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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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At some point I'd like to go and visit Rosiwita (Julia), our little helper when we were spymistress. Just to check up and see if something needs finding and/or stabbing.

Edit, sorry about that just went through the character sheets again and had her name on the brain.
 
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spawnofmetroid said:
Just to check up and see if something needs finding and/or stabbing.
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I mean... Julia is nice enough, and I've no real objections to checking in- but honestly she couldn't afford us now.

We're a higher caliber of hitperson than when she knew us, penny-ante burghers and barons shirking taxes is somewhat beneath what's worthy of our time, unless they're also a Vampire or Nekoromancer or something.
 
@BoneyM When we're in the middle of a fight and having trouble casting because the spell is taking too long, is that just one of the narratives available for a complex spell that we fail (or barely manage) to cast, or do some spells actually take more or less time to cast in ways that are relevant for use in combat?

I ask because I'm looking at Shroud of Invisibility being only Moderately Complicated, which isn't enough to work in a Smoke and Mirrors. Teleporting and going invisible at the same time is a ridiculous combo, possibly almost worth the bump to Fiendish Complexity all by itself, so I'm trying to think of improvements to the spell that'd work well in that mix to get the most bang for the buck. If the mechanics of spellcasting are amenable, something like D&D's silent, still, or quicken spell metamagics would be ideal, but it seems like magic in WHFB already has the first two of those and the last is disallowed because time-to-cast is the only cost left and quicken would be straight up cheating.
 
@Vebyast personally, I'd like intergrated silence, scentless, anti-magesight if we can wrangle it; and if we spend the AP m, maybe a short suppression of our smoke Arcane Mark.

That should easily bump it up to feiendishly complex imo :).

Provided BoneyM ok's it.
 
If we look at what Mathilde's needs are...

She's pretty good at finding and getting eyes on a target that's worth assassinating. Confusion-vision, a colossal library, high learning, and piles of time make sure of that. She then usually has a bit of trouble finding a shot and a lot of trouble getting out after taking that shot - escape from the Crooked Moon clan after assassinating the goblin boss, surviving that melee in the citadel after assassinating that Warboss, etc. So I'm looking at improvements that'd help with those second two parts. "Go invisible and teleport to your target" basically solves the "find a shot" part, so I think I'm mostly interested in things that'd make a getaway easier after we teleport in and stab. A second teleport would be ideal but it's not an enhancement to Shroud of Invisibility. Maybe make us invisible to gravity as well as light so we can escape along an unexpected axis? Throwing in something to horribly confuse magesight could be useful.

Then again, that's probably fighting the last war. What will Mathilde's next war look like? It's probably pretty likely that we'll end up hanging out in Nagarythe at some point, right? What are our enemies there and what wrenches will they throw into Mathilde's attempts to decapitate enemy command structures? Actual mages, more finesse-focused enemies, bunches of Chaos, better-disciplined enemy personal guards? Hmm, that last one would be troubling. So what would we do if the enemy commander we've found has bodyguards that stick very close to his side and are poised to react immediately to disturbances? An invisible teleport-strike would probably end our target no matter what they do, but we need something that'd help us escape from that kind of close protection... An Invisibility spell that summons a couple autonomous duplicates a la Mirror Image, so the bodyguards fail to counterattack us? Alternatively, what would happen to our usual tactics if our target was a high-end chaos unit?
 
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Vebyast said:
"Go invisible and teleport to your target" basically solves the "find a shot" part, so I think I'm mostly interested in things that'd make a getaway easier after we teleport in and stab. A second teleport would be ideal but it's not an enhancement to Shroud of Invisibility. Maybe make us invisible to gravity as well as light so we can escape along an unexpected axis? Throwing in something to horribly confuse magesight would also be a major win.
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So Scry and Die, basically?:lol:

Maybe she just needs better cardio, so she can outrun the pursuers du jour. Or smoke bombs and flashbangs to complete the ninja escape tactics.

I'm betting our next theater of war will be something with Nehekara. Mathildiana Jones and the Raiders of the Undead Pyramid? Trace back the origins of the Vampires and Nagash, purely for research purposes, of course.
 
I do think some time spent learning how to shoot while invisible would be well spent, along with a silencing enchantment. Up against Elves, a bullet is pretty likely to kill.
 
Abhorsen said:
I do think some time spent learning how to shoot while invisible would be well spent, along with a silencing enchantment. Up against Elves, a bullet is pretty likely to kill.
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Easily solved. It's called getting a bow. If enchanted properly, especially if runes are allowable, it would be at least as powerful, probably have a better range, and naturally silent, while also being faster and easier to use if you're fighting more than half a dozen enemies.
 
Though our paired Dwarven revolvers do both have eight shots per cylinder.

And Mathilde isn't gonna take up a weapon where even Panoramia is better than her. :V
 
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Alliterate said:
Though our paired Dwarven revolvers do both have eight shots per cylinder.

And Mathilde isn't gonna take up a weapon where even Panoramia is better than her. :V
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Fair enough on the revolvers, I was thinking we only had one for some reason. On the other hand, even a light quiver should have at least twenty arrows, and revolvers are far from the most accurate weapons. Plus, a bow would serve well for both short, mid, and long range, while still having several other advantages. Also, elves would probably respect a decent archer more than a decent gunner. Granted, I'm not really arguing as opposed to the revolvers—we already have those—but rather against any sniper rifle we might go for so Mathilde can have a long range assassination weapon. Technology simply hasn't progressed to the point where snipers can beat out the potential of an enchanted bow, even if they're easier to mass produce for large groups. We would have to practice either way, since we don't have a rifle skill yet, and I just see a bow as being much more useful.
QuietlyObserving said:
Six shots is more than enough to kill anything that moves. The two extra are for double taps.
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If you're only trying to kill one thing, yeah. A big problem is that Mathilde keeps getting stuck in large groups with no way out, so even sixteen shots can't solve that. What we really need is a long range weapon, preferably one that doesn't let people know where we are so they can hunt us down after we kill someone.
 
Vebyast said:
It's probably pretty likely that we'll end up hanging out in Nagarythe at some point, right? What are our enemies there and what wrenches will they throw into Mathilde's attempts to decapitate enemy command structures?
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Among elves, magesight is decoupled from actual spellcasting talent - every single elf can see the Winds to some degree, and exceptional Magesight among elves is about as common as having exceptional eyesight is among humans.

I recall an elven couple in one of the books, for example, where the husband was able to manipulate the Winds but had relatively poor magesight, so he relied on advice from his wife, who had no magic training at all but could see the Winds perfectly.

This is an issue for Mathilde, since a *lot* of her usual hiding kit is tuned towards hiding from "ordinary people". Cloak of Invisibility can be an outright liability when trying to hide from people who can see Ulgu, and trying to hide the burning nuclear reactor that is our sword will be near impossible while it's summoned.

I suspect our Arcane Marks might be an issue too, which is why I've been pushing to try to control them before we head out to elfland - we're literally leaking magic into our surroundings, which can't possibly be good for stealth when dealing with people who can sense magic.

Basically, we need whatever trick the Eshin Assassin used to hide from magesight.
 
Ericwinter said:
Easily solved. It's called getting a bow. If enchanted properly, especially if runes are allowable, it would be at least as powerful, probably have a better range, and naturally silent, while also being faster and easier to use if you're fighting more than half a dozen enemies.
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Bows require skill. A bow can work at short, medium, and long range because an archer can handle different trajectories which lets them fire with different draws as necessary. Unfortunately, archers can handle different trajectories because they have to be able to handle varying trajectories to shoot at all. A bow's trajectory varies with things like string tension (which varies with things like atmospheric humidity, how long the bow has been strung today, how long it's been since you replaced the string, the ambient temperature...) and how hard you're drawing (which varies with things like what you had for breakfast, how much sleep you got, how tired your fingers are, whether there's any water on your fingers...) and so on and so forth. It is damned near impossible to be accurate with a bow. We know of longbows as being an English thing because nobody else was able to build the finances, government, and culture necessary to convince a meaningful portion of the population to spend pretty much their entire lives training the skill.

We have time to be good at magic and good at swords and okay at guns, but probably not time to be good at swords and magic and bows.
Redshirt Army said:
Among elves, magesight is decoupled from actual spellcasting talent - every single elf can see the Winds to some degree, and exceptional Magesight among elves is about as common as having exceptional eyesight is among humans.

I recall an elven couple in one of the books, for example, where the husband was able to manipulate the Winds but had relatively poor magesight, so he relied on advice from his wife, who had no magic training at all but could see the Winds perfectly.

This is an issue for Mathilde, since a *lot* of her usual hiding kit is tuned towards hiding from "ordinary people". Cloak of Invisibility can be an outright liability when trying to hide from people who can see Ulgu, and trying to hide the burning nuclear reactor that is our sword will be near impossible while it's summoned.

I suspect our Arcane Marks might be an issue too, which is why I've been pushing to try to control them before we head out to elfland - we're literally leaking magic into our surroundings, which can't possibly be good for stealth when dealing with people who can sense magic.

Basically, we need whatever trick the Eshin Assassin used to hide from magesight.
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Thanks for the explanation; I was having a hard time trying to get anything useful out of the WHFB wikia. >_<

If magesight is that common, then yeah, learning to suppress that is just about necessary. I'd figured that a mode for Shroud of Invisibility that made our ulgu invisible would be outright impossible because it'd be cheating, but now that you mention it I do guess we've seen things that might have been partially disguised.

...Would Take No Heed work for making people not notice our magic?

Alternatively, if you've ever read Good Omens, how about the "they can't see us if they're blind" approach? :p
 
Redshirt Army said:
Basically, we need whatever trick the Eshin Assassin used to hide from magesight.
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Or we can go the opposite approach. Mage sight will let you know where spells are not what's hiding behind those spells. So instead of trying to be perfectly invisible we could create a flare/chaff type spell. Something that admits such a confusing pattern or amount of wind that it makes mage sight next to worthless.

Sure the enemy will know something is in the area but if we have already had our cover blown and are trying to escape the enemy will already know something is in the area.

No need to be invisible if everyone is blinded.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Basically, we need whatever trick the Eshin Assassin used to hide from magesight.
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Not just the Eshin Assassin. Remember, our Magister examiner went invisible at the start of the combat test and we weren't able to just instantly spot him, bam, ezpz. The trick to hide from magesight must be known to the Grey College as well.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Among elves, magesight is decoupled from actual spellcasting talent - every single elf can see the Winds to some degree, and exceptional Magesight among elves is about as common as having exceptional eyesight is among humans.

I recall an elven couple in one of the books, for example, where the husband was able to manipulate the Winds but had relatively poor magesight, so he relied on advice from his wife, who had no magic training at all but could see the Winds perfectly.

This is an issue for Mathilde, since a *lot* of her usual hiding kit is tuned towards hiding from "ordinary people". Cloak of Invisibility can be an outright liability when trying to hide from people who can see Ulgu, and trying to hide the burning nuclear reactor that is our sword will be near impossible while it's summoned.

I suspect our Arcane Marks might be an issue too, which is why I've been pushing to try to control them before we head out to elfland - we're literally leaking magic into our surroundings, which can't possibly be good for stealth when dealing with people who can sense magic.

Basically, we need whatever trick the Eshin Assassin used to hide from magesight.
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Eh, technically speaking, Mathilde can hide her Ulgu usage, even when actively casting. She actually mused about that when we were baiting the dragon for our talk, and how it was weird to not instinctively hide her signature. On the other hand, we can always be better at it. So, first off, we need to pick up Cathayan, just in case those books we stole already have the answer, and if the doesn't work, find more Eshin to steal from.
Vebyast said:
Bows require skill. A bow can work at short, medium, and long range because an archer can handle different trajectories which lets them fire with different draws as necessary. Unfortunately, archers can handle different trajectories because they have to be able to handle varying trajectories to shoot at all. A bow's trajectory varies with things like string tension (which varies with things like atmospheric humidity, how long the bow has been strung today, how long it's been since you replaced the string, the ambient temperature...) and how hard you're drawing (which varies with things like what you had for breakfast, how much sleep you got, how tired your fingers are, whether there's any water on your fingers...) and so on and so forth. It is damned near impossible to be accurate with a bow. We know of longbows as being an English thing because nobody else was able to build the finances, government, and culture necessary to convince a meaningful portion of the population to spend pretty much their entire lives training the skill.

We have time to be good at magic and good at swords and okay at guns, but probably not time to be good at swords and magic and bows
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Fair, though I could point out that we're already Good at most of those, and if we ever want to pick up any long range weapon like a sniper rifle, we're going to have to train regardless. I don't expect us to just pick up a bow and start shooting like a pro, but if we ever get a point where we have at least a free point of actions for several turn or get access to good teachers—as I recall, Markus taught us how to be a badass swordswoman in what, three years? Five? I honestly can't remember, actually, And at least half of that was getting into shape, which we've already managed. Besides, it's not like we're anywhere near ready to get a long range weapon regardless, since we still need to learn more enchanting and do other stuff.
picklepikkl said:
Not just the Eshin Assassin. Remember, our Magister examiner went invisible at the start of the combat test and we weren't able to just instantly spot him, bam, ezpz. The trick to hide from magesight must be known to the Grey College as well.
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I think it was suggested that the assassin couldn't find us, either—hence us literally bumping into each other—so we probably already know everything the Grey Wizards have.
 
Ericwinter said:
I think it was suggested that the assassin couldn't find us, either—hence us literally bumping into each other—so we probably already know everything the Grey Wizards have.
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Maybe just some hands-on training is in order, then, so we're not learning in a situation where a failure means we're dead. Do any of our students have noticeably good mage-sight? Alternatively, maybe "hiding from other wizards" is something we could line up a course for at the college?
Ericwinter said:
find more Eshin to steal from.
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Hah, another good plan.

Or we could abduct one and brainwash them, though that may be slightly more difficult with a mage who'd be harder to totally disarm...
 
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I will mention that stealth is an argument against getting a ton of magic bling.

Trying to hide our Belt and Armor will be tricky already, and I suspect that we're lucky that the Seed is so inconspicuous and magically inert when inactive, but trying to also hide some Aqshy conflagration or a Hysh time distortion would be near-impossible.

Our sword, of course, is powerful enough to be basically impossible to hide from magic senses period, which is why it was so nice of Kragg to set it up so that until the moment we need it, it simply isn't there.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Cloak of Invisibility can be an outright liability when trying to hide from people who can see Ulgu, and trying to hide the burning nuclear reactor that is our sword will be near impossible while it's summoned.
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Branulhune is not a nuclear reactor. Runes only give off energy when used, and the runes Kragg put on there are for being summoned in hand or hitting things. There might be a momentary magical signature when summoned or dismissed, but otherwise the sword is inert unless murdering things. It's even light-dampened. The runes on it don't glow at all.

I can't imagine Kragg ever making an item so shoddy that it leaks magical energy.
 
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