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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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SuperSonicSound said:
Point of fact in the RPG which this quest draws inspiration from, ie 2E there's actually no way to use battle magic in the RPG. It's just flatly not available and battle magic is treated as "Any wizard that has this is beyond the scope of the RPG" at least in realms of sorcery, personally I always felt that was a huge cop out given that they introduce literally fucking greater daemons in the chaos expansion.

I think the reality is they just didn't want to introduce the power disparity that would come to be between a literal battle wizard and his mundane companions, but if you could use battle magic it would probably be the sort where there lower half of the catestrophic chaos manifestations table is removed and only the worst stuff remains for miscasts.
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There's homebrew for that... somewhere. Iirc it worked something like metamagic. Increase in difficulty for higher parameters.
 
Chlof said:
Never personally, no. The only battlemagic cast in the campaign was in Drakenhof (The town) and at that point we were too occupied with the other thing that happened there to care about what the amethyst wizards were doing.
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Huh. Well, I'll be interested to see what MMM looks like "in the field" on the expedition.

If it mechanically ends up giving the hobgoblin riders, I dunno, let's say a -25 penalty to their D100 battle rolls, would that impress everyone?
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Like, I do think he might know that spell well enough to notice the coin bonus, but want exactly that bonus is will be confusing to him. (Unless he is a Ranaldnite as well.

Is mathy a genius or a secret worshiper of the changer?
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We tell Melkoth it's Ranald. He approves and converts. Tells Algard.

Grey college becomes Ranaldite :)

Heidi: So that's what she was planning! :O

:V
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Point of fact in the RPG which this quest draws inspiration from, ie 2E there's actually no way to use battle magic in the RPG. It's just flatly not available and battle magic is treated as "Any wizard that has this is beyond the scope of the RPG" at least in realms of sorcery, personally I always felt that was a huge cop out given that they introduce literally fucking greater daemons in the chaos expansion.
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Yeah, I was imprecise in what I said, but my point was "the difficulty of spells is represented with higher casting numbers -> higher casting numbers require rolling more dice to meet them -> rolling more dice means that small miscasts are more likely and big miscasts are possible." I see no reason why this principle shouldn't continue to hold if the RPG extended its scale upward to encompass Battle Magic, and so I think that's the fundamental philosophy behind miscasts that this quest has as well.
 
IronFist said:
We tell Melkoth it's Ranald. He approves and converts. Tells Algard.

Grey college becomes Ranaldite :)

Heidi: So that's what she was planning! :O

:V
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...Poor Reiner Starke.
SuperSonicSound said:
Unless I've misunderstood things BoneyM has been pretty explicit that there's nothing beyond the lack of a requirement to roll for casting the spell as a result of that 164 result. There isn't going to be anything else coming of this, except maybe at the end of arc when we've narratively and on a meta level earned another trait. Then it might come up as a possible trait result but I wouldn't count on it.

Personally I'm still hopeful we'll make significant progress on the fog path spell with the help of both Regimand and Melkoth.
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He has said to wait until the second half of the vote before we start judging how much Melkoth was helpful, which seems to imply we'll at least see something else. I have no idea what that something else is, but I'm hoping it will be something nice.
 
You know, I wonder if Melkoth's indeterminate age is actually the result of an exotic Arcane mark he picked up in the process of developing his Miasma that he's subsequently pretended is deliberate. That kind of persistent effect feels more like an Arcane mark than a spell.

That also makes me wonder about Gilding. Given the Chamon Marks included transformation of parts of the body into living gold maybe the ritual is actually the result of reverse engineering what the Arcane mark does and refining and directing it?

Perhaps the end result of sufficiently high rolls when investigating Arcane Marks multiple times, if we learn about rituals, could be a similar way of deliberately inducing an improved version of a mark.
 
Briefvoice said:
So what about on the other side? Can someone dig up in-game posts from the quest where we have seen battle magic used successfully?

I feel like that's the other side to this. We've heard a lot about the danger, heard a lot about the power, but being able to quote some in-quest examples of battle magic affecting a battle would give a much better sense of the "rewards" half of the risk/rewards equation. I don't think we've seen anything from the K8P expedition onwards, but was there some successful battle magic in the Purge of the Haunted Hills or the Assault on Drakenhof
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Closest we've got is this:
BoneyM said:
"Hard-won, but yes. Konstantin would never allow the Imperial Army within Wissenland, so the Emperor turned his full attention here, and with most of the Battle Wizards off enjoying themselves in Sylvania it fell to the highest echelons to fill the void. Alric's up at the Temple, Mira's seeing to the wounded, and No-Relation Reicthard and Dragomas are still below, ferreting out the last of them." He frowns. "Don't tell Dragomas I said 'ferreting'. He's a bit touchy about that."

You're about to ask him to clarify, but with a faint rumble an enormous creature bursts from the ground, and only Algard's lack of reaction keeps you from trying something desperate and foolish with Branulhune. It seems like an elongated lizard with a moustache, or, yes, like a scaled ferret, and despite its lack of wings it floats through the air with the ease of an eel through the water. It speaks in a surprisingly normal and very familiar voice, "dead-ends on branches 12, 14 and 15. 13 had a chamber with a few holdouts, flag it for searching."

Algard alters the MAP accordingly. "Only one entrance to the chamber on 13?"

"Yes. Any news from 18?"

"You know Reicthard." The dragon snorts, and dives back down into the tunnel it had emerged from.
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So, yeah. Dragon. Unfortunately Mathilde doesn't have the traits needed to manage something like a Shadow Dragon spell, and other Battle Magics tend to be much more 'fire and forget' so it's hard to compare.
 
Ericwinter said:
...Poor Reiner Starke.

He has said to wait until the second half of the vote before we start judging how much Melkoth was helpful, which seems to imply we'll at least see something else. I have no idea what that something else is, but I'm hoping it will be something nice.
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Melkoth is in cahoots with the time travelling students, miasma was just a trial run for the proper time travel spell. :V
 
Derpmind said:
I don't know if Mathilde is ready for Thongs research.
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Goddamit
Ericwinter said:
He has said to wait until the second half of the vote before we start judging how much Melkoth was helpful, which seems to imply we'll at least see something else. I have no idea what that something else is, but I'm hoping it will be something nice.
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Seems to me that the big benefit of hiring a magister lord to teach you battlemagic is that you learn battlemagic safely. Its a worthy reward on its own, especially happening at a time and place of our convenience rather than traveling to Altdorf and rolling the gacha
Hiring a magister lord to collaborate on spell development on the other hand...
 
Ericwinter said:
He has said to wait until the second half of the vote before we start judging how much Melkoth was helpful, which seems to imply we'll at least see something else. I have no idea what that something else is, but I'm hoping it will be something nice.
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That was in relation to the merits of spending CF to get Melkoth in, not for the roll result we had with MMM, I think BoneyM has been pretty clear the reward for that roll was explicitly not having to do a casting check afterwards. Now, Melkoth may be able to get us some incredible help with the fog path spell, for instance if he gives us a speed up time element to the fog path spell that'd be incredible.

I'm not expecting it mind but it's maybe in the cards.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
That was in relation to the merits of spending CF to get Melkoth in, not for the roll result we had with MMM, I think BoneyM has been pretty clear the reward for that roll was explicitly not having to do a casting check afterwards. Now, Melkoth may be able to get us some incredible help with the fog path spell, for instance if he gives us a speed up time element to the fog path spell that'd be incredible.

I'm not expecting it mind but it's maybe in the cards.
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Was it? Hmm, I must have missed that part. I could have sworn it was just in general, since Melkoth did contribute to the roll as well.
In the meantime, I've actually been thinking about how the fog path spell might be used in combat, depending on how it takes shape—which is counting chickens early, but my imagination has a way of escaping me, and I just know the Grey College would still look for combat applications just in case—and something like a time dilation effect would be really interesting, actually. Like, if it were just the basic path of fog, I could easily see enhancing charges with it by giving units a clear path, but time-warping to speed up a charge would be even better. Or, if it's something like the idea of going in one fog bank and out another, strategic redeployment of entire units is also pretty devastating.
 
I wonder hoe the social turn is going to work during the campaign event?

Turn 32 will be split between a normal turn and a number (a dozen?) of campaign turns. During the previous expedition we had social actions available, but that was before we switched separated normal and social actions. It would be rather awkward to have the campaign in-between the normal T32 and Social T32.

So at a guess:
-T32, with 2-3 actions blocked off.
-T32 short social, just picking who will see us off / get a visit before we go.
-March 1 mechanical stuff
-March 1 social
-M2 mechanical
-M2 social
and so on.
Then straight to T32 council meeting when we get back.

Thoughts, opinions?
 
Actually any one tempted by the idea of talking to Melkoth and basically giving him a full context dump of everything we're working on outside of the liber mortis and asking if there's anything he thinks he can teach that would be really useful spending another 10 CF on him?
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Actually any one tempted by the idea of talking to Melkoth and basically giving him a full context dump of everything we're working on outside of the liber mortis and asking if there's anything he thinks he can teach that would be really useful spending another 10 CF on him?
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What are we working on? The AV? The Path spell?

If we include anything else on that list we'd have to make a commitment to it in the first place. Like, I'd be happy to make those commitments, because actually getting confirmation from other people in the thread, in a vote, that we want to work on this or that would be nice, but we would need to pin each other down on the topics.
 
chocolote12 said:
What are we working on? The AV? The Path spell?

If we include anything else on that list we'd have to make a commitment to it in the first place. Like, I'd be happy to make those commitments, because actually getting confirmation from other people in the thread, in a vote, that we want to work on this or that would be nice, but we would need to pin each other down on the topics.
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Well the path spell for one, but I'd love to work on other magic things with him. Dude's a hundred year old Battle mage, must have insights galore and I want to learn what ever he can share.

That said I suspect AV and theurgy aren't things he could help with much but like just improving our understand of Ulgu is gotta be something he could help with.
 
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Alliterate said:
Matilde: "What tricks do I have up my sleeve for the Expedition? Yes, I know I said my other superweapons weren't ready for deployment.
No, these aren't those ideas. This is more spur of the moment, like the Blood Menhir of Dragons.
I've got a brand new technique to keep the steam wagons on track. Mhorzhuf tracks, you might say. Even Gotri might call it untested, I only came up with this idea last month.
My other ideas for your Karak... well, lets just say if you see more than one of me around at once, looking extra-shadowy, don't worry unless it's... well, hmm, maybe just call me."
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It's a good thing Belegar is a dwarf and thus immensely resistant to heavy drinking.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Well in this instance I'm hoping there's stuff he can teach us related to battle magic to make it safer for us, but I'm not like thinking that's a remote guarantee.
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I have serious doubts we are going to get that.
Like, the whole point is that Battle Magic is very powerful, and equally risky. Making it safer disrupts the balance and just encourages power creep that is alreay kinda out of hand.
We want safe(ish) Battle Magic, we make our own (i am super in favor of us making our own Battle Magic).
 
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