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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Glau said:
If all the employees and visitors are dwarves, what is the point of the library as a boon? Bragging rights? I'd like to use the boon to change the world, not just make a copy of the K-a-K archives.
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It would be more than just the K-a-K archives. It would be copies of the books from all over the empire, and it would be guaranteed safety and would not be destroyed whenever another Dieter comes around. Plus we addd on funding for research projects and whatnot.
 
I suppose if all else fails and no agreement can be found over the library-to-learning center ratio of the boon, there's always the Dreadnought Lab as a fallback. :V
 
chocolote12 said:
How are they going to do that if all the employees are dwarves? Just stab people they don't like when they walk out the doors?

You can't just say they're going to do something and then not elaborate on the hows. Otherwise it's the same as 'bad things are going to happen'.
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Really? Not a singly undumgi is allowed to get hired? None of the many human scholars is allowed to enter?
Why even bother with a library?
 
Glau said:
If all the employees and visitors are dwarves, what is the point of the library as a boon? Bragging rights? I'd like to use the boon to change the world, not just make a copy of the K-a-K archives.
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Valmond said:
Really? Not a singly undumgi is allowed to get hired? None of the many human scholars is allowed to enter?
Why even bother with a library?
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Why would visitors have decision making powers over the library, such that they could politic and backstab about it?

You can't just make assertions and then not elaborate on them. Where would somebody with malicious intent interfere? How? I can't argue with a claim that has no salient points.
 
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chocolote12 said:
Why would visitors have decision making powers over the library, such that they could politic and backstab about it?

You can't just make assertions and then not elaborate on them. Where would somebody with malicious intent interfere? How? I can't argue with a claim that has no salient points.
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I disagree here, your argument does sound like hiring practices and entre will be dwarf only, and that is a bit backward from the goal.

I would have mix race (species?) hiring, and be open for all order-side people. lots of fetting obviously, but there will be room for a bad apple to get in just by the nature of it.
 
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Can we please stop making up arguments based on differing interpretations of possible future events? It's the second go-round of this for this subject, and it's really tiresome.

Yes, there would probably be some politics involved with a Great Library, but much less so than with a Great University. No, we can't say how much. Yes, both would involve more politics than getting a personal Dwarfbote which Mathilde currently has negligible use for.
 
Lightwhispers said:
Can we please stop making up arguments based on differing interpretations of possible future events? It's the second go-round of this for this subject, and it's really tiresome.

Yes, there would probably be some politics involved with a Great Library, but much less so than with a Great University. No, we can't say how much. Yes, both would involve more politics than getting a personal Dwarfbote which Mathilde currently has negligible use for.
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1) I agree on all point about politic and the library

2) no, we won't, this is a debating forum and lot of people find this stuff fun.
 
Lightwhispers said:
Can we please stop making up arguments based on differing interpretations of possible future events? It's the second go-round of this for this subject, and it's really tiresome.

Yes, there would probably be some politics involved with a Great Library, but much less so than with a Great University. No, we can't say how much. Yes, both would involve more politics than getting a personal Dwarfbote which Mathilde currently has negligible use for.
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Basically this.
I want the Center of Learning option mostly because if its just a library we could already accomplish that on our own time, we're already partway there with our book-hoarding dragon habits. Doubly so when it gives Belegar a route to sidestep the traditional guild control approach if he wants, what the humans want to do with their institution is fine as long as they don't go stealing Guild secrets(and we explicitly know that learning by example and observation wouldn't count, and is the main smokescreen used for tech transfers) and dwarves can join or not on their own initiative.

But at this point the argument is less about how useful each option is, both personally and institutionally and more about both sides inventing things to sling at each other for lack of new points and its really bringing down the tone of the discussion.
 
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veekie said:
Basically this.
I want the Center of Learning option mostly because if its just a library we could already accomplish that on our own time, we're already partway there with our book-hoarding dragon habits. Doubly so when it gives Belegar a route to sidestep the traditional guild control approach if he wants, what the humans want to do with their institution is fine as long as they don't go stealing Guild secrets(and we explicitly know that learning by example and observation wouldn't count, and is the main smokescreen used for tech transfers) and dwarves can join or not on their own initiative.

But at this point the argument is less about how useful each option is, both personally and institutionally and more about both sides inventing things to sling at each other for lack of new points and its really bringing down the tone of the discussion.
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I brought it up because I thought it might be constructive to game out some scenarios about a possible option for the boon, but it did immediately sidetrack into why that option was or was not a stupid one.

So I'd like to continue, with the understanding that this is fluff, and a request for people to either 'yes, and-' this stuff or just ignore it. I don't need to know that you'll be voting against a university, I'll find that out when we vote, but in the mean time I'd like to spin out what it could be and how it could work.

So I'm not going to justify why I want this or why I think it is better or worse than other options any more. I'm just going to write as if it is going to happen, and work out what I think would be the paths and consequences.

That said:

I see four centers of learning already establishing themselves here, and can definitely see the overall structure growing out of them.

First, the Agricultural College- between the halflings and Panoramia, there is going to be a ton of knowledge and experimental results around reconstituting soil after greenskin depletion of it, and the integration of Skaven ooze into livestock production. Compiling that and passing it to the next generation is probably going to be informal without outside impetus, but it would be cool to create more halfling power centers in the political structure of K8P.

Second, the Ars Magicka journeymen finishing school. Likely to grow out of duckling club and very much the most prestigious branch at the moment due to the Loremaster title of it's leader, this is also the one most likely to go though huge swings in personnel and relevance. I'd like to think Gretel and the Golds would give it some initial stability, but without some high profile ongoing projects I think recruitment will be difficult in peacetime. Probably the most dependent on outside events and influences, likely to get SUPER political as soon as a non-empire wizard wants to join.

The Gunnery School. More of a trade college, I suspect that this is going to have the biggest group of students and facilities for a long time, as it's directly useful to a lot of people to have a source of trained artillery crews here. I suspect it is also the most vunerable to political manipulation by outsiders, as it is not really clear whose authority it is under right now. Also probably the best place to find remedial letters and numbers type courses, will probably spin off a unit to teach traders at some point given the capacity and Francesco's ambitions. Very likely to be run by someone more loyal to Nuln than K8P, how much that matters being an open question.

And finally, the engineering guild. Likely to remain nominally independent regardless of how much dwarves open up to teaching outside the master/apprentice system, but also likely to serve as sort of a grad school for the gunnery college. Still worth noting that it is likely to be the part that provides the most R&D, but creating a human chapter to allow for faster testing and iteration before it goes to the dwarves for proving would be a good thing.
 
You know all this discussion about the boon is tiring, at the end is very unlikely that we will spend it on anything anytime soon, because it is a textbook example of Too Awesome to Use...

I have a couple of f questions regarding how to spend college favour @BoneyM

IIRC if we add two extra favors to a Battle Magic Artifact ( for example a 12 favour speed of light item) it would work better... But it is possible to add even more favors to increase its quality? And if so how many favors can be added while remaining cost effective?

EDIT: I know that we can buy exotic materials for making our magic staff starting at 10 college favours but which kind of materials are available for purchase in the college and how much favor would it cost each kind of material?
 
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Fanhunter696 said:
And about the magic staff, IIRC we can spend 1 college favor to get a simple wooden one... But what kind of staff we would get of we spend 5, 10 or 20 favors?
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You're misremembering. We can get wood appropriate for making a staff for 2 college favour. For 5, metal appropriate for a staff. For 10, exotic materials.

We still need to actually make the staff ourself, and if we fail and destroy our materials, we need to buy it again.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
if we do go lab boat, it should be a Ironclad, not Dreadnought.

Dreadnought is a bit much for K8P's right now.
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More than a bit much. Of course Thorgrim does kind of owe Belegar a transcendental favor for pausing the inevitable decline and fall of dwarf civilization and showing a path forward, and a bigger one for getting that error tone out of his ears.

*Starts drawing up Plan Flying Submersible Dreadnought University*
 
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