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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Speaking of Zhufbar. I just did a(nother) re-read and around 2476, when the Stirland campaign picked up, Zhufbar was having a Skaven problem that kept them from sending more Dawi for the campaign. Was that ever expanded on?
Edit: In hindsight we can blame a lot on the Skaven.
 
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Asheram said:
Speaking of Zhufbar. I just did a(nother) re-read and around 2476, when the Stirland campaign picked up, Zhufbar was having a Skaven problem that kept them from sending more Dawi for the campaign. Was that ever expanded on?
Edit: In hindsight we can blame a lot on the Skaven.
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There's Skaven in Karak Varn, Zufbar's sister hold.
 
Mopman43 said:
There's Skaven in Karak Varn, Zufbar's sister hold.
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Possibly, but I'm referring to this.
BoneyM said:
"The Throng of Zhufbar's reinforcements aren't quite what was hoped - apparently the beastmen in the lower levels of their hold weren't as pacified as they appeared - but they have increased their artillery considerably. That's the final additions to our army - not as much as I'd hoped, but better than I'd feared. Now all that remains is to plan, and to march."
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From a little while back, but...
veekie said:
Really that particular law, like much of the Articles of Magic, seems more intended to superficially address public fears than anything else.
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BoneyM said:
A lot of them are written so they sound like they place heavy restrictions on Wizards, but by a careful reading all they really enforce is 'learn how not to explode, don't touch the Bad Magic, also don't do crime or treason'. It's an excellent piece of world building.
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Yeah. It's a pretty genius political move by Magnus.

Magic is a big, scary unknown that doesn't follow the rules of logic or what seems possible. The public fears that anyone could be a wizard in disguise, doing anything at all, and being too powerful to be stopped.

But along comes the Articles of Imperial Magic, which codifies when, where, how, and for what magic can be used for. It codifies who can and can't do magic. It codifies what wizards can and can't do. It outlines not just that they're loyal to the Empire, but an entire line of loyalties, in order of priority! It also lays out severe punishments for violations, how they fit in with the existing authority structure (including the Witch Hunters), and that they have to follow all the laws of the Empire just like any other citizen.

Suddenly, wizards become a lot less of an unknown, and you can threaten any uppity wizard with severe punishment or execution (by the authority of the Emperor himself!) if he/she is doing anything with magic that they're clearly not supposed to be doing.

And the wizards do actually take the Articles quite seriously, too, which is even better, because they actually understand the nuances of it and the real intentions behind the document. For Wizards, the Articles are not only their source of legitimacy and protection, they are also of immense cultural significance, and upholding them is practically a point of honor.
 
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Ok, thinking a bit more about the boon. I think we have the immediate shape of what I want to vote for down, and you've all seen the U-K8P stuff I wrote for 100+ years from now, but the 15-30 years in the future stuff, like the next two generations after Mathilde, that's something in thinking about more lately. How exactly does one go about growing a small community of scholars and mages into a formal, valuable, prestigious institution?

Plus that timeframe is definitely outside of the quest period, so it's fun place to speculate about.

Guessing that it'd start with whoever Mathilde passed on her position as Loremaster to- the dwarves would honor her boon in perpetuity, but they'd likely be pushing the loose collection of misfit geniuses that I'd like to think Mathilde would collect into a more formal guild of scholars. (Dwarf Loremaster after us is my expectation.)

So Guildmaster and masters mapped to chancellor and professors, rather than the actual magic college or U of Altdorf structure. A shift to teaching for income, then a push to centralize student tuition payments, facilities, and registrations would probably be the first two big cultural changes...
 
Glau said:
Ok, thinking a bit more about the boon. I think we have the immediate shape of what I want to vote for down, and you've all seen the U-K8P stuff I wrote for 100+ years from now, but the 15-30 years in the future stuff, like the next two generations after Mathilde, that's something in thinking about more lately. How exactly does one go about growing a small community of scholars and mages into a formal, valuable, prestigious institution?

Plus that timeframe is definitely outside of the quest period, so it's fun place to speculate about.

Guessing that it'd start with whoever Mathilde passed on her position as Loremaster to- the dwarves would honor her boon in perpetuity, but they'd likely be pushing the loose collection of misfit geniuses that I'd like to think Mathilde would collect into a more formal guild of scholars. (Dwarf Loremaster after us is my expectation.)

So Guildmaster and masters mapped to chancellor and professors, rather than the actual magic college or U of Altdorf structure. A shift to teaching for income, then a push to centralize student tuition payments, facilities, and registrations would probably be the first two big cultural changes...
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What would we want the U-K8P for that the U of Altdorf doesn't already do? What's the benefit?
 
Valmond said:
More stuff to add to the business card.
Magister, Loremaster, Former Spymaster, founder of the U-K8P...
Founding a university is the right kind of glory seeking, respectable, and exploitable in some circles.
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Adding more stuff to do is not something we need.

Frankly, I don't like the university idea, and I'd rather vote for just about anything else. Though honestly, I haven't seen any really great suggestions yet.
 
BurnNote said:
Adding more stuff to do is not something we need.

Frankly, I don't like the university idea, and I'd rather vote for just about anything else. Though honestly, I haven't seen any really great suggestions yet.
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Well, happily, the university is not something we need to do.
We can use the boon to have it happen with little to no active participation from us.
The whole point is to start with a grand library, then have a university to grow alongside it with us maybe using an ap here and there when we have freetime to guide it to suite our needs.
We are not planning to actually run, or even build, it ourselves.
 
Valmond said:
Well, happily, the university is not something we need to do.
We can use the boon to have it happen with little to no active participation from us.
The whole point is to start with a grand library, then have a university to grow alongside it with us maybe using an ap here and there when we have freetime to guide it to suite our needs.
We are not planning to actually run, or even build, it ourselves.
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"Use this unique boon on something you don't want because it won't take much input" isn't very convincing. I am also not even slightly convinced that thread inertia wouldn't have us spending at least an AP a turn on making sure it "turns out right."

I'm pretty sure that when the vote comes, the majority will vote to hold onto it.
 
Eh, idk about specifically University. What I want to start out with is great library, spurred on by both Mathilde's eternal hunger for books and by how envious she was of dwarven millenia of records in KaK.

Then we/thread figured out that scholars all over the world are going to come running to such a place of knowledge eventually (seeing as, unlike Altdorf, it won't get burned down by illiterate fuckwits every couple of centuries), and so it's liable to evolve into center of learning, as opposed to library, over time.

Which evolved thread sentiment into going for an Uni, I think?
 
Valmond said:
Well, happily, the university is not something we need to do.
We can use the boon to have it happen with little to no active participation from us.
The whole point is to start with a grand library, then have a university to grow alongside it with us maybe using an ap here and there when we have freetime to guide it to suite our needs.
We are not planning to actually run, or even build, it ourselves.
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Yeah, but do you realy think that's is going to happen ?
Realy consider Boney writing style and how the thread tends to react to it, whaever we spend a trancedental boon on will be big and meaningfull, because it has to to convince the majority is worthy of spending the boon and will be a suitable reapayment to the reconquest from Belegar's point of view.
So Boney will inevitable write it that way wich means actions and the people who were willing to spend the boon will want to take those and even some that weren't will want the same to at least get their moneys worth, to not talkk how unlikely it is for any kind of organization, be it a university or a grand library to not become an organization under Mathield, because again we spend a trancedental boon on it.
Wich is why right now I am mostly hoping he will just treat it like the Gread Deed.
 
I really am not happy that the Grand Library got Idea creeped into a university.

I am voting for a Library with the option to expand if we want later. Nothing more.

if someone comes later after we die to found a university, that's their thing.
 
We don't need to specify either a library or university, just a centre of learning, and then Mathilde can use it to buy books, hire translators and teachers as required, and allow the rest to accrue around it. Keeping things undefined until they organically define themselves is a lot better than rigidly foxing it to one thing regardless of future needs.
 
Okay, so I'm not really that interested in a university but it does make me wonder what centres of learning the dwarves have. Is there any hold famous for being a centre of learning?
 
Alratan said:
We don't need to specify either a library or university, just a centre of learning, and then Mathilde can use it to buy books, hire translators and teachers as required, and allow the rest to accrue around it. Keeping things undefined until they organically define themselves is a lot better than rigidly foxing it to one thing regardless of future needs.
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I feel like 'centre of learning' is a bit too vague and trying to have your cake and eat it too' for the boon.

I think a Grand Library will work fine, other people can do the other stuff if they want around the Library.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
I feel like 'centre of learning' is a bit too vague and trying to have your cake and eat it too' for the boon.

I think a Grand Library will work fine, other people can do the other stuff if they want around the Library.
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It's a transcendental boon. It's meant to be big. Centre of learning is deliberately vague as we don't know what the future brings. Mathilde isn't just a scholar, she's also a researcher, an innovator. I see this boon as a way of marking that aspect of her character on K8Ps, influencing how it develops. I don't want that influence to be backwards looking, about collecting and recovering past works, but also about learning new things.

That's what K8Ps as a whole should be, a beacon of hope for the future, not just a monument to past glories.
 
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