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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Ericwinter said:
Towers and dwarf built walls. Like I said, it would take excessive amounts of effort, but theoretically possible. Obscurity is a good defense too though. Almost wonder if we couldn't find a good way to reinforce that with magic.
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Okay, but why do that instead of just running what ever it is you want out of K8P? I mean I guess there are people in the border princes that would refuse to move, but for us the idea of a magic research bunker is better handled out of K8P where we have easy access to resources of all kinds.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Okay, but why do that instead of just running what ever it is you want out of K8P? I mean I guess there are people in the border princes that would refuse to move, but for us the idea of a magic research bunker is better handled out of K8P where we have easy access to resources of all kinds.
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Oh, I agree. I wasn't trying to argue for it, just acknowledging that technically it could be possible if enough people decided they really wanted to turn this into a ruling quest.
 
BurnNote said:
See, this is what I'm talking about. This is the first library pitch that actually made me consider it. More of this, please. I'm not convinced it's anywhere as cool as a flying dreadnought or a teleportation network or even a collage branch specialised in superweapons, but for the first time I'm willing to entertain the possibility that it could be.
So tell me about book pilgrims making book sacrifices and being book jealous of the book lady with her book bed in her book halls, because that at least could be interesting.
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When nerds meet, they engage in an intricate dominance struggle (/mating dance) based on things like academic papers written and tenure. Wizards can also substitute Wizard Towers for academia, except possibly Ambers (the brainless jocks of the Wizarding world). This would automatically ensure our dominance over all fellow nerds that aren't at least at the Tower stage, and even then we can bring in our five (five!) Wizard Towers to crush them with our deep Dwarf Favor reserves.

Anyone who isn't completely cowed by our academic might should be married immediately, so it's also useful for the Romance vote.
 
Guile said:
When nerds meet, they engage in an intricate dominance struggle (/mating dance) based on things like academic papers written and tenure. Wizards can also substitute Wizard Towers for academia, except possibly Ambers (the brainless jocks of the Wizarding world). This would automatically ensure our dominance over all fellow nerds that aren't at least at the Tower stage, and even then we can bring in our five (five!) Wizard Towers to crush them with our deep Dwarf Favor reserves.

Anyone who isn't completely cowed by our academic might should be married immediately, so it's also useful for the Romance vote.
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Do we even need the Towers, given all our other current and future possible academic discoveries? Even with a fair chunk being classified we're pretty well published, and if we get something like Theurgy or AV going... well. Nobody could touch us then.
 
Historyman14 said:
Kragg embodies the Dwarf worst traits as much as he carry the strength and the talents of the Dwarf people, just as Thorek is able to bare more strength and the talents that overcome the sheer stubborn mindset that is both a gift and a burden to the Dwarfs.
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I'd just like to remind everyone that despite Thorek being Kragg's opposite (the Lex Luthor to his Superman, perhaps), that doesn't make him some sort of Gotri-like radical.

He's still so hidebound he prefers the (runic) crossbow over those new-fangled guns. His point of pride is being able to do anything technology and progress can do with runes instead.
Lupercal said:
They would probably build it to the same height as the other status. Future generations will argue that Mathilde was the first dwarf wizard.
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Future Wizard, observing the statue of the First Dwarf Wizard: "Huh, it turns out they don't have beards. I'm kind of disappointed."
 
IronFist said:
1) Kragg does not play well with others. He has no peers, and he knows it.
2) Kragg dislikes Thorek. And i'm pretty sure it's not the background level dislike he has for everything as a Living Ancestor
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I know both of those things very intimately (I asked the question that produced the original WOG), which is why my plan is trying to plan around that.

My plan, and I am sorry if I wrote it in a way that wasn't clear, is not about letting them share OR cooperate. It is about giving them both the resources to conduct the same research INDEPENDENTLY.

To state it in simpler terms: Bok is not Kragg's, and neither is the Seviroscope, so they can share both of those, and Kragg cannot object on Thorek discovering the same things Kragg does with his own skill without negating his own worldview: its obvious, after all, that given the same conditions, Kragg will discover more than Thorek, so why would he object in sharing MATHILDE's seviroscope or K8P's construct? They are not his. He won't have to actually cooperate with anyone or share any of his secrets, he'll just have to study the same thing as another person at the same time independently, with his findings being his Thorek's findings being Thorek's. Its just another chance for him to reinforce his superiority by proving that under the same conditions, he'll discover more and faster.
 
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You know what we should do regarding the Border Princes? We should buy a deed and then instead of trying to make a useless piece of land prosper we give it to Anton.

Look me in the eyes and tell me he wouldn't make the perfect prince charming. Also, dragons are well known to be attracted to royalty, so this also doubles as Asarnil bait.
 
Guile said:
When nerds meet, they engage in an intricate dominance struggle (/mating dance) based on things like academic papers written and tenure. Wizards can also substitute Wizard Towers for academia, except possibly Ambers (the brainless jocks of the Wizarding world). This would automatically ensure our dominance over all fellow nerds that aren't at least at the Tower stage, and even then we can bring in our five (five!) Wizard Towers to crush them with our deep Dwarf Favor reserves.

Anyone who isn't completely cowed by our academic might should be married immediately, so it's also useful for the Romance vote.
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It is true that a huge library is great to establish nerd dominance. But does she need it?

First, who could possibly claim to have a better tower? The only one I can think of is Teclis. Algard's is pretty good too, though I don't think it does anything except play bait. What Wizard could stand in the face of her towering might?
Second, who could claim greater tenure? She is longest serving human loremaster, and dwarfs are the greatest experts on tenure.
Third, who could claim greater contribution than Queekish? If they don't know about such a defining work, then they can't be very knowledgeable. There's also Waagh and Peace, as well as the rest of our super fancy papers.
Fourth, who has a better library? The size is only middling, but there's some really stand-out pieces. That really big magic book, a pre-print of Queekish in the authors own hand, and the bloody Liber Mortis. When it comes to big bad books, there's not much left short of getting our hands on the books of Nagash
 
Guile said:
I'd just like to remind everyone that despite Thorek being Kragg's opposite (the Lex Luthor to his Superman, perhaps), that doesn't make him some sort of Gotri-like radical.

He's still so hidebound he prefers the (runic) crossbow over those new-fangled guns. His point of pride is being able to do anything technology and progress can do with runes instead.
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Ehh, the guns issue is a Karak Azul thing, not a Thorek thing. I reread a chapter where Kazador tells Mathilde something along the lines of "good shot, there might be something to that gunpowder thing."
If Thorek was shooting something, he'd probably use a crossbow because it's what he's proficient in and familiar with, and the fact that a Runic Crossbow is probably better than a handgun (which, to date can't have runes). He's not a radical... just has a more open mindset than Kragg. And you arguably can't get more narrow minded than Kragg, so it's not a great achievement. The fact that he interacts with his peers (and is not separated by close to a millennium from them) is probably why he is considered the best Runelord the dwarfs have, even though Kragg is Superiorly skilled.
 
New plan:
1) Go to Lustria
2) Help magic frogs exterminate rat bases.
3) Use Slann Favour to raise a new mountain range between Border Princes and Bad Lands.
4) Use Dwarf Favour to fortify new mountain range.
5) Conquer the now much more defensible Boarder Princes.
6) Be princess Mathilde.
 
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Guile said:
When nerds meet, they engage in an intricate dominance struggle (/mating dance) based on things like academic papers written and tenure. Wizards can also substitute Wizard Towers for academia, except possibly Ambers (the brainless jocks of the Wizarding world). This would automatically ensure our dominance over all fellow nerds that aren't at least at the Tower stage, and even then we can bring in our five (five!) Wizard Towers to crush them with our deep Dwarf Favor reserves.

Anyone who isn't completely cowed by our academic might should be married immediately, so it's also useful for the Romance vote.
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Reread the bit where the two Amber journeymen investigate the We again, they're not brainless jocks, they're physically active nerds!
Very active.
 
BurnNote said:
It is true that a huge library is great to establish nerd dominance. But does she need it?

First, who could possibly claim to have a better tower? The only one I can think of is Teclis. Algard's is pretty good too, though I don't think it does anything except play bait. What Wizard could stand in the face of her towering might?
Second, who could claim greater tenure? She is longest serving human loremaster, and dwarfs are the greatest experts on tenure.
Third, who could claim greater contribution than Queekish? If they don't know about such a defining work, then they can't be very knowledgeable. There's also Waagh and Peace, as well as the rest of our super fancy papers.
Fourth, who has a better library? The size is only middling, but there's some really stand-out pieces. That really big magic book, a pre-print of Queekish in the authors own hand, and the bloody Liber Mortis. When it comes to big bad books, there's not much left short of getting our hands on the books of Nagash
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Nagash might beat her out.

Nagashizzar has very big towers, and if you count his Black Pyramid as a tower-like object he can really style on basically everyone else.
He has written some of the most sought-after papers in the world (Particularly his big seven are hunted and killed for regularly).
And he has done some great contributions to the world, like inventing a new magic and wiping out Nehekara.

Only his library is not overly impressive, but propably still about equal to ours.

Edit: In terms of tenure he looses hard though. He lost his last steady job as high priest millenia ago and has been NEET ever since.
 
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Angelform said:
New plan:
1) To to Lustria
2) Help magic frogs exterminate rat bases.
3) Use Slann Favour to raise a new mountain range between Border Princes and Bad Lands.
4) Use Dwarf Favour to fortify new mountain range.
5) Conquer the now much more dependable Boarder Princes.
6) Be princess Mathilde.
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A well considered and totally reasonable plan.
Artemis1992 said:
Nagash might beat her out.

Nagashizzar has very big towers, and if you count his Black Pyramid as a tower-like object he can really style on basically everyone else.
He has written some of the most sought-after papers in the world (Particularly his big seven are hunted and killed for regularly).
And he has done some great contributions to the world, like inventing a new magic and wiping out Nehekara.

Only his library is not overly impressive, but propably still about equal to ours.
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True. I don't count the Black Pyramid, pyramids are what you get after a tower has collapsed. But the other points are true. He's got a few nasty plagiarism accusations, but even the most ardent critiques can't deny his contribution is revolutionary. Teclis still has him beat in nerdiness, but at least for now Nagash beats out Mathilde.
 
BurnNote said:
A well considered and totally reasonable plan.

True. I don't count the Black Pyramid, pyramids are what you get after a tower has collapsed. But the other points are true. He's got a few nasty plagiarism accusations, but even the most ardent critiques can't deny his contribution is revolutionary. Teclis still has him beat in nerdiness, but at least for now Nagash beats out Mathilde.
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Our pyramid is Karag Nar. I think that's bigger than Nagash's.
 
Angelform said:
New plan:
1) To to Lustria
2) Help magic frogs exterminate rat bases.
3) Use Slann Favour to raise a new mountain range between Border Princes and Bad Lands.
4) Use Dwarf Favour to fortify new mountain range.
5) Conquer the now much more dependable Boarder Princes.
6) Be princess Mathilde.
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I wouldn't mind getting Slaan favor at some point if only to learn Saurian, which is another of the first evolution languages I believe. Or we can do that just by hanging out with some lizardmen. Either way works.
Artemis1992 said:
Nagash might beat her out.

Nagashizzar has very big towers, and if you count his Black Pyramid as a tower-like object he can really style on basically everyone else.
He has written some of the most sought-after papers in the world (Particularly his big seven are hunted and killed for regularly).
And he has done some great contributions to the world, like inventing a new magic and wiping out Nehekara.

Only his library is not overly impressive, but propably still about equal to ours.

Edit: In terms of tenure he looses hard though. He lost his last steady job as high priest millenia ago and has been NEET ever since.
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See, this is why we need to go invent Theurgy and Ulgu Tongs. Two magic styles to his one, and we can match the Books with books on our own spells—I believe each one is entirely about a single necromancy spell he invented? The Pyramid though, that one's a little more complicated. We didn't technically build Karag Nar...
 
On Kragg vs Thorek:
-Go to Kragg if you need a veritable work of legend, a piece of art.
-Go to Thorek('s apprentice swarm) if you need something basic, done well, and done repeatedly.
-Go to Kragg if you're handling something of deep and mysterious power and need an idea of how to do so.
-Go to Thorek if you're doing fundamental research on the properties of something.

The issue with Bok is that while Kragg doesn't have a monopoly on studying Bok, he IS the resident Runelord and thus there would be much in the way of offended Runelord grumbling if we were to bring a rival of his in on a project on his territory. And since neither Belegar nor Mathilde particularly enjoys the idea...they'd do more urgent stuff first.

So master enchanting, learn what the College has to teach about Arcane runecraft, learn what the Runesmiths are willing to teach a respected human of their craft, build the Sevirscope and study Bok ourselves...then as with the AV, we call in the Runelords once we've reached the extent of our fundamental research.


Speaking of AV, after we had the creation of Powerstones elaborated upon, the AV Powerstone actually seems more plausible. Previous theory was that it involved compressing magic until it turns solid, but that theory didn't actually make sense because:
-Adela, as a Magic 3 Journeyman, could already create a half-condensed form of liquid powerstone.
-Mathilde, as a fully advanced Magister, notes certain specific behaviors of compressed Ulgu when learning Battlemagic.
-Adela could not possibly wrangle that, much less put it safely into her casting focus staff.
-Aethyric Vitae doesn't collapse into Dhar except under extreme compression of its dissociated form or direct Dhar contamination. The manipulations used to create powerstones do not involve compression, they may not risk inducing dissociation.

Then we had the reveal - Powerstone creation is more like doing advanced origami to a single thread of a Wind, folding it until it changes from unstructured vapor to solid matter. Thats...technically possible to do to AV, if you could avoid using a mechanism which causes the AV to dissociate. Admittedly, kneading Aethyric Vitae using runes of Valaya and Sanctuary as if it was dough until it phase changes seems a little difficult...but its something that might be worked with.
 
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BurnNote said:
Max really was a little shit. I think at the time, most blamed sneaky lying Johann, but I'm relatively sure it's just Max being snooty. There's every chance that Johann just forgot to not magister and told Max to tone down the pretentiousness. Which he would not take well from a fellow journeyman
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He also really esteems the crafter side of the Golds, and Johann is... not great at book-learnin'.

'You speak elf?' in-very-deed.
Semi-Autogyro said:
I do regret Mathilde not having the princess title so she could use the royal 'We' to sound even more smugly mysterious and inscrutable.
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Anyone in K8P: "... You're secretly a giant spider colony?"
BeepSmile said:
Reread the bit where the two Amber journeymen investigate the We again, they're not brainless jocks, they're physically active nerds!
Very active.
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Very fit. Also very friendly.

Excuse me, I need to go visit the library, which is definitely not any kind of euphemism.
 
veekie said:
the AV Powerstone actually seems more plausible.
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It's already a physical material, so it doesn't make sense to apply to it the processes designed to transform something immaterial into something you can hold in your hand. What's it even supposed to be when we're done? More Solid-er?
 
veekie said:
Then we had the reveal - Powerstone creation is more like doing advanced origami to a single thread of a Wind, folding it until it changes from unstructured vapor to solid matter. Thats...technically possible to do to AV, if you could avoid using a mechanism which causes the AV to dissociate. Admittedly, kneading Aethyric Vitae using runes of Valaya and Sanctuary as if it was dough until it phase changes seems a little difficult...but its something that might be worked with.
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Where does this reveal happen? Because I don't remember anything like that, and unless I've had a major blankout, we have yet to take the powerstone class.
 
veekie said:
The issue with Bok is that while Kragg doesn't have a monopoly on studying Bok, he IS the resident Runelord and thus there would be much in the way of offended Runelord grumbling if we were to bring a rival of his in on a project on his territory.
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he actually isn't, he is still technically a karak-a-karaz runesmith that is technically squatting ...

not that anyone is stupid enough to say that to him, let alone make a deal about it.
 
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