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Okay I was doing an effort post, but yeah there are solid reasons for the Institute, apparently that actually wasn't my problem with it.

I just realized I don't like the research bits of the quest as much as everything else, so the Institutes promise of More Better Research doesn't appeal to me.

I guess I'm on team Boat Boon now.
 
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Is a well-cited nitpick a nitpickle?
because that's what a Grand liberty would look like at least in the beginning.
Just presumably more stone, less Umgi madness of storing precious, flammable items on shelves of wood.
I don't like the branch college idea. I've never liked the branch college idea.

I just can't get excited about it. I look at all the ideas people are talking about and I'm just thinking that it sounds cool, in a general acknowledgement way, but I've never much enjoyed the learning stuff in CKII quests and can't see myself enjoying all the effort it would take to set up or finding the payoff nice enough to make all the actions worth it imo.
I get that. I find the academic study bits very dry- pouring over the properties of AV or staring at Ranald and the Warp or whatever- are the only parts I find myself skipping when I re-read updates.
 
Our library is noted as already being like one of the biggest private collections in the continent tho?

It touches on something I said before: you can add ever more books on ever more esoteric subjects, but how much does that matter?
I'm sorry, what? I don't remember what I this. And—putting aside my own love and fascination for books to an extent where this question legitimately hurts me in my soul—to Mathilde? Quite a fucking lot. One of her biggest problems with the Empire and humans in general is the near-constant purging of knowledge in its various forms. Research, on the other hand? It's nice to do and her own personal projects are quite important, but just funding research for researches sake isn't particularly one of her main values and there's already multiple other institutions doing that much more able to survive the ravages of time.
EDIT: Also, a personal collection is very, very different from an actual library, let alone a Great Library.
 
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@TotallyNotEvil probably is referring to this Boney quote:

Which I personally interpreted as "spending a second GD to get it actually built won't accomplish a ton if we want it built inside K8P."

Drop the cute animal pics at the usual place.
snorts that fine cut information



Yes. That is threat. And it applies to YOU TOO, READER
 
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I'm sorry, what? I don't remember what I this. And—putting aside my own love and fascination for books to an extent where this question legitimately hurts me in my soul—to Mathilde? Quite a fucking lot. One of her biggest problems with the Empire and humans in general is the near-constant purging of knowledge in its various forms. Research, on the other hand? It's nice to do and her own personal projects are quite important, but just funding research for researches sake isn't particularly one of her main values and there's already multiple other institutions doing that much more able to survive the ravages of time.
And isn't an institution dedicated to the pursuit of the expansion and subsequent preservation of said knowledge an even grander change than a mere repository?

Also, the question was a more practical one, FYI.

Also, Mathilde's collection is closer to a bibliophile multimillionaire's than anything resembling a normal personal collection.
 
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Is a well-cited nitpick a nitpickle?
you fucking junkie.

...

Well, you gonna sharesies or not!?

:p
----
Edit: I misread; I thought you were asking if that "nitpick was well cited". Your weird.... is.... cool, for you; sure. But that just ain't my scene fam. Sorry if I gave the wrong impressions.
 
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And isn't an institution dedicated to the pursuit of the expansion and subsequent preservation of said knowledge an even grander change than a mere repository?
no. No it is not, especially when, as I pointed out, there are multiple other institutions who can and will survive already doing that. But Libraries? keeping said knowledge that is discovered untouched and unpurged over the centureies? That has proven nearly impossible for anybody but the dwarves throughout Mallus's history. But honestly, the biggest problem I have is that comparing the differences between "small College" and Big College" to the differences between "Mathilde's personal Library" and "Great Library backed by a Boon" Just doesn't work. We lose so much more by not spending it on the Library.
 
In the end, I see far, far more opportunities for Interesting Things to happen and get done if tell Belegar to go nuts building us Postgrad Hogwarts.

That's most of the reason I don't see much appeal in the Library option. It feels like we had little idea on what to say and defaulted to something that'd be nice to get... and little more.
 
But honestly, the biggest problem I have is that comparing the differences between "small College" and Big College" to the differences between "Mathilde's personal Library" and "Great Library backed by a Boon" Just doesn't work. We lose so much more by not spending it on the Library.
Wow, I massively disagree. Getting collective hundreds of years of magical expertise and practice vs books on specific Cathayan plants? Ind funerary rites?

It's the difference between having three wizards working on something versus thirty wizards working on something.
No it is not, especially when, as I pointed out, there are multiple other institutions who can and will survive already doing that. But Libraries? keeping said knowledge that is discovered untouched and unpurged over the centureies?
And what research institution has been untouched for centuries? They are in and of themselves libraries and repositories of knowledge.

That particular argument doesn't make much sense.
 
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I'd be on #BoatBoon if I saw a point in it beyond "it's cool". Like I get it, but what would we even do with it? I collect enough cool shit that I'll never do anything with IRL.

Stop researching, and just explore the world. The Boat boon is for those who want Mathilde to explore the wider world, it's the premiere tool Mathilde could realistically ask for.
 
I imagine a Book Boon library would give us a bonus that would make our current library look like our first greatsword compared to Branulhune. Yeah they're the same thing. But if you said that to Kraggs face, your face would try to run away in fear of his grumbling.

I'd be on #BoatBoon if I saw a point in it beyond "it's cool". Like I get it, but what would we even do with it? I collect enough cool shit that I'll never do anything with IRL.
That was just a funny way of saying I would take anything but the Research branch, since anything else would fall outside of R&D. Hell I'd settle for using it to get Belegar to train that mystical Ogre weaver frankly.
 
One thing I think worth noting: Circumstances have conspired for us to do something truly unique and credibly start a research institute focused on cross disciplinary research.

Mathilde has the contacts, between her friendship with the dwarfs and the upcoming waystone project and so on. She also has the experience managing wizards of multiple colleges (and even a semi-relevant trait...) There's also the more mundane side of research, with the gunnery school and radical dwarf engineers.

A post-graduate level, research focused college branch which an emphasis on coming and working with people that can't be found anywhere else would be something truly unique for this time period in the setting, and combo nicely with a library, whatever combination of boon and great deeds we use to get there.
 
Indeed, big libraries already exist all around the work. The dwarfs themselves have libraries eight thousand years old.

A place that can study cross-disciplinary subjects would be revolutionary.
I imagine a Book Boon library would give us a bonus that would make our current library look like our first greatsword compared to Branulhune. Yeah they're the same thing. But if you said that to Kraggs face, your face would try to run away in fear of his grumbling.
It's capped by how many factions produce relevant literature on the subject and how many languages we speak.
 
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One idea that I favor for a Grand Library is to secretly dedicate it to Ranald the Deceiver. X-shaped and containing multitudes of library cats it could unknowingly be designed in such a way for such a reason.
 
In the end, I see far, far more opportunities for Interesting Things to happen and get done if tell Belegar to go nuts building us Postgrad Hogwarts.

That's most of the reason I don't see much appeal in the Library option. It feels like we had little idea on what to say and defaulted to something that'd be nice to get... and little more.
And I see the same possibility for all those things to still happen if we built Hogwarts ourselves. I also see an equal amount of opportunities for Interesting Things--not to mention the Narrative support of Mathilde actually achieveing a thing she cares about and has been shown to care about-- in the Library that I don't see happening if we just built it ourselves.
And what research institution has been untouched for centuries? They are in and of themselves libraries and repositories of knowledge.

That particular argument doesn't make much sense.
The Colleges, at least. They're still around and kicking since they were first established, despite several attempts to destroy them... but many of their libraries and repositories of knowledge did not survive. You are also seriously trivializing what kind of books or rare knowledge could be collected with Belegar's weight behind it.
 
I just don't really get the point of a branch college. Nearly anything that could be researched there could be done as well or better in the already existing colleges- the only thing I can think of would be runesmithing + wizardry, which would benefit from having wizards conveniently placed in a Karak for Runesmiths to collaborate with, but that seems like a bit of an ask in general- they are, as has been stated multiple times, a very conservative sort. I'm not saying they couldn't come around, Kragg sort-of did, but that was after quite a bit of time exposing him to Mathilde, as well as Mathilde being a Mathilde Zhufokri, rather than an Umgi Zhufokri.

With the library, I get it, it's relying on Dwarfs for something they're very good at and humans aren't- consistent policy over time. (Along with libraries being big expensive moneysinks in general, which moves them up the chopping block for human budgets, but Dwarfs benefit from both their usual meticulousness and ability to manage climate control to avoid the books getting all musty, and from the huge vaults of gold they accrue practically by habit)

As well as Mathilde's personal thoughts on the lack of long-term access to libraries and histories in the Empire.

The Book of Grudges, as all who know even a little of the Dwarves know, is the single tome containing every wrong the Dwarven Empire has yet to avenge. What even a little knowledge of their history would indicate is that no one tome could contain those Grudges with enough detail for those born long after those acts to avenge them. King Belegar was told to follow the High King, who told you to follow him, and the two of you walk out of the Hall and into a room that could be described as large were it not for the one you just left. Row after innumerable row of bookshelves of the Archives of the Karaz Ankor bridge the terse inventory of the Dammaz Kron with the exhaustive detail that would allow the Dwarves to know that vengeance has been done, and the room is a hive of busy activity, as a dozen venerable Longbeards each act as the center of their own swarms of younger disciples. As the High King orders the retrieval of the books on the Siege and Fall of Karak Eight Peaks, your eyes widen as you run your eyes over perfectly-preserved tomes of recorded history.

The Light Order do their best, but the Colleges have only been around for a fraction of the Empire's length, and before that a hundred tragedies each shaved away a record of history. The Great Library of Mordheim died with the city, the Sieges of Altdorf each resulted in a freezing populace burning books for heat, the Imperial Library suffered attrition every time the capital moved and was stolen back and forth a dozen times during the Age of the Three Emperors, and Dieter IV sold a good deal of what little survived to reach him to anyone willing to pay. And if that wasn't enough of a reason for his soul to be damned, when he sold Marienburg its independence, it took the Great Library of Verena with it, and ever since the self-righteous custodians have delighted in denying entry to citizens of the Empire. The Vaults of the Great Cathedral of Sigmar are purged every time a more conservative Grand Theogonist takes office, and there's Witch Hunters out there who consider literacy to be compelling evidence of witchcraft, and even when some poor scholar escapes the pyre it's not always guaranteed their books will.

A hundred hundred roadblocks between the average human and their past, but since the first founding of Karaz-a-Karak, every single event to ever befall the Dwarves has been carefully recorded and remains right here, carefully preserved by rune and artifice.
 
I just don't really get the point of a branch college.

The point is simple. Huge portions of the thread are crying for more research actions. There is no magic to get more research AP, except for the magic of having an organization of minions at your beck and call to collaborate with - that, the Greed Deed grants you. That is, in the crudest and most basic form what a Branch College is. It's a Research Institute under Mathilde's control, meant to help pursue the various moonshot projects the thread has at a rate much better than the one action dedicated to research per turn. The Transcendental Boon takes and turbocharges the Research Institute in a way only the patronage of one of the richest states of the Old World can, far beyond anything Mathilde can hope to achieve with her personal resources.
 
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Indeed, big libraries already exist all around the work. The dwarfs themselves have libraries eight thousand years old.

A place that can study cross-disciplinary subjects would be revolutionary.

It's capped by how many factions produce relevant literature on the subject and how many languages we speak.
...And absolutely none of those libraries are accessible to humans. Not without them having regular purges in some form or another.
 
And isn't an institution dedicated to the pursuit of the expansion and subsequent preservation of said knowledge an even grander change than a mere ?

Also, the question was a more practical one, FYI.

Also, Mathilde's collection is closer to a bibliophile multimillionaire's than anything resembling a normal personal collection.
I thinking you're mistaking a modern public library with an old school national library.

they are a lot more than a repository.

the two biggest was reprinting and translating and providing space and resources for cross-discipline projects and group work. as having peer papers on a subject not 'yours' or your guilds was very hard to come by.

teaching and lecturing on niche or specialised sub-subjects were next. (it mostly only exists today as book readings and guest speakers and community classes.

they are also community centres for the nerdy, 'quite in the library' is a new thing, talking and debating was encouraged.

also, museums and libraries were quite interchangeable at the time when it came to artefacts, but generally, a museum was for showing off, a library was for study.

Often, their collections include numerous rare, valuable, or significant works. and don't lend them out because of this, only allowing scholars to read them at the liberty itself. this means scholars would have to travel to the liberty if they want to check a reference on one of the books. so they often had sleeping area.

some scholars would literally live at a major liberty their whole career as it was the only place for them to get all the resources they needed for their study. often working in the liberty itself or providing services to the locals to make money such as reading and writing letters for people, giving expert or legal advice or tutoring sons of nobles.

.... I forgot where I was going with this, but don't want to delate all that so... here.
 
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