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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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agumentic said:
I am sorry, didn't the guy raised his legions of death and waged two wars on his homeland on a pretty weak basis, and believed he was still waging the first one during the second?
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Hateing Bretonnia is the only sane moral reaction to their social system and as a vampire you can make a good argument that he was still fighting the first war. Unless you mean something like complete disconnect from reality then he seems sane to me.
chocolote12 said:
I guess we just have different standards for insanity? Because all of those people were around the bend.
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How? Genuien question. None of the above display anything resembling a parapsychology. Being a conquering warlord or a crime boss does not make you insane.
 
Lupercal said:
Hateing Bretonnia is the only sane moral reaction to their social system and as a vampire you can make a good argument that he was still fighting the first war. Unless you mean something like complete disconnect from reality then he seems sane to me.
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I find it baffling that people are opposed to Bretonnians oppressing the lower classes (keeping in mind that we haven't really seen Boney's take on them and they vary wildly with interpretation), but then they turn around and defend people who quite literally eat their subjects.
 
Lupercal said:
Hateing Bretonnia is the only sane moral reaction to their social system and as a vampire you can make a good argument that he was still fighting the first war. Unless you mean something like complete disconnect from reality then he seems sane to me.
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Right. Well, first, he didn't exactly rise up in moral opposition to Bretonnia's social system - that changed edition from edition anyway - he started killing people and raising them as undead because he thought that his brother the King and the Grail Knight (Paragon of knightly virtue, for a moment) was behind the assassination attempt on him. That already does not strike me as a sane action. Second, according to Lexicanum article, he was certainly completely disconnected from the reality during the second war, because he didn't even recognize that any time passed since the first and thought he was still fighting his enemies from then and before.
 
kinglugia said:
But it still labels you as 'evil'.
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Yes. And? I'm not disputing that (right now at least) I'm disputing @chocolote12 and @kinglugia who said "they are more or less insane" and that they were "totaly crazy" in reference to all vampires.
SurpriseMe said:
I find it baffling that people are opposed to Bretonnians oppressing the lower classes (keeping in mind that we haven't really seen Boney's take on them and they vary wildly with interpretation), but then they turn around and defend people who quite literally eat their subjects.
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I have never argued that vampires should rule over humans. Only that (previously) they are not all automatically evil and (right now) that they are not all automatically crazy.
agumentic said:
Right. Well, first, he didn't exactly rise up in moral opposition to Bretonnia's social system - that changed edition from edition anyway - he started killing people and raising them as undead because he thought that his brother the King and the Grail Knight (Paragon of knightly virtue, for a moment) was behind the assassination attempt on him. That already does not strike me as a sane action. Second, according to Lexicanum article, he was certainly completely disconnected from the reality during the second war, because he didn't even recognize that any time passed since the first and thought he was still fighting his enemies from then and before.
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Your second point I was unaware of and I would agree demonstrates evidence of insanity. The first one really doesn't though, ill thought out, rash or stupid maybe, but not insane.
 
Lupercal said:
In that case sane vampires include; Mannfred, Vlad, Isabella, Neferata, Aborash, Whalach Harkon, Luther Harkon pre-lizard trinckets, Gashnag the Back Prince, every Lahmian and Von Carstein secondery vampire in Ulrika's book series, the Silver Prince of Marinburg and the Red Duke all just of the top of my head.

Explicitly mad vampires of the top of my head: Konrad, who was mad before he was transformed; Urshoran, after his country was destroyed and other traumas; Wor'soran, Melkior and Zachrias the Everliving, who are all Necrachs.

Apologies for any misspellings.
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It is a fairly common thing among Strigoi (with exceptions- Gashnag is sane, for example) to be completely divorced from reality and think that they're noble kings leading grand courts, when the only thing around them are ghouls.

Basically a less-pervasive version of what the Flesheater Courts have in AoS.
 
JaceAoT said:
I don't necessarily feel he wants to retire, I've felt it's more something of a coverstory in some way.
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Probably. His actions don't match somebody who's retiring because he feels he's worked enough, and they do kind of fit somebody either reactivating a cover identity or is otherwise on mission.
NSMS said:
Vampires often develop inhuman views or mindsets, but that doesn't necessarily make them insane- just different (and frequently evil). That said, I get the impression that insanity is more common among them than among regular humans. They certainly have a far greater proportion of megalomaniacs, at least.
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Thats most likely because of inverted selection forces than any intrinsic qualities:
-Vampires who self identify as moral humans face significant obstacles in survival, they are less able to defend themselves effectively when the leading religions declare them anathema, and less able to feed.
-Vampires who are ambitious, murderous and ruthless have a significantly easier time making use of their built in capabilities to establish themselves.
-Vampires suffer few personal consequences from wielding Dhar, and wielding Dhar gives them a lot of advantages without the price.

Its just much much easier to keep Food and Friend in completely different boxes.
 
storryeater said:
Huh, I never have actually heard of that WoD species, sounds interesting.
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its a vampire the requiem splat.

its want happens when they mush together the toreador's social and artistic nature with the brujahs temper tantrums and possessiveness.

played well, they are terrifying.

played badly and they are the definition of ' I roll to seduce x'
 
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storryeater said:
Huh, I never have actually heard of that WoD species, sounds interesting.
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Daeva are one of the five Vampire Clans in nWoD, alongside Gangrel, Mekhet, Nosferatu, and Ventrue. Daeva are Lahmians that are no longer spymasters, Gangrel are Blood Dragons that embrace their monstrosity rather than confronting it, Mekhet are Necrachs that are also spymasters, Nosferatu are Strigoi that know full well how far they've fallen, and Ventrue are Von Carsteins.
 
Lupercal said:
Hateing Bretonnia is the only sane moral reaction to their social system and as a vampire you can make a good argument that he was still fighting the first war. Unless you mean something like complete disconnect from reality then he seems sane to me.
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Depends on edition a lot, really.

I'd certainly rather stick around 5th edition Bretonnia than the Empire.
 
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Lupercal said:
Even then it was a feudal shithole, just with prettier paint and the lie that you might be able to social climb your way to the top. I do agree that the Empire is not much better though.
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I can't think of many feudal shitholes that are fundamentally built on the idea that people should choose who leads them; if, admittedly, through the odd mechanism of forcing would be knights to fulfill a quest chosen by the inhabitants of said fief.
 
OOC but I always got the impression, Brettonia was that weird leftover from Games Workshop's Glam-rock phase.

The campy over-the-top caricature of Feudalism is so at odds with the rest of the Old World's setting, it's either a reason to absolutely hate Brettonia or love it.
 
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