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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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torac said:
Karak Eight Peaks may be the single largest, most impactful positive change worldwide if it works out. I would see it in the same ballpark as Magnus founding the Colleges of Magic. If it heralds a revival of the dwarven race, (not likely, but plausible) then it may be even more significant. I don't want to take away resources from that. In fact, if Mathilde happened to receive a similar boon from another group, I'm fairly certain that many would vote to spend it to help the dwarves. Some posters have already been arguing to spend speculative elven favour to mend their relationship.

I think it would be entirely in character for Mathilde to tell Belegar that the biggest favour she could receive would be for him to remain a force of careful, deliberate, and most importantly positive change. The most important way he can do that is by ensuring the success of K8P, which will have so many consequences it seems ridiculous.
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Yes, but this is the part of the quest where people act incredibly arrogant. Really, I cringe at some of the implied superiority in the discussion about the poor dwarves and their obviously defective ways and how couldn't we use our boon to try and force them to be Better (tm) in a way defined by the superior wisdom and morality of us quest participants.

Just ask for something useful to Mathilde. Seriously.
 
TimEd said:
Also, aside from the disappearing/reappearing sword, is t Mathilde's sword a mundane looking gromil sword?
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It has a specific set of runes on it. (Kragg's master rune, one that he used for the first time on our sword and the last being one that he not only used on our sword for the first time, but no dwarf would want to have)
 
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chocolote12 said:
They do, though. They've got them. They're called Nautiluses.

They're not used much, but Dwarves wouldn't build them if they were death traps. (Actually, young dwarves do sign up to serve aboard them as an alternative to Slayerdom, according to the wiki, though).
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Alternative to slayers.... Going to Dwarf Rapture?

Who would be dwarf Andrew Ryan tho?
 
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TimEd said:
arent the runes invisible to the naked eye? I thought it can inly be seen through magesight equivalents?

Are the runes still visible but just looks mundane?
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Don't hold me to this, but I think they are always visible on our sword, but only light up when we used them.
 
Oshha said:
Don't hold me to this, but I think they are always visible on our sword, but only light up when we used them.
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found the quote
BoneyM said:
Three runes are carved into it, and the only reason they do not blaze with radiance is they have been specifically made not to,
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no change for when its used as far as I can tell. Still sort of interested in the 'still drawing Ulgu' bit of our sword though.
 
We could get some dogs and train them to recognice Mathilde by smell and give those to people we want to be able to recognice us.
 
Oshha said:
How would our arcane marks factor into this? I don't see how an impersonator could copy our Unnatural Shadow.
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This is a really good point, but the foregettable might apply to this as well. I think there are a few levels of how bad forgettable is:
1) Just the face. This seems the most justified by the source Material, but Arcane Marks do vary, like Regimand's Smoke Beard.
2) The body.
3) Body + soul. This would include arcane marks. I could see this happening pretty easily.
4) You. Your existence and your deeds are forgettable. This is the worst case scenario.
 
Oshha said:
How would our arcane marks factor into this? I don't see how an impersonator could copy our Unnatural Shadow.
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Illusion. Light spells. Carrying a very flickering torch.

It's a recurring issue with certain kinds of very clever security mechanisms: "An impersonator couldn't copy this" - but an impersonator doesn't need to fool the universe, only the guard. ;)
A company spends six figures on new security cards, and then a pen tester waves a $2 piece of plastic while slipping in behind an employee with a real card.
 
So there's broadly three boons I'd be happy to request right now.

1) Belegars hand in marriage.
2) infinite expenses account for our research (within reason)
3) Bolthole and place of operations for human magisters that aren't practising dark magic.

With number three, I'd be hoping to get a full suite of runic enchantments laid down to build a campus that can be burn away dhar. Sort of a building scale rune of Valaya.
 
torac said:
I think it would be entirely in character for Mathilde to tell Belegar that the biggest favour she could receive would be for him to remain a force of careful, deliberate, and most importantly positive change. The most important way he can do that is by ensuring the success of K8P, which will have so many consequences it seems ridiculous.

Basically, he should dedicate himself to the path already taken. Don't be radical for the sake of being radical, but don't exclude things just because the are not traditional. It should not obviously cost him everything, but asking a King to dedicate his life to something is exactly the kind of favour I'd call transcendent.
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It seems pretty grossly offensive to imply that Belegar wouldn't do his job as a king to the best of his abilities. Like pushing for a specific policy wouldn't be insulting but generally telling Belegar 'Don't be shoddy' is a massive slap to the face.

Belegar shall do his damn best to be a good king because that's his duty and that's basically that for a dwarf. He'll do it with as much caution and moderation as he as an individual is psychologically capable of because he's a competent ruler that has gone through several formative experiences and has decent diplomatic and intrigue related capabilities.
 
Briefvoice said:
Yes, but this is the part of the quest where people act incredibly arrogant. Really, I cringe at some of the implied superiority in the discussion about the poor dwarves and their obviously defective ways and how couldn't we use our boon to try and force them to be Better (tm) in a way defined by the superior wisdom and morality of us quest participants.

Just ask for something useful to Mathilde. Seriously.
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Zero Gravitas said:
It seems pretty grossly offensive to imply that Belegar wouldn't do his job as a king to the best of his abilities. Like pushing for a specific policy wouldn't be insulting but generally telling Belegar 'Don't be shoddy' is a massive slap to the face.
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It is fascinating that you seem to have taken pretty much the opposite of what I meant from my post.

My wish for Belegar is quite the opposite of arrogance. It is saying "I cannot think of anything better or more important that what you are already doing, so don't let me interrupt you."

I honestly do not see how it could be arrogant, or imply that our "implied superiority" is needed to make shoor the "defective" "poor dwarves" or not doing a "shoddy" job. Seriously, where do you get that stuff? I didn't even realize @Briefvoioce was complaining about my post until the last line, since the complaint was so divorced from what I thought I had written.
 
torac said:
It is fascinating that you seem to have taken pretty much the opposite of what I meant from my post.

My wish for Belegar is quite the opposite of arrogance. It is saying "I cannot think of anything better or more important that what you are already doing, so don't let me interrupt you."

I honestly do not see how it could be arrogant, or imply that our "implied superiority" is needed to make shoor the "defective" "poor dwarves" or not doing a "shoddy" job. Seriously, where do you get that stuff? I didn't even realize @Briefvoioce was complaining about my post until the last line, since the complaint was so divorced from what I thought I had written.
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I think @Briefvoice was talking about the various proposals to ask Belegar to change dwarf culture in several ways: "have more kids" "change your attitude about tech adoption" etc.

That said, I do not think your proposal is a good one, because, while @Zero Gravitas took a pretty harsh tone, they were basically correct: Belegar is already doing that, not because he owes us anything, but because of who he is as a person, and so for Mathilde to ask him to do that is either a complete non-use of the favor (leaving Belegar still in our debt because we didn't actually use the favor) or implies that he might drop the ball if he isn't required by the terms of our favor to keep doing what he's doing (which is pretty damn condescending). "No result" vs "condescending" isn't a coin I'm particularly eager to flip.
 
torac said:
My wish for Belegar is quite the opposite of arrogance. It is saying "I cannot think of anything better or more important that what you are already doing, so don't let me interrupt you."
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That is almost certainly the intent behind the idea, but the argument seems to be that King Belegar won't see it that way, and it's an argument I am inclined to support.

Personally, I do feel we need to ask for something concrete, for Belegar's Peace of Mind in fulfilling the Dalaz Kron. Telling Belegar to continue on his path as part of the Dalaz Kron, I suspect would weigh on Belegar's psyche substantially, because it means his pragmatism is an ongoing burden he has to bear, even if it breaks him. I feel the request is too open-ended, indefinite and vague for Belegar's peace of mind, even if this is what he's going to do anyway. At the very least, I feel there is a risk that this request would backfire and weigh down Belegar's psyche even further, given how inconcrete this request is.

Now, if this request was tied to some kind of tangible reward to Mathilde that would make a big difference to Mathilde's interest that obligates Belegar to continue to be a force for positive change in order to deliver on it, that may help redress this objection. From that perspective, Sanctuary for the Colleges sounds like a very good idea to me, since it obligates that Belegar continue to be a force for positive change in order for this request to be honored. So too is Belegar funding research projects that the thread thinks will overall benefit the forces of order against Chaos, the spawns of Nagash, and the Greenskins.
 
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Keep in mind variations of "blow off the Boon" and "Do what you already were doing" plays strongly against the spirit of the Boon, which is that debts owed, good and bad, should be repaid in fairness.
Do not deny him the repayment or ask for trivial things we could afford with our fat stacks of regular Dwarf Favor.
 
Well, one use of the favor could be as a failsafe agsinst a worse case scenario. Like say a Karaz Ankor civil war.
 
I can't think of anything which we want from Belegar that he isn't already giving to us. Maybe ask him to reconcile with the High King.
 
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