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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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St0rmweaver said:
Regarding the transcendent boon, perhaps it can be used to alleviate the Slayer Problem.

I mean, it would be like slapping a fish to that one Slayer Hold but a boon that says 'this super awesome person that retook the Karak Eight Peaks asks that those dwarves who cannot fulfill their oaths anymore to look for another way to make their ancestors proud' would probably entice some dwarfs to not die dye their hair orange but look for anything else to do, even drudgery. So long as hope exists and all that, which we've already proven.
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I think that would be a request of the "Break Belegar" variety.
 
St0rmweaver said:
Regarding the transcendent boon, perhaps it can be used to alleviate the Slayer Problem.

I mean, it would be like slapping a fish to that one Slayer Hold but a boon that says 'this super awesome person that retook the Karak Eight Peaks asks that those dwarves who cannot fulfill their oaths anymore to look for another way to make their ancestors proud' would probably entice some dwarfs to not die dye their hair orange but look for anything else to do, even drudgery. So long as hope exists and all that, which we've already proven.

@BoneyM is Mathilde's boon different from the other wizards? Considering she arguably planned and was instrumental the whole retake all Karaks in a single day thing. Who else received the boon other than the wizards?
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I really really don't think it's a good idea for us to try and get Belegar to change Slayer culture. We might not agree with it but Boney has made some good points about slayers being a cultural safety valve. We don't want to try and plug that.
 
St0rmweaver said:
Regarding the transcendent boon, perhaps it can be used to alleviate the Slayer Problem.

I mean, it would be like slapping a fish to that one Slayer Hold but a boon that says 'this super awesome person that retook the Karak Eight Peaks asks that those dwarves who cannot fulfill their oaths anymore to look for another way to make their ancestors proud' would probably entice some dwarfs to not die dye their hair orange but look for anything else to do, even drudgery. So long as hope exists and all that, which we've already proven.
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The boon isn't of the race of dwarves, its of Belegar. He already views Slayers as a waste, and can't get rid of them.
 
B_omega said:
What if they found the Vault of the Last Archrune-wizard of K8P?

A room with two bodies that obviously died fighting back to back. One an elf and the other bears the appearance of a rune master.

Countless fossilized goblins and orcs surrounded the pair.

It appears that the dwarf have been wounded and the elf was protecting him.
As the elf finaly dies (clued in by countless goblin arrow piercing him), the runemaster flooded the room with lava, entombing the both of them with the boddies of their enemies.

On their bodies, numerous magical artifact are still visible. A gromil rune crafted magical staff, a chainmail shirt worn by the dwarf made from elven silver, forging hammer with four runes.

The elf indeed dies defending his home and friends.
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That's actually a really interesting thing to consider. How would an elf who died on good terms with dwarves be regarded? They'd certainly have died before the War of the Beard, so would they be seen as "one of the good elves" who cared about honoring the alliance, and was just as betrayed in death by Caledor II as the dwarves were themselves?
 
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picklepikkl said:
Because there are a lot of other things to do with our AP? There aren't a lot of Shallyans in K8P. Francesco will get to it when he gets to it.
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We can't have Shallyan choices now because there are no Shallyans already here. We can't take Shallyan actions elsewhere, despite being able to take college actions. We can't bring Shallyans home without stepping on somebody else's toes. We want Shallyans.

As we are his shadowy megacorp boss, Francesco had better pre-phase his phalanges. :V

More seriously, I really don't see any other way to get it done; spending favor or gold on it sound like they could get it done trivially, but somebody'd get upset because we went around them, and if we do it in Nar that means Francesco anyways. Can you think of anything? (Assume for the sake of the conversation that we're talking about how to do it, not whether or not we should).
 
chocolote12 said:
We can't have Shallyan choices now because there are no Shallyans already here. We can't take Shallyan actions elsewhere, despite being able to take college actions. We can't bring Shallyans home without stepping on somebody else's toes. We want Shallyans.

As we are his shadowy megacorp boss, Francesco had better pre-phase his phalanges. :V

More seriously, I really don't see any other way to get it done; spending favor or gold on it sound like they could get it done trivially, but somebody'd get upset because we went around them, and if we do it in Nar that means Francesco anyways. Can you think of anything? (Assume for the sake of the conversation that we're talking about how to do it, not whether or not we should).
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I see no real urgency about getting Shallyans here. As immigration increases, Shallyans will show up; they're a popular religion. I'll say the same thing I did to Glau about demographics: give it a couple of years to see if Francesco handles it on his own schedule before we use our own resources to write it on top of his schedule.
TempestK said:
Haven't seen Boney all day. Hope he's alright.
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My hope is that he's just busy with holiday commitments and such.
Kliden said:
Honestly, I hope he takes a break...he's been going pretty hard for months now. Getting burnt out is a real concern for long-term quests.
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He mentioned that the quest is going on hiatus from December 20 until "shortly after the New Year." Hopefully that helps with any extant stress of the form "this quest is extremely active and a lot of people want pieces of his attention."
 
picklepikkl said:
This is something Belegar owes us. If we asked Belegar to find an alternative to Slayers... he would try, but setting him against tradition that way would probably break him or the Karak. He's already Stressed from that sort of thing. We have to approach the Slayer issue from another angle.
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That being said, per word of Boney changing the Slayer ritual needs someone to find another Ancestor God mimicking behavior as potent as Grimir shaving his head and walking out into the wastelands. If we phrased our favor as "Spend your free time and/or order Gunnars to review all of the deeds of the Ancestor in order to find a suitable substitute ritual and then push that instead of Slayerhood", it's not likely to break Belegar. It might cause some issues from locking up his Piety advisor on a super long term project and it might also widen the rift between K8P and the rest of the Karaz Ankor due to ruffling feathers (also it's not guaranteed to work, same as all the other "convince X to do Y" boon uses), but it's not likely to break Belegar or K8P.
 
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veekie said:
...wonder what Ranald thinks about Venture Capitalists...
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From most to least relevant, a VC investment is in some ways a gamble, so he likes that. In addition, VC's can occasionally hire protection (read: Lawyers) to protect from oppressors (read: Government/Patent Trolls). If the VC deceives the start up, that could count for the third phase, but I don't think they can get theft to work unless they are an utter fraud.
 
Abhorsen said:
From most to least relevant, a VC investment is in some ways a gamble, so he likes that. In addition, VC's can occasionally hire protection (read: Lawyers) to protect from oppressors (read: Government/Patent Trolls). If the VC deceives the start up, that could count for the third phase, but I don't think they can get theft to work unless they are an utter fraud.
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Corporate espionage, there's something that easily qualifies for theft.
 
me.me.here said:
That being said, per word of Boney changing the Slayer ritual needs someone to find another Ancestor God mimicking behavior as potent as Grimir shaving his head and walking out into the wastelands. If we phrased our favor as "Spend your free time and/or order Gunnars to review all of the deeds of the Ancestor in order to find a suitable substitute ritual and then push that instead of Slayerhood", it's not likely to break Belegar. It might cause some issues from locking up his Piety advisor on a super long term project and it might also widen the rift between K8P and the rest of the Karaz Ankor due to ruffling feathers (also it's not guaranteed to work, same as all the other "convince X to do Y" boon uses), but it's not likely to break Belegar or K8P.
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Gunnars sacrificed his history. Might that include past failures?
 
me.me.here said:
That being said, per word of Boney changing the Slayer ritual needs someone to find another Ancestor God mimicking behavior as potent as Grimir shaving his head and walking out into the wastelands. If we phrased our favor as "Spend your free time and/or order Gunnars to review all of the deeds of the Ancestor in order to find a suitable substitute ritual and then push that instead of Slayerhood", it's not likely to break Belegar. It might cause some issues from locking up his Piety advisor on a super long term project and it might also widen the rift between K8P and the rest of the Karaz Ankor due to ruffling feathers (also it's not guaranteed to work, same as all the other "convince X to do Y" boon uses), but it's not likely to break Belegar or K8P.
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I am 100% here for this, I will dedicate hours digging through lore to find something beard-shave worthy.
 
me.me.here said:
That being said, per word of Boney changing the Slayer ritual needs someone to find another Ancestor God mimicking behavior as potent as Grimir shaving his head and walking out into the wastelands. If we phrased our favor as "Spend your free time and/or order Gunnars to review all of the deeds of the Ancestor in order to find a suitable substitute ritual and then push that instead of Slayerhood", it's not likely to break Belegar. It might cause some issues from locking up his Piety advisor on a super long term project and it might also widen the rift between K8P and the rest of the Karaz Ankor due to ruffling feathers (also it's not guaranteed to work, same as all the other "convince X to do Y" boon uses), but it's not likely to break Belegar or K8P.
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There's always becoming a submarine operator, a career that's considered even worse than being a Slayer for Dwarfs. If we could make the Nautilus more reliable and capable of longer dives, a long term tour of duty on one might serve as a worthwhile substitute.
 
runeblue360 said:
There's always becoming a submarine operator, a career that's considered even worse than being a Slayer for Dwarfs. If we could make the Nautilus more reliable and capable of longer dives, a long term tour of duty on one might serve as a worthwhile substitute.
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But that doesn't have the cultural significance that Grimnir's act does.
 
me.me.here said:
That being said, per word of Boney changing the Slayer ritual needs someone to find another Ancestor God mimicking behavior as potent as Grimir shaving his head and walking out into the wastelands. If we phrased our favor as "Spend your free time and/or order Gunnars to review all of the deeds of the Ancestor in order to find a suitable substitute ritual and then push that instead of Slayerhood", it's not likely to break Belegar. It might cause some issues from locking up his Piety advisor on a super long term project and it might also widen the rift between K8P and the rest of the Karaz Ankor due to ruffling feathers (also it's not guaranteed to work, same as all the other "convince X to do Y" boon uses), but it's not likely to break Belegar or K8P.
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Belegar would exert all possible effort. If its something Gunnar could research in a few AP...spend that AP and learn about the Ancestor Gods from him in our own time
 
The dwarfs in WHFB have nowhere near the technology needed to make submarines not an elaborate form of suicide.
 
13th Fleet said:
The dwarfs in WHFB have nowhere near the technology needed to make submarines not an elaborate form of suicide.
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They do, though. They've got them. They're called Nautiluses.

They're not used much, but Dwarves wouldn't build them if they were death traps. (Actually, young dwarves do sign up to serve aboard them as an alternative to Slayerdom, according to the wiki, though).
 
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Neshuakadal said:
But that doesn't have the cultural significance that Grimnir's act does.
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In the book they were introduced, it's already mentioned that volunteering as a Nautilus crewmember is considered a substitute for becoming a Trollslayer. Since that's the only book they're even brought up in, there's no lore conflict that would make it nonviable.

13th Fleet said:
The dwarfs in WHFB have nowhere near the technology needed to make submarines not an elaborate form of suicide.
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Man O' War says otherwise. While casualties are high, that seems like something that can be ironed out over time, perhaps with research on oxygen tanks or an enchanted item/plant of Azyr/Ghyran*. Considering Steam Tanks are possible, it's clear the Warhammer world doesn't give much of a fuck about how physics should work when it comes to stuff like this.

*While not something they'd normally accept, they're going into this assuming they're signing up to commit honourable suicide anyway. Between that and our deeds, I think there's room for negotiation.
 
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