt to create an Azyr spell that starts off as Ulgu before rising to the air. Presumably embedding instructions that would work in Azyr inside an Ulgu spell without the whole thing going Dhar at some point would be difficult to impossible.
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Ulgu tongs. You are describing the Ulgu tongs research.
 
Gavin Prince said:
Is there anything particularly cool that I'm missing (for a general-audience enchanted item, not one specifically for Mathilde herself)? Without dipping into other Wizards' potential custom spells, masteries, or battlemagic, that is.
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How about an "I look this good" diplomacy enhancer.

Grey Magic
K / Mutable Visage: You can make a target you are touching (or yourself) noticeably more or less attractive for several hours.
- This effect is relatively minor. Think make-up, not special effects.

Bright Magic
Crown of Fire: You are better at inspiring and intimidating

Light Magic
The Power of Truth: Touched creature becomes much more charismatic, but only while speaking honestly.

Basically this is a super-kit that combines spells from three different colleges that make people more attractive/charismatic, all in different ways. Stack them all for what I expect would be a very nice diplomacy boost in one encounter.

EDIT: This would make a nice gift for our good friend the Empress, wouldn't it?
 
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Can I also say that it's kind of weird that the Greys get a Lock spell by default, but not an Unlock spell. I guess mundane lockpicking plus 'Turn Insubstantial' covers most use-cases.
 
Briefvoice said:
Grey Magic
K / Mutable Visage: You can make a target you are touching (or yourself) noticeably more or less attractive for several hours.
- This effect is relatively minor. Think make-up, not special effects.

Bright Magic
Crown of Fire: You are better at inspiring and intimidating

Light Magic
The Power of Truth: Touched creature becomes much more charismatic, but only while speaking honestly.
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Maybe just the first and last of those. People don't like big flame crowns, but being pretty and being convincing are things it's an expected an Empress would be good at.

Plus, Heidi probably doesn't have a lot of experience at telling the truth, so it'll round out her skill set. :V
 
SuperSonicSound said:
It's important to realise the Emperor is essentially the first among equals not the actual overlord of the Empire. As part of his/her position they will have access to some things other EC don't have directly like a direct connection to the supreme patriarch of the colleges, but even then that's not entirely true.
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The Emperor does probably have more influence and power than any indivindual EC, but less than any 2 indivindual ECs. It may be different for some of the strongest emperors, but most of those were strong by finding a way to make the ECs fall in line, not by being that much more powerful. So yeah, agreed.

Gavin Prince said:
More evidence that the people of Mallus are truly unsalvageable.
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Honestly, I prefer big flame crows to big flame crowns. Big flame crowds, on the other hand, I dislike,
 
Another Combo, this one focused on stacking up on Intimidation.

Grey Magic
Dread Aspect: Makes you seem absolutely terrifying to all those who look upon you for one minute.

Amethyst Magic
Death's Messenger: temporary bonus to intimidation
Acceptance of Fate: Make allies around you fearless for a minute

Bright Magic
Crown of Fire: You are better at inspiring and intimidating

When you absolutely, positively, need to be the living incarnation of terror while leading and inspiring a small band of fearless warriors. Enchant these bad babies into a suit of armor or a shield and it's magical equipment suitable for a warrior-king.

EDIT: Actually, you could probably drop Death's Messenger as unnecessary and this would make a really nice combination.
 
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Gavin Prince said:
On the topic of Speak to Birds (Celestial), one of the weaknesses of Form of the Soaring Raven (Amber) is that it stops you from talking while you're in that form. If you make two or three Form/Speak items, you can have a group of allies with Birdform that can still each communicate with one another.
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That one is actually reinventing the wheel a bit. Ambers already solved that problem with "The Talking Beast" spell, which allows you to speak while transformed if you cast it immediately before the transformation.
 
storryeater said:
The Emperor does probably have more influence and power than any indivindual EC, but less than any 2 indivindual ECs. It may be different for some of the strongest emperors, but most of those were strong by finding a way to make the ECs fall in line, not by being that much more powerful. So yeah, agreed.
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like with real kings and queens and their high nobles. it depends on all the other shit happening.

Magus was probably the most powerful Emperor since Sigmar for the first few years of his rein before all the reforms he implemented probably chipped away at his influence until he was left... as still one of the the most powerful Emperors since Sigmar.

on the other hand Mattheus II Holswig Schliestein was not all the powerful from the sounds of it.

and Magritta of Marienburg, well, the whole 'three emperors' thing can be said to be caused by her weak position as much as sexism.
 
Gavin Prince said:
Can I also say that it's kind of weird that the Greys get a Lock spell by default, but not an Unlock spell. I guess mundane lockpicking plus 'Turn Insubstantial' covers most use-cases.
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I think it's more that everyone gets Magic Lock (its a Lesser Magic), and that Ulgu doesn't really do direct manipulation of real world manufactured matter like that- certainly there aren't many such spells.
Throttling, perhaps, being closest, most of the rest affect the appearance. So Ulgu might be good at making a locked door look unlocked. Or the Road Runner-Wile E Coyotee 'run smack into the door or wall' thing. :)
An actual 'Unlock' for Ulgu might have rely on the concept of bypassing boundaries, which... well, as we've seen before is rather too broad?
 
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Shaper47 said:
Normally that is the case but as I have said before the alliance with the dwarfs is a major part of article 1, if King Belegar wants a undead army to protect dwarf lives from rats then it supersedes article 7.
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On the other hand, if we look at article 15, which can specifically revoke Mathilde's permission to do magic.
BoneyM said:
15. All Magisters are required to exert themselves to seek out and counter such destructive and anti-Imperial machinations, practices, peoples, and creatures that are beyond the means of civil authorities and Sigmar's Templars to counter, but yet still serve the Daemon Gods or advance the corruption of Imperial citizens through any sorcerous or infernal means. This shall be the prime concern and purpose of the Colleges, their Orders and the Magisters belonging to them, and to fail in this duty is to render void all the Articles of this document and make obsolete their permission to practise arcane arts without hindrance.
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If Mathilde is to practice necromancy, she will either be put down and to the torch by witch hunters. If the witch hunters prove incapable of such, she is obligated to do it herself, or lose all privileges (such as to keep breathing) the articles of magic once provided her.
 
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