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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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@BoneyM

On trait possibilities, would you consider a Fog of War upgrade that expands it into applying at some level even when we are not in command? Basically making us a bit better at personally blinding scouts, discovering or causing surprises, etc—or at least doing so in a manner that better favors our side of the battle.
 
Hey everybody! I know we are all excited Boney is back, but can we not flood his notifications with pings? Most of the questions he gets are better/quicker answered by the thread first- we've got some very good posters here to vet things.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
@BoneyM Are there protocols for descendants of those absorbed into a clan to split off into the original?

Given how long it's been that might be a bit problematic, but something like going through the genealogies, finding how many dwarves can be said to have strong links back to that clan, and asking for volunteers to go reestablish it?

Or in a situation like this would Belegar effectively, put a call out saying runesmiths wanted space and cool stuff available?
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It would be a matter of starting from scratch. This many generations after the fact, those ties are only meaningful if a Clan has been keeping them meaningful. Hell, even Kragg probably has reabsorbed Eight Peaks Runesmith ancestors, but he'd also have at minimum a thousand non-Eight Peaks ancestors of the same generation too.

Reynal said:
@BoneyM

On trait possibilities, would you consider a Fog of War upgrade that expands it into applying at some level even when we are not in command? Basically making us a bit better at personally blinding scouts, discovering or causing surprises, etc—or at least doing so in a manner that better favors our side of the battle.
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Added.
 
BoneyM said:
Full disclosure: on top of travelling for the holidays (which overall is a good thing, but I don't travel well) I'm also dealing with having to find a new place to live. So update schedule might end up slipping a bit, and a bit more testiness might slip through my usual 'backspace it and reword it nicely' protocols in the coming days/weeks/months.
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That's completely understandable, and I know I'm not the only one here who would say that your upload schedule, while amazing for us readers, should definitely be cut back if that's what you need to do. You do far, far more than most QMs I've read.

I wish you the very best of luck in both your travels and in finding a new place to call home (or at least, your personal dry space)
 
Alliterate said:
Also... is Ranald in the running to get a full Temple at K8P before any Ancestor God?
Nice.
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Nah, the Hall of Oaths is a full temple for Grimnir.

The Great Library project does appeal to me the most of all the boons proposed so far - in large part because it's something that can be done as a marathon, to make sure that expenses are manageable... and also seems like it would be something Mathilde would like to have. I still would prefer to hold off on it for a bit, but that's a possible thing.

One possible thing for if Mathilde dies with the Boon unused, is to (in her will) ask Belegar to ensure that somedwarf (maybe get Gunnars or his colleagues in on it) to take guardianship of the Liber Mortis, with the description of its contents, and to judge if an undead disaster is big enough for someone to be allowed to look at it. Having it in the keeping of the Dwarves could well be a very good idea, as they can hold the knowledge within without being tempted to use it. (Because they can't, as far as the dangerous stuff goes.)
 
Exmorri said:
I wouldn't expect the High Elf to know significantly more about the spoon-eared gods, though. :tongue:
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Why not? Why wouldn't the mechanics of how mortal souls interact with the Aethyr be the same? Particularly as the high elf Loremasters are dedicated to the collection of knowledge in general.

Particularly as it's mentioned in that very section of Tome of Salvation. Particularly as that very same section of Tome of Salvation also says that the Tileans learned of the Southern/Classical Pantheon from the ruins of elven cities.
 
Could we use our boon to get kragg to write a book detailing his knowledge of runecraft? Yes he's ancient but nothing will last forever and he WILL die someday. Frame it as trying to keep the dwarves from falling further from the golden age maybe
 
So not sure if I missed it. Did we get new papers out of this? I saw we've got fresh observations on Eshin sorcery, in the same vein do we have anything on the dragon or was that a situation where we never really saw it casting? I also figure generals and sorts back in the Empire (and probably more than a few dwarves) would probably be interested in a proper report of what went down and the tactics.
I guess anything on Bok is gated behind much research, but it will be fun to co-author with Kragg... at first... until he turns out to be even more of a perfectionist than our first paper.
 
Dark as Silver said:
So not sure if I missed it. Did we get new papers out of this? I saw we've got fresh observations on Eshin sorcery, in the same vein do we have anything on the dragon or was that a situation where we never really saw it casting? I also figure generals and sorts back in the Empire (and probably more than a few dwarves) would probably be interested in a proper report of what went down and the tactics.
I guess anything on Bok is gated behind much research, but it will be fun to co-author with Kragg... at first... until he turns out to be even more of a perfectionist than our first paper.
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We'll find out when we find out I imagine.
 
Alratan said:
Why not? Why wouldn't the mechanics of how mortal souls interact with the Aethyr be the same? Particularly as the high elf Loremasters are dedicated to the collection of knowledge in general.

Particularly as it's mentioned in that very section of Tome of Salvation. Particularly as that very same section of Tome of Salvation also says that the Tileans learned of the Southern/Classical Pantheon from the ruins of elven cities.
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...could we not Alratan? You too @ninjafish & @Exmorri? We seem to have a debate about the ontological metaphysics of warhammer fantasy gods every other day and so far both sides have failed to convince each other. Could we please give it a rest until it is actually relevent to the quest?

Edit: Yes. I am aware that I have been part of the problem.
 
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Wutnhammer said:
Could we use our boon to get kragg to write a book detailing his knowledge of runecraft? Yes he's ancient but nothing will last forever and he WILL die someday. Frame it as trying to keep the dwarves from falling further from the golden age maybe
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Two main problems here:
1) It's a boon from Belegar, not Kragg.
Belegar can try to convince him, but Kragg... well, he's Kragg. And runes are a holy secret, that needs a worthy apprentice to carry. And Kragg hadn't found one yet.
2) It's a boon for Dwarves, not Mathilde.
She can't use runes, both for religious/social (they are for priests of Grungni) and practical (40+ years of study to learn) reasons.
Also, it's been argued that forcing dwarves to do things for themselves is both not a true repayment and rather arrogant.
 
Dark as Silver said:
So not sure if I missed it. Did we get new papers out of this? I saw we've got fresh observations on Eshin sorcery, in the same vein do we have anything on the dragon or was that a situation where we never really saw it casting? I also figure generals and sorts back in the Empire (and probably more than a few dwarves) would probably be interested in a proper report of what went down and the tactics.
I guess anything on Bok is gated behind much research, but it will be fun to co-author with Kragg... at first... until he turns out to be even more of a perfectionist than our first paper.
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Probably hasn't been updated yet; BoneyM doesn't really need to do so until it's time to present paper-writing topics for the next Turn.
 
PurposefulZephyr said:
Belegar can try to convince him, but Kragg... well, he's Kragg. And runes are a holy secret, that needs a worthy apprentice to carry. And Kragg hadn't found one yet.
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Also don't they have provisions against writing them down under any circumstances barring the absolutely most dire.

From a human perspective, the dwarves probably are at that and have been for a while, but they're more stubborn in this situation.
 
Robotninja said:
Can't wait to see the reaction to Mathilde killing the bulk of a Waaaaaaagh when the diary gets to that.
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Thanks! I'm thinking it might be a bit anticlimactic, with the Undumgi underground for the zero-hour, but I'm not just going to ignore it, for sure.

What I've kinda decided to do is keep the focus a bit more on the off-screen moments, and the stuff that doesn't get much exposition, and creates more of a sense of time and place around the retaking. So looks at Ulrikadrin and the small skirmishes the Undumgi are fighting, and some more facetime between characters who only occasionally pay to Mathilde's attention.

Almost this entire diary was built of the idea that some sort of filler was needed between the big celebration and the Karagil assault to give a sense of the months passing, and one line from Belegar to Gotri in the council meeting.

And it was fun to expand! I like writing in little things like Gotri's views on street names or that drinking contest between Algrund and Undumgi from a bit ago. No reason to ever consider them canon, but I like to think they reflect how I hear the canon voices of those characters.

Wutnhammer said:
Could we use our boon to get kragg to write a book detailing his knowledge of runecraft? Yes he's ancient but nothing will last forever and he WILL die someday. Frame it as trying to keep the dwarves from falling further from the golden age maybe
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I think this falls under the 'no leverage over Kragg' clause, where Belegar can ask but Kragg does what he wants.
 
Lupercal said:
...could we not Alratan? You too @ninjafish & @Exmorri? We seem to have a debate about the ontological metaphysics of warhammer fantasy gods every other day and so far both sides have failed to convince each other. Could we please give it a rest until it is actually relevent to the quest?

Edit: Yes. I am aware that I have been part of the problem.
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Dark as Silver said:
Or PM's. Private messages are always an option.
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It seems to me that opening a side-thread might also be a good idea. A place to debate that sort of thing and reference if/when it becomes necessary (though for some reason its nagging at me that that might be against the site rules. I dont think so, but...). I, for one, would love to see this quest move into a bigger scale thing, more into the games of gods and empires (not to say that's the right direction or that I don't enjoy what we are doing right now); I was looking back on the character sheet and... damn, Math is SCARY. I mean, I love it, and she worked hard and still does, but she is really, really SCARY.
I really want to see her embrace and directly help Ranald in some ways more... intentionally. The last big thing we did for him was not planned in the big-scale sense. We didn't know that opportunity was going to arrive until it did. I mean, my headcanon-ultimate end goal is godhood for Math. But thats a long way off.

My thoughts on the Boon are coming soon.
 
I've been hyper busy with college work, hell week, and finals week (at least at my college, the week before finals is generally worse than finals themselves) and (sadly) playing catchup in some classes. C is a hard language to code in, and I still am not great at it. So I have not read any of the thread since the update, so I don't know what is/has being discussed/shot down.

So, here's my thoughts on the Boon, with that caveat. I think its probably the most valuable thing we "own" (save maybe our great deed), and I definitely fall into the "mustn't be too hasty" group with this sort of thing. We should spend a lot of time developing what we want to do with it before we go about doing it, outside and, if needed, inside the story, before we spend it. I'll admit the great library idea appeals (partially just because I LOVE books and libraries, and want our own Library of Alexandria), but again: mustn't be too hasty. This sort of a Boon is a once-in-a-lifetime sort of thing, and its something I, for one, do not want to use only to say "damn, wish we had that Boon still" and regret our decision.

Lightwhispers said:
One possible thing for if Mathilde dies with the Boon unused, is to (in her will) ask Belegar to ensure that somedwarf (maybe get Gunnars or his colleagues in on it) to take guardianship of the Liber Mortis, with the description of its contents, and to judge if an undead disaster is big enough for someone to be allowed to look at it. Having it in the keeping of the Dwarves could well be a very good idea, as they can hold the knowledge within without being tempted to use it. (Because they can't, as far as the dangerous stuff goes.)
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I think this is a really lovely idea that fits really well, but would probably mostly be just fluff because... ya'know, if she dies, that's it, that's the quest. If course, might not be, if its a "mysterious disappearance, presumed dead but actually not"-type thing. No idea how that'd happen, but I could see it. It's a good contingency plan. The dwarves are about as good a keepers for that book get, save probably the Slann that Math really doesn't know anything about.
 
Lupercal said:
...could we not Alratan? You too @ninjafish & @Exmorri? We seem to have a debate about the ontological metaphysics of warhammer fantasy gods every other day and so far both sides have failed to convince each other. Could we please give it a rest until it is actually relevent to the quest?

Edit: Yes. I am aware that I have been part of the problem.
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In my opinion if people bring these things up, they need to be adressed. Not everyone is part of the crowd of people who read every last page of this thread, so i don't think we should curtail discussion just because people like me and you are sick of it, as long as things stay civil. It ain't fair to go to new people who have questions or suggestions relating to these metaphysics and tell them they aren't allowed to discuss these things because they were discussed already. Not if we don't have an official FAQ with these things in it.
 
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All of the people involved in that discussion are part of the active poster crowd, though? Was there actually anybody new in there that your post might be referring to?
 
Chronic said:
In my opinion if people bring these things up, they need to be adressed. Not everyone is part of the crowd of people who read every last page of this thread, so i don't think we should curtail discussion just because people like me and you are sick of it, as long as things stay civil. It ain't fair to go to new people who have questions or suggestions relating to these metaphysics and tell them they aren't allowed to discuss these things because they were discussed already. Not if we don't have an official FAQ with these things in it.
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The issue is that it is not new people or people who haven't discussed it before who keep bringing this up. It is the same four or five of us who never say anything new.

As regards an FAQ for it... part of the problem is that we (as in Mathilde) don't, maybe even can't, know which of these positions are correct. So any questions to BoneyM are probably going to get answers along the lines of "try it and find out".
 
BoneyM said:
Extinct. Most of them chose to remain behind and seal away tombs, vaults and treasuries. The very few survivors were reabsorbed back into the Karaz-a-Karak Thungnisson Clan.
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Right, so there probably isn't any of their knowledge left in their bodies. If we want it, we will probably have to physically drag their souls out of the Underearth. Which, while difficult, shouldn't technically be impossible.

... Unless dwarves store information in their skulls instead of their fleshy brains. Does anyone know if dwarves could plausibly keep their memories in their bones? It is important for developing new plans for our Karak's( my own) future!
 
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Lupercal said:
The issue is that it is not new people or people who haven't discussed it before who keep bringing this up. It is the same four or five of us who never say anything new.
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I feel that new players and not-everything readers is what a ban on these discussions hurts the second most tough. To them the metaphysics of Warhammer might very well be interesting or not problematic, even if you and i have heard it a lot of times. And it isn't even like it is completely off topic, Mathildes relationship with the gods has long been a part of the quest. The ones it hurts the most of course is people who like discussing Warhammer metaphysics, though they seem to be a small demographic haha.

It just feels a bit elitist to me to try to get rid of topics just because a few veterans are sick of reading about it.

Lupercal said:
As regards an FAQ for it... part of the problem is that we (as in Mathilde) don't, maybe even can't, know which of these positions are correct. So any questions to BoneyM are probably going to get answers along the lines of "try it and find out".
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The answer might be to have a poster collate the discussion posts on the topic in one post and threadmark them. Though that does have the problem of perhaps giving these posts a more authoritarative feel than they might deserve.

Honestly, I'd just let them keep discussing it. It's fiiine. Doesn't hurt anybody as long as no rules are broken.
 
Chronic said:
I feel that new players and not-everything readers is what a ban on these discussions hurts the second most tough. To them the metaphysics of Warhammer might very well be interesting or not problematic, even if you and i have heard it a lot of times. And it isn't even like it is completely off topic, Mathildes relationship with the gods has long been a part of the quest. The ones it hurts the most of course is people who like discussing Warhammer metaphysics, though they seem to be a small demographic haha.

It just feels a bit elitist to me to try to get rid of topics just because a few veterans are sick of reading about it.



The answer might be to have a poster collate the discussion posts on the topic in one post and threadmark them. Though that does have the problem of perhaps giving these posts a more authoritarative feel than they might deserve.

Honestly, I'd just let them keep discussing it. It's fiiine. Doesn't hurt anybody as long as no rules are broken.
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I'm not preposing a blanket ban on the topic though?
 
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