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Why would we want to cash in the Boon now? We do not have concrete plans, and Karak lacks funds, (free) expertise, infrastructure and plain time to fullfill anything worth spending a Boon on.

Anything which can be afforded right now cannot possibly be worth a Transcendent Boon.
It's less why cash now, and more what to cash it for.
The boon is so big that Karak is never going to have the money for it, unless we decide to limit the boon ourselves.
I'd prefer to just make a decision on what the boon is, wether we use it immediately or not, instead of leave it as a vague "get out of jail free card" that is too precious to use, or will make people over confident in their actions.
 
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It's less why cahs now, and what to cash it for.
The boon is so big that Karak is never going to have the money for it, unless we decide to limit the boon ourselves.
I'd prefer to just make a decision on what the boon is, wether we use it immediately or not, instead of leave it as a vague "get out of jail free card" that is too precious to use, or will make people over confident in their actions.

I say give Karak 3-4 years.

Recall the Engineering Throng of KaK? I think that the time of their departure should be, very roughly speaking, a decent point where K8P can be considered sort of...functional. Sort of rebuilt, no longer on Red Alert, systems no longer all critical due to everything being broken down, robbed and infested by remaining greenskin spores or something.
 
Do we actually need a Grand Library to bounty hunt books?

What stops us from informing caravaneers via EIC that we would pay handsomely for certain books?

Their weight in gold and silver, even?

Or what stops us to outfit and/or fund a caravan of our own (EIC) and send it to Cathay for the express purpose of purchasing books?

We shouldn't need a Grand Library for that to be feasible.
 
Do we actually need a Grand Library to bounty hunt books?

What stops us from informing caravaneers via EIC that we would pay handsomely for certain books?

Their weight in gold and silver, even?

Or what stops us to outfit and/or fund a caravan of our own (EIC) and send it to Cathay for the same purpose?

We shouldn't need a Grand Library for that to be feasible.

We spend a lot of money on books. Money and favours at times.

Library would both cut down expenses and, well....
In my personal opinion, having so many books in perusal of only one person and their close circle of acquitances is a bit of a waste. Giving access to more people (with safeties included, naturally) would be nice. Would likely give us some respect from anyone who uses it too, and reputation is worth more than gold at this point.
 
I say give Karak 3-4 years.

Recall the Engineering Throng of KaK? I think that the time of their departure should be, very roughly speaking, a decent point where K8P can be considered sort of...functional. Sort of rebuilt, no longer on Red Alert, systems no longer all critical due to everything being broken down, robbed and infested by remaining greenskin spores or something.
And what would people be wanting then?
Like i'm not opposed to waiting, i just don't want to uncertainty, make a decision, tell it to Belegar, provide a timetable on when to start and on what budget.
And we can bring in even more workers with just gold, Thorgrim has sent a throng but that does not mean other Karaks don't have people to hire.
 
Because we ourselves are about to drain our entire stock of GC in the coming turns, and we need the GC for Dragonbone and further penthouse and tower expansion.

Thank you for reminding me.

Do we actually need further penthouse and tower expansions?

Because we had a lot of gold, and it was obtained via free actions, we defaulted to auto-buying those expansions every turn, guided by sentiments such as "well, why not?", "better to have it than not" and "just in case".

Not having infinite money, and having to pick and choose what we spend it on, is a feature not a bug imho.
 
So yes, what are actually the bottlenecks regarding the Great Library in your opinion? Why would these bottlenecks be better off resolved by holding off this boon?


Action costs in hypothetical "Belegar CK2 Quest". Considering it is Transcendent Boon, Belegar cannot refuse once we state a Boon, unless we explicitly ask him to postpone execution until feasible. At which point, might as well postpone it.



Diplomatic actions needed to gather the cool tomes are all busy figuring out new dwarf balance of power, and trying to gain some benefit from Imperial attention to the development. Oh, also the Dragon, not sure what's his status gonna be.
Martial actions...well, all busy, but they are not really needed for Library, so w/e.
Stewardship actions are constrained by commerce set-up and rebuilding pretty much all but, like, three Peaks.
- As a subset of this, engineers are 200% busy rebuilding Gate, fortifying Wyvern Caves and doing myriad other rebuilding things
Intrigue actions...well, we do not have those, and those, again, are likely all busy figuring out where what Ork tribe is or w/e.
Learning-wise, Mathilde is busy with other projects (this won't change, but still, we should carve out a bit of time for our part in Epic Project).
Gunnars is busy resanctifying stuff.
Kragg is busy opening vaults and grumbling at disrepair of everything.


In summary, actions - the most precious resource of Belegar's quest to rebuild K8P - are extremely constrained.


And what would people be wanting then?
Like i'm not opposed to waiting, i just don't want to uncertainty, make a decision, tell it to Belegar, provide a timetable on when to start and on what budget.
And we can bring in even more workers with just gold, Thorgrim has sent a throng but that does not mean other Karaks don't have people to hire.

If they will be wanting something else, it's a good thing we'll have waited until they thought up this another possibility, no?

Re: buy more workers: we were at worker and soldier shortage every day of Reconquest, far as I recall. All those heaps of gold...helped, but did not solve the issue.
Now, at peace (relative one) people will indeed float here more, sure. But there are now 8 peaks to deal with, not one, so amount of work is massively increased, short-term.

Now, once initial 3000 years of backlog of disrepair and looting are dealt with, Karak is indeed going to utilize manpower*, relative peace and space. But until that moment, state of....being permanent battle-/looting ground of Skaven and Greenskins, plus broken gates and proximity of Badlands, and other issues, will be a massive timesink.


* mind, manpower is still going to be an issue - we are likely going to all fit in comfortably in 1-2 Peaks out of 8. But once gates are fixed, Skaven tunnels are dealt with and other fires are put out, what people are there can be used for something less urgent.
 
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We spend a lot of money on books. Money and favours at times.

Library would both cut down expenses and, well....
In my personal opinion, having so many books in perusal of only one person and their close circle of acquitances is a bit of a waste. Giving access to more people (with safeties included, naturally) would be nice. Would likely give us some respect from anyone who uses it too, and reputation is worth more than gold at this point.
Anyone in Karag Nar is already free to peruse our non-restricted section provided they have the courage to ask Mathilde. I presume this is true for any dwarves in K8P as well.

On the favors front, the favors will still be getting paid and the actions will still be spent. It'll just be Belegar whose going to be paying the cost.
 
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Anyone in Karag Nar is already free to peruse our non-restricted section provided they have the courage to ask Mathilde. I presume this is true for any dwarves in K8P as well.

On the favors front, the favors will still be getting paid and the actions will still be spent. It'll just be Belegar whose going to be paying the cost.


Well, bolded's a bit of an issue. :V
Also, who in KN/K8P even knows she has a big library? Her book dealer, her friends, that's it.
 
Any potential writings are effectively inaccessible. For obvious reasons, Skaven intelligence and research is completely compartmentalized.

Huh, I'd think a skaven war veteran espionagemage would be ble to access Skaven writing on the basis of her just wanting to. Or do we need to be a Lady Magister in order to pull rank and do that?
 
There's a difference between some mecenat opening a private book collection to people (who ask for access personally, with all that implies) and Library of Alexandria.
Mecenat? :thonk:

We are not some anything, we are the Loremaster of Karak Eight Peaks and a lot of our new collection is bought using the Karak's money. You want people to be able to access your book collection? Spread awareness of it more or try to be more friendly.
 
like the grand library idea is absolutely achievable right this second. The Karak has the money and material wealth and the labour to achieve its also something that can be slow burned by design. There's basically no reason not to do it now. Belegars gold supply is almost certainly in the equivalent of millions of GC if he was worried that taking a freehand with it for spending could hyper inflate the empires economy as that's what it would take and no the comparison to cannon foundrys production already being spoken for isn't equivalent in any way.

but at this point we're beating a dead horse, if you aren't going to accept that K8P is rich enough to buy foreign supply of books to stock the library then basically nothing will convince you it's ready given that K8P has more money than it can spend.
 
Mecenat? :thonk:

We are not some anything, we are the Loremaster of Karak Eight Peaks and a lot of our new collection is bought using the Karak's money. You want people to be able to access your book collection? Spread awareness of it more or try to be more friendly.

Still won't make it a peer of an explicit great library, even assuming we bother to do any of that friendly stuff.
 
like the grand library idea is absolutely achievable right this second. The Karak has the money and material wealth and the labour to achieve its also something that can be slow burned by design. There's basically no reason not to do it now. Belegars gold supply is almost certainly in the equivalent of millions of GC if he was worried that taking a freehand with it for spending could hyper inflate the empires economy as that's what it would take and no the comparison to cannon foundrys production already being spoken for isn't equivalent in any way.

but at this point we're beating a dead horse, if you aren't going to accept that K8P is rich enough to buy foreign supply of books to stock the library then basically nothing will convince you it's ready given that K8P has more money than it can spend.

You are extremely optimistic regarding labour and actions cost (for Karak) of setting this thing up.
It's a megaproject, not something that can be done during rebuilding after 3000 years of disrepair.

And if it's a megaproject which can be done during rebuilding like this, it wasn't much of one and we wasted a boon. :V
 
like the grand library idea is absolutely achievable right this second. The Karak has the money and material wealth and the labour to achieve its also something that can be slow burned by design. There's basically no reason not to do it now. Belegars gold supply is almost certainly in the equivalent of millions of GC if he was worried that taking a freehand with it for spending could hyper inflate the empires economy as that's what it would take and no the comparison to cannon foundrys production already being spoken for isn't equivalent in any way.

but at this point we're beating a dead horse, if you aren't going to accept that K8P is rich enough to buy foreign supply of books to stock the library then basically nothing will convince you it's ready given that K8P has more money than it can spend.
Agreed, if people don't want a library, that's fine, but arguing that there is no money/resources seems more like an attempt to oppose the library plan, without actually opposing it because nobody has a better popular idea and people are hoping for something, anything, to come up if they delay.
I don't agree with idea of keeping the boon for emergencies, but i can understand it atleast.
 
Agreed, if people don't want a library, that's fine, but arguing that there is no money/resources seems more like an attempt to oppose the library plan, without actually opposing it because nobody has a better popular idea and people are hoping for something, anything, to come up if they delay.
I don't agree with idea of keeping the boon for emergencies, but i can understand it atleast.

Please refrain from accusing me of being a liar. Or if you do, have decency to quote or tag me while doing that.
 
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You are extremely optimistic regarding labour and actions cost (for Karak) of setting this thing up.
It's a megaproject, not something that can be done during rebuilding after 3000 years of disrepair.

And if it's a megaproject which can be done during rebuilding like this, it wasn't much of one and we wasted a boon. :V
It's a mega project, that can be started now and will be finished couple centuries after Mathilde is dead. Assuming it ever finishes, Grand Library at the scope of Library of Alexandria is something that is never finished.
 
Since we're alreading talking about hugely expensive options that should be taken as soon as possible, this just dropped and I think I found the unofficial anthem for us necromancers:


So consider this an additional argument for why I think asking for Belegar's official protection of our works would be a good idea...
 
Please refrain from accusing me of being a liar. Or if you do, have decency to quote or tag me while doing that.
You are not the only person arguing to delay the project. And no, i am not calling you a liar.
Possibly less than forthright maybe? Or just someone i think is wrong.
The argument to delay the project for later makes no sense to me.
K8P has more gold than it can spend, and is about to do some major building projects, if we want to build a library, this is the best time to make that decision, even if only so we can mark an area where to put a library so nobody puts anything else there.

Not to mention that the
You are extremely optimistic regarding labour and actions cost (for Karak) of setting this thing up.
It's a megaproject, not something that can be done during rebuilding after 3000 years of disrepair.

And if it's a megaproject which can be done during rebuilding like this, it wasn't much of one and we wasted a boon. :V
While maybe done in jest, does not sound like a good faith argument.
We can't finish it in a ludicrously low amount of time, so no point starting it yet.
WTF?
We are not talking about a local school library here, or even the state university library, we're talking about an analog to one of the fucking wonders of the world.
 
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Still won't make it a peer of an explicit great library, even assuming we bother to do any of that friendly stuff.
Define a "Great Library" then. What does that even mean? How do you expect Belegar to achieve it for you?

Getting one of the greatest libraries in the world has been something I've been wanting to do since we had to option to buy books. I just don't see how spending the boon on it is narratively satisfying over collecting them ourselves.
 
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