Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Redshirt Army]

I can't imagine Kragg ever making an item so shoddy that it leaks magical energy.

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Reread the part where Mathilde first receives the sword, and can sense so much magic bound up inside it that she has to suppress the urge to run away.

Kragg was thoughtful enough to make sure that the runes on the sword don't glow, but that was to improve Mathilde's mundane stealth while using it.

The Rune of the Unknown was his solution for hiding something as powerful as his personal Master Rune from magic senses.

 

[MooseHowl]

Reread the part where Mathilde first receives the sword, and can sense so much magic bound up inside it that she has to suppress the urge to run away.

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Yes?

And at last, your own blade, and you hold your breath as it is drawn from its scabbard to be presented to you.

It's a Greatsword. Well, of course it would be a greatsword, but it's a Greatsword greatsword, only scaled down slightly to match your build and exhibiting the sheen of gromril instead of the glint of steel, and lighter than you expected. Three runes are carved into it, and the only reason they do not blaze with radiance is they have been specifically made not to, and as you take in the amount of power it contains you need to remind yourself it was made by the eldest Runesmith of the Karaz Ankor to keep from carefully putting it down and then fleeing in the opposite direction - and, to your fading horror and rising delight, it's still absorbing more, and you watch traces of Ulgu get pulled from the surface of your skin to feed the power of the blade.

"Might take a while before you can thank the artisan in person," King Belegar murmurs to you over the hearty roar of the crowd, and at your quizzical glance he gives the slightest nod in the direction of the front row, where alongside a cheering King Kazador, Thorek Ironbrow's gaze is fixed on your sword and he is literally vibrating with fury.

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I'm not seeing any indication that it's particularly notable unless held in hand. Self-contained, like I said.

Algawhatever barely paid attention to it until it started teleporting and hacking off his limbs.

 

[PsyFarrow]

I'm really not seeing the concern over being critically vulnerable to Magesight. If this was such a big problem it would've been made plainly clear in our magister exam, but the thing that gave us away in that stealth game wasn't being effortlessly spotted from the other party having magesight, but our Arcane Marks.

If we want to improve our stealth game getting those under control is where to look. IIRC Boney said Mathilde's been trained to avoid magesight much as she's been taught to avoid ordinary senses.

 

[Ericwinter]

I will mention that stealth is an argument against getting a ton of magic bling.

Trying to hide our Belt and Armor will be tricky already, and I suspect that we're lucky that the Seed is so inconspicuous and magically inert when inactive, but trying to also hide some Aqshy conflagration or a Hysh time distortion would be near-impossible.

Our sword, of course, is powerful enough to be basically impossible to hide from magic senses period, which is why it was so nice of Kragg to set it up so that until the moment we need it, it simply isn't there.

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That's why I'm really hoping bows can get runes. Tossing an Unknown on there would let us hide it just like our sword. That or we use Ulgu enchantments which are probably harder to sense if done right.

 

[Boney]

@BoneyM When we're in the middle of a fight and having trouble casting because the spell is taking too long, is that just one of the narratives available for a complex spell that we fail (or barely manage) to cast, or do some spells actually take more or less time to cast in ways that are relevant for use in combat?

I ask because I'm looking at Shroud of Invisibility being only Moderately Complicated, which isn't enough to work in a Smoke and Mirrors. Teleporting and going invisible at the same time is a ridiculous combo, possibly almost worth the bump to Fiendish Complexity all by itself, so I'm trying to think of improvements to the spell that'd work well in that mix to get the most bang for the buck. If the mechanics of spellcasting are amenable, something like D&D's silent, still, or quicken spell metamagics would be ideal, but it seems like magic in WHFB already has the first two of those and the last is disallowed because time-to-cast is the only cost left and quicken would be straight up cheating.

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Casting while actively fighting is possible but is dangerous because of split attention and the possibility of sudden interruption, and as such will always take a diceroll. Mathilde will almost always cast spells before or between fights because this is one of the dangers that was drilled into her as an Apprentice.

Metamagics aren't formalized in Warhammer. A spell is easier if you accompany it with the words and the gestures, but these are mnemonics rather than actual requirements, and someone with sufficient skill can cast them without it. Speed also varies based on skill, but there's hard limits on how fast you can get it and it will never be all the way down to near-instant.

 

[Awetduck]

Not just the Eshin Assassin. Remember, our Magister examiner went invisible at the start of the combat test and we weren't able to just instantly spot him, bam, ezpz. The trick to hide from magesight must be known to the Grey College as well.

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The second begins, predictably enough, with your opponent vanishing from sight; you check your senses, determine there's no foreign influence on your mind, and watch the Winds carefully, for the movements of him disturbing them or the drawing in of him casting a spell.

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I was literally looking this up for this reason.

 

[Vebyast]

Casting while actively fighting is possible but is dangerous because of split attention and the possibility of sudden interruption, and as such will always take a diceroll. Mathilde will almost always cast spells before or between fights because this is one of the dangers that was drilled into her as an Apprentice.

Metamagics aren't formalized in Warhammer. A spell is easier if you accompany it with the words and the gestures, but these are mnemonics rather than actual requirements, and someone with sufficient skill can cast them without it. Speed also varies based on skill, but there's hard limits on how fast you can get it and it will never be all the way down to near-instant.

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That's about what it sounded like from the way the quest has been written.

Are enchanted items faster or easier to activate? It feels like it, but I don't actually recall Matilde activating any items mid-combat. If that's the case, what spell would give us the most bang for our buck? Dazzling Brightness would be moderately scary if it didn't cause any issues with our ulgu; making people go back and forth between "dazzling brightness" and "find the shadowmancer" would be pretty hilarious, and it'd be an interesting way to provide very precisely-placed shadows in odd situations. Alternatively, an item of Tree-Dweller's Step would let us go around on ceilings, which'd be a hilarious way to augment our already-impressive stealth skills. Or maybe a tiny splash of Azyr, pick up an item that lets us throw out one of the Portents of Amul when we're about to go in for a gank?

Then again, those are all really combat enhancements, and if we get into a fight we've already lost - combat can go really bad really fast. The best-looking proposal so far over all has been "get the arcane marks under control".

 

[TimEd]

private spots holding hands and murmuring, moonlight and falling must glimmering in the air.

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mist



Well. I wonder if Panoramia ever made use of the Eye of Gazul in her gardening?

 

[Omegahugger]

Starts a Dwarven Civil War?

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Hey, we didn't start that one!

... Well, I suppose if we really wanted to I know a surefire way to start a dwarven civil war. I am just not sure why we would do that, there are easier ways to gather bodies for necromancy after all.

 

[Zaratustra]

I will mention that stealth is an argument against getting a ton of magic bling.

Trying to hide our Belt and Armor will be tricky already, and I suspect that we're lucky that the Seed is so inconspicuous and magically inert when inactive, but trying to also hide some Aqshy conflagration or a Hysh time distortion would be near-impossible.

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I fell the need to point out this argument would make some sense if you didn't try to diferentiate between equaly stealthy activate items.
I don't see any reason an item of Aqshy conflagration or Hysh speed of light would be more or less inconspicuous than the seed, since they are all short duration activated items that are inert when inactive.
If any of the bling we want to get would be a stealth problem it would be the always active ones, since they would never be inert, but all of those are Ulgu based so there is bound to be a workaround.

 

[veekie]

This one keeps coming up but Boney already clarified before: Magesight is not a "thingy glows bright" unless theres significant amounts of the Winds being drawn(like for the Battle Magic or Ancestor Runes). Its a sense like any other, and you can hide from it. Conventional cover does work against magesight, even Mathilde's extraordinarily keen magesight had trouble sensing anything of the Waagh field carried by a warboss and his personal guard through rock, and that wasn't even TRYING to hide.

Suffice to say, she's pretty good at hiding, and since she can see how the Winds react, she can also adapt her practically supernatural stealth skills to hide from perception through the Winds, or failing that, to divert and distract.

 

[JackOfAll]

How exactly good is an average elven magesight? Mathilde is NOT average in that regard.

Good recent example of magesight is Skaven sorcerrer. He was accomplished caster. He obviously had magesight. Despite that, Mathilde hid in the same room while he was preparing his betrayal, and IC didn't consider it much of a risk. It hints as to what average magesight may provide.

Now, Elves may be different. But odds are than non-mage elf will have magesight less developed than Skaven master Sorcerrer. It is elven casters that are dangerous in that regard.

Form quest-mechanic point of view we've seen three 'tiers' of magesight:
- Normal mages have Magesight without any dedicated perception trait. Even for naturally gifted elves, that would likely cover vast majority of population. Mathilde was on that level on beginning of a quest. At that time she would not be able to find intruder using magesight. As such, opponents with that level are not really dangerous. Not an issue.
- Second step is first-tier perception trait such as Windreader Mathilde gained long ago. This level of magesight may cause some problem, but is likely very much possible to handle. This is likely where good percentage of elven mages are - but likely very few outside of mages gets to that level.
- Third step is second-tier trait as Mathilde's Windsage. That is a problem - but likely not found anywhere outside of very experienced elven mages. Watchers would notice sneaking Mathilde unless she got lucky. But powerful mages gifted in magesigt are rare even for elves.
- Fourth step would be theoretical third-tier trait that Mathilde may get in future. Only very, very small portion of centuries old elves may get to this level. If she encountered someone like that, she would be out of luck. But honestly? That is to be expected for centuries old elven mage lords.

In summary, let's not judge opponents by Mathilde's talent for windreading.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

How exactly good is an average elven magesight? Mathilde is NOT average in that regard.

Good recent example of magesight is Skaven sorcerrer. He was accomplished caster. He obviously had magesight.

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I think this is a misunderstanding, not all casters have magesight, all casters have a magic sense of some sort, yes, but magesight is a particular talent, and powerful magesight like Mathy has is rare. and magesight as powerful as Mathy's is even rarer.

the Skaven sorcerer didn't 'obviously' have magesight, because not all casters get magesight.

 

[storryeater]

... You guys forget that this spells were designed by elves and had to work against opponent spellcasters, such as dark elves. If a STEALTH spell of a STEALTH wind creates a situation that results in LESS net stealth... well...

That sounds like a comedy routine, not sound worldbuilding.

More likely than not, a stealth spell obscures the wind readings too.

 

[kitsune9]

Speaking of poetry, I did write this one a while back. I meant to write more, but ran out of steam somewhere after the second stanza and gave up after the fourth. I might add more if I have the time and am in the mood, but I have no idea how long that will take.

Take a look:

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I'm going to try and give some constructive thoughts here, first off this isn't just a poem it's turning into a saga that talks about the reclamation of Karak eight peaks. Since it starts with Belegars journey the story should continue being told in that time line. I feel that you should flip the third and forth stanza's of the poem because Sylvania might have happened time wise before the expedition but it didn't matter to the campain until we appeared. You don't mention all the amazing things that beowolf did before he enters the room no you save that for when the character first appears.

Having Sylvania in the poem before he starts his quest makes it seem like the success in Sylvania was the reason for the journey. "Right now it seems like Dwarven canon fire reignited dwarven pride." Instead you could have the next stanza be his work recruiting allies and then add Sylvania and our arrival and Kragg and his arrival as the allies arrive.

 

[Quest]

I'm going to try and give some constructive thoughts here, first off this isn't just a poem it's turning into a saga that talks about the reclamation of Karak eight peaks. Since it starts with Belegars journey the story should continue being told in that time line. I feel that you should flip the third and forth stanza's of the poem because Sylvania might have happened time wise before the expedition but it didn't matter to the campain until we appeared. You don't mention all the amazing things that beowolf did before he enters the room no you save that for when the character first appears.

Having Sylvania in the poem before he starts his quest makes it seem like the success in Sylvania was the reason for the journey. "Right now it seems like Dwarven canon fire reignited dwarven pride." Instead you could have the next stanza be his work recruiting allies and then add Sylvania and our arrival and Kragg and his arrival as the allies arrive.

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Yeah, it was definitely imagined more as a saga. Personally, I include these kind of sagas under poetry but that's mostly semantics. I might play with your suggestion if I get more work done on this, but the having dwarven canonfire reignite dwarven pride was slightly intentional. Belegar was IIRC supposed to go conquering a few years down the line and the implication I took was that the successes in sylvania caused him to change his mind. That it foreshadowed Mathilde was a happy coincidence.

 

[storryeater]

Well... I was wondering lately...

@BoneyM this is just idle curiosity, so if you want to simply ignore that question completely, do so and I won't repeat it. You said that you won't hesitate to kill Mathilde and write the epilogue if the dice and our decisions decree it, and then post a different quest the very next day... would that quest be a Warhammer Fantasy quest, or a different setting? Or is that something you'll decide when the time comes?

 

[BurnNote]

On my reread I came across this:

"Can we please get back on topic," Van Hal says. "More immediately relevant than stories is that we have a dragon on our side. I never thought I'd ever encounter something I'd consider overkill, but..."

"Seems kind of a waste to only purge the Hills," you say, voicing the thought shared by all present.

"I'm leery of overambition, but such an opportunity may not come around again in any of our lifetimes. The forces of two provinces, one and a half Orders worth of Knights, and one dragon. We start the purge here and push east, and if there's been no organized resistance by the time we reach the eastern edge of the Haunted Hills..." He smiles grimly. "We march on Castle Drakenhof, and tear the dark heart from Sylvania."

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Does this mean Anton is responsible for Abelheim's death? Perhaps Asarnil as well? Let's turn to our local sane person to clarify: @Omegahugger what do you think about these new old revelations? Is this cause for more eternal vengeance?

EDIT: A bit later, we learn that @DarkLight140 is either a genius or a Celestial, and tried to prepare us for our dwarf adventures way back when:

I will reveal that the roll went well, and Mathilde has been spared the addition of Moustache Cultivation (Novice) to her character sheet.

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No! My secret plan, which I will now retroactively claim that I cunningly hid from the entire rest of the voting body for the last day with the pure intention of having Mathilde cultivate the perfect facial hair, failed!

Next time, dice... next time...

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[BurnNote]

@BoneyM Reading through the thread, I came across this post with the "I'll make a man out of you" lyrics adapted. Seems in line with some of the other threadmarked songs.

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest Fantasy - Users' Choice!

As a Journeywoman, Grey Wizard Mathilde Weber is dropped into the deep end of intrigue and double-dealing after a surprise assignment to the necromancer-afflicted province of Stirland. Follow her trials, travails, feats and discoveries as she makes her way in the world and does her best to...

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

 

[Boney]

Well... I was wondering lately...

@BoneyM this is just idle curiosity, so if you want to simply ignore that question completely, do so and I won't repeat it. You said that you won't hesitate to kill Mathilde and write the epilogue if the dice and our decisions decree it, and then post a different quest the very next day... would that quest be a Warhammer Fantasy quest, or a different setting? Or is that something you'll decide when the time comes?

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I've usually got an idle idea or two bouncing around that I'd promote to full-blown quest if necessary. Most but not all tend to be Warhammer Fantasy.

 

[Omegahugger]

On my reread I came across this:

Does this mean Anton is responsible for Abelheim's death? Perhaps Asarnil as well? Let's turn to our local sane person to clarify: @Omegahugger what do you think about these new old revelations? Is this cause for more eternal vengeance?

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When given the choice between blaming an elven mercenary and a cinnamon roll, I pick the elf.

I am a rabid shipper armes with an unhealthy fixation on necromancy and a willingness to stop at nothing to obtain his goals, not a monster.

 

[storryeater]

I am a rabid shipper armes with an unhealthy fixation on necromancy and a willingness to stop at nothing to obtain his goals, not a monster.

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You forgot your most heinous quality: you also hate Ranald.

Actually, that may make you worse than a monster.

(stealth edit made a long while after first posting) hugs reacts? Why? I was expecting laugh reacts or nothing, why hug reacts?

 

[Omegahugger]

You forgot your most heinous quality: you also hate Ranald.

Actually, that may make you worse than a monster.

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If I am, then I am a monster of Ranald's own making!

... Okay, I'll admit it. Sigmar and the Countess provided him with invaluable help. It was a joint project.

 

[fictionfan]

Do the Dwarfs have universities of their own? Do they publish papers? I imagine that Dwarf peer review would be incredibly grueling. Seems like their thoroughness would be excellent for the scientific method.

 

[Ericwinter]

So a funny thought occured to me recently. Remember all those Negaverses that have popped up over the course of this quest, and how they would sometimes be this big project of several quests interconnected with each other? I wonder how many of those nega-quests we just obliterated with the recent battle, and how their playerbases reacted. Or better yet, how the different GMs reacted. I can just imagine everybody glaring at the Skryre GM over the internet as he tries to defend himself and claim it was his player's faults or Eshin for attacking, while the original BoneyM is just siitting in the corner giggling. Because, you know, they only did what they did after we made a mess of their workshops.