Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
No you just do a drive by once week and you are golden.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
That... is a very different matter from a prolonged siege, and has little to do with any of the options beside the one which actually suggests reconquering the place. Removing the blockade does not equate conquering them, and it definitely doesn't require stopping them from trading, not in the long term at least, and even short term only counts if they throw their merchant vessels into the fight as well.
Even then, as I said in the previous post—admittedly answering you and not them—there are only two places on that map where Marienburg can actually blockade the river main river. Remove those, and you can get through just fine. It sure as hell doesn't require the large-scale destruction people seem to be implying.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Changing up trade routes will involve less death than a shooting war. The opposite impression is baffling.
No, but a theoretical blockade-bust would do its best to limit the damage to military targets.
Small in raw numbers, big in raw tonnage. On their own, Barak Varr can go toe to toe with the navy of entire nations.
Elvish pride does not react well to being threatened by humans.
Mathilde is being asked as an expert on the Dwarves, not as a Grey Wizard.
Promise, no. Give a prediction about whether they'd be willing, yes.
Included in Empire of Man.
All the negative consequences are falling on the Empire, so it's up to the Empire to decide whether it's a cause for war or not.
Almost certainly not.
It's not an act of war to defend yourself against assassins.
Warrior Clan. They tend to work differently to other clans in a number of ways, for fairly obvious reasons.
Train, guard trade routes, and go on minor expeditions.
For the same reason that Barak Varr bankrolled K8P.
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- Location
- Australia
The Empire will be weakened. Greenskins, cultists, and especially beastmen will take the opportunity to attack.
Then we bring dwarven ambassadors who swear that if Marienburg doesn't stop, the shooting starts. And dwarves are not known for swearing oaths they will not keep.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
IRL you'd have a point. But this is the Old World, where any place that isn't encircled by fortifications is as dangerous as any warzone. The roads pass through forests constantly full of beastmen, goblins and mythical beasts. The mountain passes have you contending with more goblins, orcs and skaven, possibly even dragon ogres if you are spectacularly unlucky.
Securing consistent trade routes through all that is absolutely going to cost more Imperial and Dawi lives than even if all of the Ironclads sent were to sink with all hands lost.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
A war with Marienburg and Ulthuan isn't likely to strengthen the empire either.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
No changing trade routes will involve more deaths because all possible routes are rife with Orcs and Beastmen. They need to be cleared which means more death than a few that might die on Ironclads.
No option in this list strengethen the Empire. We are just choosing where to take the hit.
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Marching dwarfs though beast men ambush over and area the size of all Central Europe will cost orders of magnitude more lives than shooting at walls from an ironclad.
- Location
- Greece
Considering how many pages if discussion there have been, this thread has been remarkably civil. Bravo guys.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
This, I think, is a claim that really needs to be backed by the GM.
We got a lot of explanations on stuff already, it seems very unlikely to me that something like "mass casualties" would fail to be mentioned.
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Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
And as dwarves, their best is probably very good.
- Location
- Austria
Otoh they have to do it anyway, there is no way to avoid having to secure trade routes.
And cleaning up roads is something they got to do time to time anyway.
Compared to that, distracting Barak Varr navy to go around entire not!Europe to go get stuck in a fight with Netherlands expy (who may or may not have support of Ulthuan) is a way more avoidable expense.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
It's already backed from the fact that only one of the options outlined flat out states will have both the Karaz Ankor and the Empire significantly weakened for years, and it isn't the option of gunboat diplomacy. Not might weaken, or could weaken, will weaken.
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Humans would have to do it anyway in the normal run of things and to a lesser scale. Humans breed quicker and are not a dying race spectacularly ill equipped to fight in forests.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
... you realize the whole point of the canal is so they don't, in fact, have to secure other, much more dangerous options? They're an alternative, not something that's happening anyway.
*Looks at other elves we've met.*
With our new super plan - namely: throw wood elves at it - absolutely nothing can go wrong!
Meanwhile, one wonders how to get elves and Dwarfs to play ball... Mathilde will be soon to be known as the insane maniac who acts as the go-between for trade deals between Dwarfs / Elves.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
- Location
- Austria
I mean, option's description is "find alternative routes and pay money to Empire", so I am actually not quite sure where the whole "mass casualties" thing came from.
Really, what's up with the idea that economic response is going to be bloodier than naval war? Did I miss some WoGM that the "economic help" option is somehow "Karaz Ankor takes and holds all land and mans every trade post no matter cost in lives"?
This does not say mass casualties though? This says "costs influence to reroute trade so that it costs less to Empire to live in Marienburg blockade". Securing routes involves some risk, likely, but this is manifestly not a citation on mass casualties.
If the option involved something like "KaK marches on Sylvania and Badlands and loses thousands to secure trade", or something of similar magnitude, I am rather certain it would be mentioned explicitly, and not as "influence".
Edit: really, idea of economic help being more bloody than, you know, war, is just weird. Wars are not known for being peaceful, even limited ones.
They also have a bad habit of not staying limited, especially once weird alliances are invoked, but that's another matter.
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It's secure land routes though the Old World, the Old World outside fortified bastions of civilizations is filled with an endless stream of murderous monstrosities. That is a fundamental fact of the setting,
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
lol, not after plan blockade cracking goes through if the chamberlain is enough of a maniac to think its a good idea.
- Location
- Austria
This then folds into kind of thing everyone is doing each time they send caravan, and Dawi caravans were manned with Dawi even before, so presenting it as suddenly mass casualties where there where none before makes no sense.