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The belief that we'd need a mind in order to make it was a belief wholly originated within the thread, which I have then seen people repeat as though it were canon.
It wasn't wholly originated within the thread. The challenge of the Sevirscope was always the difficulty of interpreting the winds without a mind serving as an interface. Using a mind made of Ulgu does seem like a valid way around it.
 
The biggest benefit from Ghenna's knowledge probably relates to AV.

AV was always pointed out to be an incredibly limited source that only Mathilde has which scuttled most thoughts of spreading it. But since we know that the Gold college binds apperations it opens the door for Mathilde to collaborate with the Gold college as an institution to produce AV, which they have 2 primary good reasons for: Use for their alchemy and trading to Runesmiths for unlimited runeworks. We know from Johan that the Gold college as an institution tries to get on the dwarves good side so creating a flourishing AV trade is something the Gold college would be very intersted in.
 
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Our nifty new book that slices the definition legally but almost definitely not in any real way. I mean we know what the chaos cultists think of Apparitions they call them daemons as well.
There is one major question in regards to crafting magic like GGH. Are the GGH apparitions after the transformation? Bound to a wizard's soul and immersed in Charmon are they still dark hounds? Or are they something different? Steel is not iron. It comes from iron, but the process of creation changes the nature of the iron. Is something similar happening with GGHs? Is the process of creating them fundamentally changing their nature so they are no longer apparitions but something else?
 
Does make me wonder what drove the first Gehenna to do this particular thing, though. Like, there's plenty of ways to achieve that awesome, but what made them say, "You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to hunt down and tie a not-demon to my soul." When there hadn't been any previous examples that such a thing was even possible, let alone a good idea?
The first Gehenna was quite likely an elf. Though as people mentioned, this is also pretty much exactly the mindset behind domestication.
 
Sounds a bit like the ritual to create an Incarnate where a human sacrifice is combined with buttloads of magic to create an elemental of the magic.

Though I would not advise drowning people in AV to find out.
And anyone I'd be willing to drown in AV I'd really rather not have them become the core of a magical entity with a small storm of magic's worth of energy inside...
Thats the rub I guess.
Well... we could put the word out that we're looking for a Magister who's close to death that wouldn't mind taking a gamble on immortality? Or even better, dabbing on all of their academic peers from beyond the grave on how committed to advancing academia they are?
 
The difference between an "apparition" and a "daemon" is political agenda.


Like, if Khorne is a human, then a random bloodletter is a cell. That's the scale gods operate on compared to daemons. A wisdom's asp is like, one particular single-celled organism.
I am very confused by these statements, because they seem to contradict one another. The difference between "a cell that is a component of a multicellular organism" and "a cell that is an organism unto itself" is a very real, substantive, observable difference. Like, trivially so. Defining "apparitions" as single-celled organisms and "daemons" as "cells of Four large organisms that we don't want to fuck with" does not seem to me to be in any way arbitrary or political: it's something you can easily check and a distinction which exists in reality.
It wasn't wholly originated within the thread. The challenge of the Sevirscope was always the difficulty of interpreting the winds without a mind serving as an interface. Using a mind made of Ulgu does seem like a valid way around it.
The seviroscope was never mentioned in the quest except as an option for enchanting actions and the recent Gold patriarch interaction. None of these talked about the difficulty of interpreting the winds without a mind serving as an interface.
[ ] Attempt to enchant an object to translate Windsight into a visual image.
Gold Order creates and supplies a 'seviroscope' - a way to provide Windsight without interacting with the brain
You spend some time mentally wrestling with the idea of a device for visualizing the Winds, but you're still at least reasonably confident you could be able to build one yourself, so the other possibility comes to the fore.
I maintain that this is a difficulty that originated within the thread. It might be a very real difficulty! I definitely see how having a mind along would make it easier. But it has never been stated textually to be a must-have.
 
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Isn't the staff of Volans said to give +2 Magic?
I doubt we get anything that good.

The Staff of Volans in TT grants +2 to casting spells and casting spells alone. So depending on how it translates here it's anything from +1-+3 magic but only for the purpose of spell casting counter spelling it doesn't assist with.

The Staff of Volans can also be used with literally any wind of magic.
 
The seviroscope was never mentioned in the quest except as an option for enchanting actions and the recent Gold patriarch interaction. None of these talked about the difficulty of interpreting the winds without a mind serving as an interface.
I agree that it may not be necessary. That said, one of your own quotes literally goes " 'seviroscope' - a way to provide Windsight without interacting with the brain" which is the source of the thread belief.
 
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Should not be a concern, seeing as the Ambers use the Bleak Swarm to power their spell to summon a murder of crows and the other name for the Bleak Swarm are the Eyes of Nurgle.

A Name could be just that
That was a response to a post about 'pack sizes', singular or group, and the relative power of the Apparition.
 
"And the same method would work for any Apparition?"

"In theory. Our best guess is that the Ambers use the Bleak Swarm, and the Jades use the Whispering Darkness, but we don't actually know if they use the same technique

Should not be a concern, seeing as the Ambers use the Bleak Swarm to power their spell to summon a murder of crows and the other name for the Bleak Swarm are the Eyes of Nurgle.
That got confident fast.
 
I am very confused by these statements, because they seem to contradict one another. The difference between "a cell that is a component of a multicellular organism" and "a cell that is an organism unto itself" is a very real, substantive, observable difference. Like, trivially so. Defining "apparitions" as single-celled organisms and "daemons" as "cells of Four large organisms that we don't want to fuck with" does not seem to me to be in any way arbitrary or political: it's something you can easily check and a distinction which exists in reality.

Depends on the multicelluar organism. There are a lot of multicellular organisims where the cells are fully capable of independent action and going their own way.
 
Depends on the multicelluar organism. There are a lot of multicellular organisims where the cells are fully capable of independent action and going their own way.
But that doesn't change the fact that one cell is a single cell organism and the other cell exists in it's own ecosystem of multiple cells.
 
...I'm not sure that those are multicellular organisms. Algae colonies, maybe. Not multicellular organisms.

There is no clean distinction between multicellular organisms and cellular colonies. It's a fuzzy gradient from fully independent through increasing mutuality until you reach fully dependent on each other. Arguably even humans have colony like aspects too with how important our gut bacteria are to our proper functioning with them still not being part of our system.
 
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I agree that it may not be necessary. That said, one of your own quotes literally goes " 'seviroscope' - a way to provide Windsight without interacting with the brain"

A device that outputs results with out directly interacting through the brain is certainly possible. The scope needs to be able to sense magic and output it through an illusion(One which sits externally to the person using it). I'll grant that this is not a trivial project but I don't believe it's remotely impossible even with no animated intelligence to serve as the crutch.

The ideal would be a helmet or goggles that you wear which has a transparent lens and the illusion is made visible in a transparent fashion on the lens. Any novel phenomina that Mathilde can see that doesn't come through actual sight would need to be rendered into visible spectrum in some other way that's consistent, whether that's a mathamatical representation in pure numbers given a Y value to correspond to the sense it would normally be linked to.

For instance Waaagh had a taste to it, you could represent that with a numerical description with multiple parts to it and giving the numbers a colour to specifically represent which sense it was linked to as well for another method of quickly encoding more information.

The difficult part of this is obviously the translation of the magical sensor into an output for the illusion spell.


Yes and one solution to this is to give the enchanted object itself a metaphorical brain.

The easiest solution, although we'd need a metaphorical brain for that and apparitions aren't going to be useful for this.
 
Given that Gazul Lore gives some insight to the nature of the soul, before we start considering binding things to it I think we should swear the required oaths and get Gunnars to teach us.

Bok seems to be 'programmed' and has something where a soul would be, but it's an open question as to whether it's an actual soul that arose from complexity or whether it's something created for it. Although arguably minor Gods of things like rivers or mountains could be argued to be a related concept, where something sufficiently large and complicated gives rise to something very like a soul - though this could be reliant on the belief of already ensouled beings to give rise to this.

I believe you can actually go and meet Lorili, Naiad of the Reik in the material world. She's something different to a god, being a placebound spirit living in reality, and still hasn't got over her high elven husband following the Phoenix King's command returning to Ulthuan, but apart from that she's relatively communicative and civilized. More so than some other Naiads, who like drowning people a bit too much...

The minor, more regional gods are quite interesting here.

Correct. The 'spell' portion of it is fairly straightforward, all the complexity and danger is in wrangling the beastie.

I wonder if we could make magic items/battle altars/towers that help with this. Or even commission runic items/upgrades to make it safer, although that has its own risks
 
What if we marry the know-how of familiar binding Appirations with the Arabys item binding Djinns?

We could make Appirations possessed arms & armor no Daemons ™! :V
 
I certainly feel that we should master Battle Magic before we branch out into Apparition binding. Battle-Magic grade Ulgu and an Apparition are equally unruly, but at least we have experience and direct control over the former.
 
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