Your example shows that it may take significant AP if we want to go out on quests around the world. If we can't convince Belegar to make them our official tasks, we either won't go on quests (wasting the mobility potential of the dreadnought) or we drop the position as Loremaster of K8P.
Your point about the investment involved in that adventures a good one. Equally though, the example demonstrates that Belegar considers " send the wizard to solve other people's problems for them" to be a valid diplomatic maneuver. He has used it before and may well use it again.
I suspect we will start on the waystone project before a Dreadnaught could even hypothetically be completed, but it's another example of a project for Belegar that will involve travel and I'm willing to bet to that at least some of those way stones are located in unfriendly territory.
You of course refer to Mathilde's Award To Highlight Innovation, Learning, Discovery and Excellence.
The MATHILDE Prize will be a coveted status symbol for researchers the Old World over.
To try to bring this round to the real central point again.
To quote @picklepikkl "I like being an advisor to a liege in a place".
The Dreadnaught plan threatens that both directly and indirectly while just in general weakening the thematic strength of the quest, that we are not the centre of the world and that our story is all the more important for that.
Whenever the proponants of the Dreadnaught plan are asked why they want this it always seems to come back to " I want to go elsewhere and do other things".
Until one side can convert the other to their way of thinking the serface level argument will never go anywhere.
I may have been inspired by the flying dreadnought discussion. Just a little bit.
Aboard the Dreadnought Protector
*krrringgg krrringgg*
"Lord Magister, are you awake?"
"I am now. What's the situation?"
"We're coming up on the Waystone hub now, but a complication has come up."
"I'll be at the map room in five. Weber out"
"Very good Lord Magister. Control out."
<===II===>
The Control room of the Protector, and the bridge just beyond it, is bustling with activity, more than usual at least, no doubt a result of whatever situation has come up. Already waiting for you are Otrek Alriksson, Captain of the Protector, Ilthan Stareyes, commander of the Eonir contingent onboard, and your old master and now subordinate, as weird as that is to think, Regimand Speisechrank. The first salutes, the second gives an enigmatic smirk, and the last a tired smile as you approach the MMAPP display which gives the Control room its other name.
"So, what's the situation?" you ask as you study the map. At the center is a miniature recreation of the Protector in blue, while ahead and to its starboard are a trio of white stones representing the Waystone hub you're heading for.
Regimand waves his hand over the display, changing the focus of your gaze towards the opposite end of the display where an angry blob of red lay. "Beastmen warherd," he says. "Divination sent a message three hours ago warning of their coming. Captain Otrek sent gyrocopters to investigate," he continues, nodding at said Captain.
The dwarf stops scowling at the elf on the other end of the table from him, proceeding to scowl in the direction of the map instead. "Aye, I sent three 'copters from the first flight to look, and they found an army of the smelly creatures." He scowls harder. "Seems they're heading right for the Waystones."
"Something my dwarf friend has failed to mention," Ilthan says, smirk transforming into a scowl of his own, "is that the creatures were carrying a massive stone with them." His eyes, brilliant as his name suggests, flick to yours. "I believe you know what that's for."
You grimace, thinking briefly of the Altar of Kadon, safe somewhere aboard the ship. "Herdstone. They mean to defile the Waystones before we can get there."
"Exactly," says Regimand, sighing heavily. "It's a good thing we got here first. We've already sent out an advance party of Rangers and Eonir to secure the hub, but wiping out that horde, or at least a large part of it would allow us time to work."
"That's assuming they're the only horde out there," you say, then immediately regret doing so, the mood becoming even grimmer at the thought. "So, plans?" you ask, in an attempt to change the subject.
"Head straight for the Waystones with a small group, the Protector intercepts the herd?" suggests Ilthan. "With the number of guns this thing has, surely it can buy enough time?"
Otrek scoffs. "Not good if there are multiple herds involved. The Protector should be held in reserve, just in case." He turns to you. "Got any trick ready, Zhufokri?"
In lieu of answering, you turn to your former master, whose gaze becomes contemplative. "Hmmm, Ghyran no, Azyr and Ghur might be needed in case of air attack, Hysh no..." he mutters, trailing off into unintelligibility as he mentally runs down the list of superweapons and other similar objects aboard. Finally he snaps back to the present, and says, "Ulgu 1 is available," before turning to you. "I can take command. It should be able to intercept the herd, given an escort." Otrek perks up, before moving to a speaking horn nearby to start bellowing orders to the hangars. "That frees up the Protector to wait in reserve."
You, however, hesitate. Ulgu 1 was the Burning Shadows tower aboard the Protector and it had recently been given the ability to fly independently thanks to Prince Gotri and Adela's combined efforts. Still, despite being a potent superweapon and having its own defensive weapons, as well as being accompanied by a flight of gyrocopters, you were hesitant to send it into the face of the enemy away from the protective bulk of the dreadnought. Especially when it would be carrying the closest thing to... no, when it would be carrying your father into the teeth of a Beastmen warherd.
As if sensing your thoughts, Regimand gives you a smile, and nods.
You sigh, before collecting yourself. Time to Lord Magister it up. Turning to the others, and to the room at large, you give your orders."Ilthan, with me, we're going to that hub to start our work. Magister Regimand on Ulgu 1 and a flight of gyrocopters will intercept the warherd. Captain Otrek, maneuver the Protector into position between the warherd and the Waystones. Send out 'copters as scouts to watch out for other herds, but keep some as reserve just in case." You pause, letting your words sink in to everyone listening, before continuing. "That's all. Everyone move, we have a job to do!"
<===II===>
You had visited your student's Eye of Gazul before, but even that could not have prepared you for this. At the moment, you were strapped into the command throne of Ulgu 1, the Burning Shadows tower of the Protector, which allowed it to weaponize its shadow to great effect. Now though, the tower was going to leave that dreadnought behind and fly in to stop a warherd in its tracks, alone but for a coterie of gyrocopters and bombers. Not exactly the safest of tasks, but not the most dangerous either, assuming all went well of course, which was where the problem lay. Even taking off was a danger, which is why it was with more trepidation than confidence that you spoke to the crew of the tower. "All hands, begin preparations for take off."
"Aye sir, begin preparations for take off!" At your left, your second, a Perpetual of the Grey College, repeated your orders to the rest of the crew through speaking horns.
As the crew ran through their assigned tasks, you watched a MMAPP display of the Protector in front of you as things proceeded. The teleportation tower fired off a confirmation that the ground team had left and arrived at their destination safely, while one of the hangar doors in the dreadnought's side emitted the aerial force that would be your escort.
Finally, your second turned to you. "All preparations complete, Magister."
You nodded. "Begin take off!"
You gripped the arms of your seat as the tower shook, first from the release of the clamps which attached it to the rest of the dreadnought, then from the slow ascent from its resting place. You watched the MMAPP as the tiny version of the tower rose above its other sibling towers, now connected only by a single tether to the ship.
When it reached a certain height, the rising stopped, then, once you gave the command, the tower began to move sideways, away from the ship. Once clear of the ship came the moment of truth: the detaching of the tether which connected the tower to the rest of the ship physically and magically. With it removed, flying or falling would be dependent on the tower's own power; it would no longer benefit from the enchantments which helped keep the dreadnought aloft. At your signal, the crew braced themselves as the tether was detached.
"Tether detached!"
A sinking feeling as the tower fell a short distance, before its engines and enchantments took over for those of the ship. A host of released breaths permeated the bridge as the crew began breathing again, yourself included. Now that that part was over though, it was time to get to work. "Signal the gyrocopters to move into escort position. Set a course for the warherd," you ordered, to a chorus of ayes.
As you observed the gyrocopters buzzing into orbit around the tower, first on the MMAPP, then in reality as armored panels opened to reveal rune-reinforced windows all around the bridge, you allowed yourself a moment to contemplate the series of events that led to you sitting on the throne of a flying superweapon, surrounded by a force of dwarf flying machines.
One thing is certain, you were certainly glad you had taken on Mathilde as an apprentice.
To preface, I think the dreadnought things is pretty cool, but I'm not as attached to it as some are. That being said, I wrote this partially because it just came in to my head and the scene was pretty awesome, and partially to keep the creative juices flowing as I work on the serious omake I mentioned in my previous one.
Another point to consider RE: the dreadnought: It'll probably take most of our lifetime for it to be completed, even if all we want is a normal, run-of-the-mill non-flying dreadnought. if we want one that flies, we'll either have to convince a bunch of stubborn dwarven craftsfolk (albiet with Belegar's help) to either use manling magic to make something fly, or to create runic flight technology from first principles. Either of these options entails a shitload of diplomatic work and a lengthy design and prototyping period before construction even begins.
You see thats a really good omake. It does not feel like warhammer or divided loyalties. It feels like a totally different alternate future warhammer quest about being a ship captain.
Yeee, it's not that "Star Trek but magic and we're exploring the Warhammer Fantasy world" doesn't sound like fun, but rather that it seems like it'll take literal in-game decades of work to set up and I'd rather do other things in this quest?
Alright, if we're doing puns, then maybe the boon and great deeds should be combined to research and create a vast web of teleportation sites across the Old World, linking the kingdoms of men and dwarves together. A great work of order to pave the way to the future, an ambition fit for an emperor.
Alright if we're doing puns, then maybe the boon and great deeds should be combined to research and create a vast web of teleportation sites across the Old World, linking the kingdoms of men and dwarves together. An great work of order to pave the way to the future, an ambition fit for an emperor.
You see thats a really good omake. It does not feel like warhammer or divided loyalties. It feels like a totally different alternate future warhammer quest about being a ship captain.
Or right before The Cataclysm destroys the Waystone network and we have to hang around and wait for the spiky-haired JRPG protagonist to reach the point they meet the veteran airship commander and the game opens up. Only question is who has the bigger sword.
Oh yeah. It turns out, we were the Old Ones all along! 40K when?
Just wait until Mathilde sacrifices herself to stop the necrons and the elves promptly rebrand themselves and rewrite history so they were the protagonists all along. Truly, this quest is a monument to Boneys dedication to link the warhammer timelines across thousands of turns. Such commitment.
@BoneyM could this spell work in Divided Loyalties? It looks like it's hooking up Azyr to every friendly wizard's brain which includes the non-Celestials, which doesn't sound like it could work.
You see thats a really good omake. It does not feel like warhammer or divided loyalties. It feels like a totally different alternate future warhammer quest about being a ship captain.
Thank you? I assume that latter part was a complement and not a complaint, though I must assume some responsibility for a difference in tone from the parent quest.
Or right before The Cataclysm destroys the Waystone network and we have to hang around and wait for the spiky-haired JRPG protagonist to reach the point they meet the veteran airship commander and the game opens up. Only question is who has the bigger sword.
Unless it's Ace Combat with airships where the protagonist is some hotshot Nulner engineer who built their own airship out of scraps in some backyard, who must join up with the dwarf air force to destroy the massive Skaven superweapon by flying into the tunnels beneath it and blow it up from the inside.
(Thank you!)
Also, having caught up to the rest of the thread discussions I missed while writing, I must say I picked what may have been the worst best time to post my omake. Sorry?
Also, having caught up to the rest of the thread discussions I missed while writing, I must say I picked what may have been the worst best time to post my omake. Sorry?
Nah, it feels like a nice ending to the conversation either way. Though personally, my favorite part was the Eonir calling a dwarf his friend. It's somEthing that almost anyone in-universe would look at and be freaked out by, but also possible if they don't actually have any grudges. Having elves and dwarves call each other friend would be an awesome achievement for Mathilde.
speaking of, I can't wait to see more of the Eonir storyline. Figuring out how their Magics work and potentially earning a good chunk of favor would be really cool. Hell, I kinda hope we can eventually drag them into some of our bigger dreams and aspirations too. Humans and dwarves working together is one thing, but humans, dwarves, and elves? That is entirely another.
I don't like using the boon for a spaceship simply because it's not an enduring improvement to the state of the world. If anything, likely the opposite - Dwarven shipyards are presumably already at maximum production, so funding the construction of a dreadnought would at best be an economic stimulus package. We're not in a downturn and Belegar is already constrained by manpower and politics more than money, so it's not the best case, and would only distort the economy and cause a crash when the construction program finishes and the economy snaps back. It could be argued that the forces of Order need more top-end military units and they aren't currently able to produce them for reasons that don't apply to Mathilde, but I'm not sure that that's incredibly likely. Many of a spaceship's tactical functions are better accomplished by a task force of battle wizards.
The other thing about a spaceship: Remember where I said that many of its tactical functions could be better accomplished by a pile of battle wizards? The most effective tools and weapons we could mount on our spaceship are all magic. Chain Lightning for air defense, Amber Spear for hard targets, Purple Sun for AoE, Mathilde herself for counterspelling, etc. And we don't need a dreadnought just to cart around some magic items. We'd need a tower to obliterate a whole waaagh instantly, sure, but we don't need to be able to obliterate waaaaaghs instantly. We need enough mobility to kite anything ground-bound and a decently-sized all-rounder weapon that doesn't run out of ammo. That's it. And that means all we actually need is a battle altar loaded with Chain Lightning crammed into a gyrocarriage. Other spells are special-purpose (Amber Spear, Purple Sun, etc) and would be perfectly fine as man-portable items with two or four charges (c.f. the Seed of Regrowth). The spaceship is superfluous.
Again, I think that the single most interesting and useful strategic capability the spaceship presents is as a carrier for a teleport pad, and that's more easily, cheaply, and effectively accomplished by a gyrocarriage, a receiver for a teleport tower, and a task force of armed-to-the-teeth dwarves and battle wizards. If the endpoint of the teleport tower absolutely must be another tower... just glue a flight tower to it and it's still easier, cheaper, and more effective than a spaceship.
Also, having caught up to the rest of the thread discussions I missed while writing, I must say I picked what may have been the worst best time to post my omake. Sorry?
I have to admit, I'm quite jealous you can get the inspiration and then pump out something of that quality that quickly. I'm not a fan of the dreadnought boon, but that was nicely done! (As a suggestion, maybe you should compete with @Glau in speculative future-boon omake-chains )
Nah, it feels like a nice ending to the conversation either way. Though personally, my favorite part was the Eonir calling a dwarf his friend. It's somEthing that almost anyone in-universe would look at and be freaked out by, but also possible if they don't actually have any grudges. Having elves and dwarves call each other friend would be an awesome achievement for Mathilde.
Thanks for that, and I guess you're right, it does make a nice conversation ender. About the friend line, I envisioned it as being more sarcastic sounding, since I don't think centuries of enmity won't go away overnight, so there would still be some tension present, as evidenced by Otrek donning a scowl in Ilthan's presence.
speaking of, I can't wait to see more of the Eonir storyline. Figuring out how their Magics work and potentially earning a good chunk of favor would be really cool. Hell, I kinda hope we can eventually drag them into some of our bigger dreams and aspirations too. Humans and dwarves working together is one thing, but humans, dwarves, and elves? That is entirely another.
Same here, and not just because it's tied to Waystones. I do hope the search for grudges doesn't discover anything too insurmountable, since that would put a huge damper on any cooperation thing.
I have to admit, I'm quite jealous you can get the inspiration and then pump out something of that quality that quickly. I'm not a fan of the dreadnought boon, but that was nicely done! (As a suggestion, maybe you should compete with @Glau in speculative future-boon omake-chains )
It's a bit of a double-edged sword. Yeah I can pump things out when inspiration strikes (though there with some hefty limits) but attempting to work on something long term, when the inspiration has faded, is a bit of an issue and something I'm struggling with. As for your suggestion, I can certainly try, though any future installments would probably go back to how things got here first. Any such parts will come later though, since as I previously mentioned I'm already working on something, which is set in the past and not the future. To give a little sneak peek, and also to motivate myself into actually sitting down and getting to it, have a little look:
As a pupil of the Grey College and apprentice to its foremost magister—at least you think so—it would be difficult for you to say that skipping along the halls like a happy-go-lucky schoolgirl is appropriate behavior, especially when you weren't one of those. Some exceptions can be made, however, for special occasions. After all, it wasn't everyday you get told that you're going on your Journey.
For something like this, you believe a celebration with family and friends is in order. Since the closest thing you have to the former is your master though, you'll have to settle for your friends.
Thanks for that, and I guess you're right, it does make a nice conversation ender. About the friend line, I envisioned it as being more sarcastic sounding, since I don't think centuries of enmity won't go away overnight, so there would still be some tension present, as evidenced by Otrek donning a scowl in Ilthan's presence.
Definitely, but it's a nice step in the right direction at least. I definitely got a Legolas and Gimli vibe off them. Which would make us Gandalf, of course.
I feel like building a Dreadnought isn't as easy as people are assuming? They're talking about taking it on the elfcation, but it's quest canon that they're 'once in a generation' projects, and they're built by Dwarves who prefer to take things slow anyway.
Maybe if they start laying the keel now, it'll be done by the time Mathilde turns 50.
I feel like building a Dreadnought isn't as easy as people are assuming? They're talking about taking it on the elfcation, but it's quest canon that they're 'once in a generation' projects, and they're built by Dwarves who prefer to take things slow anyway.
Maybe if they start laying the keel now, it'll be done by the time Mathilde turns 50.
In the hypothetical scenario we ask for a dreadnought, what they'll do is modify one of the ones they've already built and give it to us.
Dwarves don't prefer taking things slow. What they prefer is getting things right. Only a manling with a typically manling lack of skill and worth ethic would need to slow his work to minimise his creation's shoddiness. Pay a dwarf for work and he'll get it done in a timely manner in high quality fashion.
But why would Thorek be willing to use some random Umgi tool? The AV worked since it was the end to its own means, but without something like Bok a Seviroscope would be pretty useless.
Presumably, unless the Boon is very shoddily worded, we'd start with a pre-existing Dreadnought as the chassis, which would be modified to our specification over time, assuming our Boon also covers the Eight Peaks sponsoring upgrades to it (if it doesn't that's an entirely different issue). To make it fly is probably one modification that might not happen as fast as people think. To add things like Teleportation Towers, or to enchant it to be stealthed , or to add a Purple Sun of Xerus nuke to it, is probably yet another leap and so on. My suspicion is that Mathilde would be able to commission a certain number of modifications per turn - quite possibly a favor/GC budget of sorts. In other words, it might likely work very similar to our Tower building system, only covered by the Eight Peaks.
Again, the Great Library probably would work in a similar way, with options like adding a printing press, inviting scribes, inviting priests of Verena, making especially secure lore for forbidden knowledge, improving an acquisitions department, creating quarters for visiting scholars, creating secure vaults for Engineers or Runesmiths to store lore within, and so on.
I'm of course speculating here, but I don't think the mechanics for the boons would necessarily be very different from pre-existing mechanics like the Tower. But I think in the interest of fairness, since the Great Library is the type of boon that progressively develops over time by it's very fundamental interest (the process of knowledge collection and preservation never stops!), so to is the Dreadnought.
