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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Alratan said:
I believe I came up with something:
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BoneyM said:
Alratan said:
You know, looking at the list of runes, if the Rune of Brotherhood works for and on non-dwarves, it would be incredibly valuable, as it greatly accelerates learning skills possessed by your comrades. This is invaluable for a wizard such as Mathilde.
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It doesn't. It might be possible to adapt it so that it does, but Dwarves haven't given the matter any investigation.
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Getting the Rune of Brotherhood to interface with the Wizard would be tricky.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
We have no idea if all rituals are more dangerous than Battle Magic. The fact that one of our ducklings (Gretel or Adela, I forget which) has learnt about rituals and actually has ritual implements in her abode would strongly suggest that the Colleges think it's not nearly as dangerous, or she wouldn't be allowed.
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Yeah, that's Gretel.
BoneyM said:
The Citadel's North Tower is atop a spiralling staircase that would be quite daunting to anyone that doesn't live atop a mountain, which is why in the centre of that spiral there is a newly-restored system of pulleys and counterweights to lift residents, visitors and cargo to the lofty peak. The room awaiting you at the top is a chaotic jumble of a room, being part kitchen, part reading room, and part shrine, with the windows on each wall firmly blocked by thick curtains to keep the heat in. Thick rugs cover the floor, cushions are strewn about in place of chairs, and a softly glowing ball of Shyish provides illumination. You give a carefully respectful bow to the shrine - a haughty-looking raven perched atop a skull, carved from stone - and busy yourself investigating the half-filled shelves. The books on Morr and Shyish you expected, but you do raise an eyebrow at the books on ritual magic, as do the ones on Tilean history.

There's a creak as a trapdoor in the roof opens and you turn to see Gretel climbing down the ladder on the wall next to it. "Magister," she says to you in greeting.
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No obvious ritual implements, but at least a few books.
It would be interesting to Social her and hear what's up with her interest in ritual magic.
 
Glau said:
If we need a person or if it can be automated is, I assume, where the disagreement is.
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... I may have also have been getting caught up on the differences between illusion and MMAP, as well as wondering why Mathilde herself couldn't just do all of this? Since it just seems to be something she already does, and thus something we wouldn't need a special item for?
veekie said:
Actually making a sevirscope requires designing and constructing the magical equivalent of a charge-coupled device to observe and translate observations to readings. You need something which can be contained, and which reacts to magical forces uniquely, and then to capture those reactions and translate them mechanically into an information display.
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We would also have to create an entire coding language that people could learn to understand what's being presented on the interface and how it applies to their own understandings of the arcane. At least, if I'm understanding this correctly.
 
Ericwinter said:
... I may have also have been getting caught up on the differences between illusion and MMAP, as well as wondering why Mathilde herself couldn't just do all of this? Since it just seems to be something she already does, and thus something we wouldn't need a special item for?

We would also have to create an entire coding language that people could learn to understand what's being presented on the interface and how it applies to their own understandings of the arcane. At least, if I'm understanding this correctly.
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Yes. Or you can use a specific person as your Standard Candle Operator, and undergo the much simpler process of learning how they specifically perceive magic and translate that to workability. This would quite the full time job however, and while good at investigating specific research items, is not going to give you the deeper theorywork any time soon..
 
veekie said:
Yes. Or you can use a specific person as your Standard Candle Operator, and undergo the much simpler process of learning how they specifically perceive magic and translate that to workability. This would quite the full time job however, and while good at investigating specific research items, is not going to give you the deeper theorywork any time soon..
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... you know, the more I think about it, the more it starts to sound like we're practically building a very simplified computer. Or something, I can't think of a specific example right now, but there probably is one. Maybe a sonar hooked up to an analytical program to create a geometric formula for describing its results, and a monitor for good measure.
 
Ericwinter said:
... you know, the more I think about it, the more it starts to sound like we're practically building a very simplified computer. Or something, I can't think of a specific example right now, but there probably is one. Maybe a sonar hooked up to an analytical program to create a geometric formula for describing its results, and a monitor for good measure.
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Mathilde will have to learn fourier transform for that :p
 
IronFist said:
Its a bit of mathematics useful for analyzing radar (and a lot of other waves). I'm also not remotely qualified to try to explain it :p
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Ah, okay. Yeah, it would probably require the magical equivalent, except we're more likely to be creating said thing, rather than learning it. Which is, admittedly, not the craziest thing Mathilde has ever done, but still.
 
Glau said:
The point is to display winds in a way that allows dwarves to see them. The other person is a combination of sensor and translator, to see the winds and convert them into a MMAP so they can be referenced by third parties. The scope would be to do it automatically, either removing the need to cast and update a MMAP while concentrating on windsight, or an attempt to automate the detection and translation process as well as the MMAP projection.

If we need a person or if it can be automated is, I assume, where the disagreement is.
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Bit worse than that.

The problem is, well, that magesight is really idiosyncratic, and that calling it sight is highly misleading; a straight visual translation of what Mathilde senses would be outright missing a substantial amount of data.

People are arguing over whether or not we can make a monitor when the actual problem is that we don't have any idea of where to start on UI design.
 
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Candesce said:
Bit worse than that.

The problem is, well, that magesight is really idiosyncratic, and that calling it sight is highly misleading; a straight visual translation of what Mathilde senses would be outright missing a substantial amount of data.

People are arguing over whether or not we can make a monitor when the actual problem is that we don't have any idea of where to start on UI design.
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Well, if simple colors don't work, we can always just resort to words or symbolism. We detect Waaagh as a taste rather than a color, but if an enchantment was detecting it, rather than trying to project the taste into people's mouths, it could instead just represent it as a repeating pattern or something. Or maybe it could just pop up words like 'WAAAGH Detected', and then use visual indicators to show where it's getting the readings from.
 
chocolote12 said:
Well, if simple colors don't work, we can always just resort to words or symbolism.
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Oh, I've never claimed the project is impossible. I'm in favour of trying.

Just, there's a reason it's a fucking hard project rather than something we can pay a few favours and have the colleges handle the labour for us.

And, um, whatever we make isn't going to be able to make judgement calls. The most we'll be able to get might be "waagh-associated energies in that direction," where Mathilde might be able to tell you what kind of greenskins we're talking about - or that no, that's a sensor ghost.
 
Candesce said:
Bit worse than that.

The problem is, well, that magesight is really idiosyncratic, and that calling it sight is highly misleading; a straight visual translation of what Mathilde senses would be outright missing a substantial amount of data.

People are arguing over whether or not we can make a monitor when the actual problem is that we don't have any idea of where to start on UI design.
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I mean, sorta?

Mathilde sees the Winds with colors alone, and Dhar could be represented by the color Black readily enough. Getting a comprehensive magical display would undeniably be tricky, but even a Winds-only version would be exceedingly useful for analyzing arcane constructs like Bok.

Divine stuff would require us to get exotic with things like overlaying a visual projection with tactile or temperature based sensations a Runesmith could physically feel, or stuff like that, but that's frankly a stretch-goal.
 
Glau said:
Ah! I think I get it. The point is to display winds in a way that allows dwarves to see them. The other person is a combination of sensor and translator, to see the winds and convert them into a MMAP so they can be referenced by third parties. The scope would be to do it automatically, either removing the need to cast and update a MMAP while concentrating on windsight, or an attempt to automate the detection and translation process as well as the MMAP projection.

If we need a person or if it can be automated is, I assume, where the disagreement is.
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The issue is that Windsight is deeply personal and presents its information metaphorically and allegorically in a way that makes sense to the wizard but wouldn't to someone else. We need to transmit that context to the dwarf.
kfrar said:
Getting the Rune of Brotherhood to interface with the Wizard would be tricky.
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A problem for Kragg or Thorek. It would probably work much better with Mathilde as the target as the dwarves don't consider her a human anymore.

THis is also why I wanted a wizard that could speak arcane dwarf, and possibly specifically an Ulgu enchantment about perception and memory involved, so the rune can lean on the Wind enchantment on the item as well as the auto-transcription function of a appropriate dwarf rune to do some of the heavy lifting, to use arcane dwarf as a partial conduit.

As a side note we should generally keep a big bank of dwarf favour in hand for when we do get our enchanting up to stuff so on all our projects we can pay for a runesmith to assist us and look for synergies. For example, even if we could do nothing else with it, having the Rune of the Unknown on the staff we make would be incredibly useful. Given how our sword can be fed Ulgu, I can also see a multi-use grounding rod with the Rune of the Unknown that eats the Ulgu of a miscast and can be summoned to hand in the instant you need it also being potentially possible.
 
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Candesce said:
And, um, whatever we make isn't going to be able to make judgement calls. The most we'll be able to get might be "waagh-associated energies in that direction," where Mathilde might be able to tell you what kind of greenskins we're talking about - or that no, that's a sensor ghost.
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Eh, judgement calls aren't really something I'm talking about; Is Waaagh detected? Where is Waaagh detected? Those are things a sensor could pick up. What those readings mean is for an operator to decide.
 
Another thought, but if this does end up anywhere near accurate, we will have created a device capable of detecting, quantifying, and outlining magical energies, along with a standardized system of understanding that. That would be... probably a pretty big thing, right? Like, really big? Especially if we could replicate it.
 
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Glau said:
So what do we think would be a useful ritual?
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I think if you are asking this question you shouldn't be using rituals. You shouldn't say "I want to do a ritual, let's pick one" you should say "I have a problem, how do I solve it?" If the only solution to that problem is a ritual, learn dangerous ritual magic. Otherwise, just solve the problem.
 
Klaus said:
I think if you are asking this question you shouldn't be using rituals. You shouldn't say "I want to do a ritual, let's pick one" you should say "I have a problem, how do I solve it?" If the only solution to that problem is a ritual, learn dangerous ritual magic. Otherwise, just solve the problem.
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I don't think learning how to do rituals is dangerous, just the creation and casting of such. And the latter's not particularly dangerous if you do it right, as opposed to Battle Magic, where sometimes the winds just twist out of your control despite your best efforts - the danger is instead that at step 76 you turned clockwise instead of counterclockwise, or somesuch.
 
chocolote12 said:
I'm not talking about 'a Waaagh'; Waaagh as energy is an established term, I was given to understand.
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We do have a waagh related trait... have we ever spitballed waagh affecting Ulgu spells? Hmm. Not according to the spell list.

@BoneyM: would a spell that hides an orc from the waagh field be doable? Or something that messes with the greenskins ability to sense the Waagh? Maybe have a Universal confusion effect propagate along the Waagh field? (I.e. effectively increasing it's range and area... but only against Greenskins)

Trying to think of something to top Waaagh and Peace
 
I guess for me it boils down to the idea that the only sensors I am aware of for non-physical energy fields are souls- manifestations of magical energy are easy to see, but I don't know anything that reacts to the concentration of winds or Waaagh without having a living mind attached.

Are there? Maybe a light spell that gets brighter or dimmer, the way the dragon overcharged Mathilde's? (Would ignore diving and Waaagh...)

Or maybe a concern of warpstone in between wind-attractive substances, whose growth gets measured by which direction and how fast it grows?

But until we can demonstrate an artificial soul of some sort, a seiverscope it's going to need a person in it.
 
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