Chamon is the Wind of practicality and rationality. That attitude should be fully compatible with the mindset required to master it.
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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Chamon is the Wind of practicality and rationality. That attitude should be fully compatible with the mindset required to master it.
- Location
- Aotearoa
As for Johann, the ritual in RoS says this-
"The most difficult version (Magic 4, Casting Number 22, 400 gc of gold) can turn an entire arm or leg, your head, your heart, or your lungs to gold."
Which kind-of, sort-of equates to the difficulty for casting Fiendishly Difficult spells, I.e. ones you'd really want Magic 4 in the RPG to cast (or Magic 7+ in quest)
My interpretation is, assuming the ritual has the same difficulty in quest, his particular relationship with Chamon probably gives him a conditional "+1 Magic" inside his area of ability (affecting metal), and likely a corresponding reduction outside it.
(I'd also caution that RoS talks about turning the whole limb into gold, while Quest Verse only talks about gilding the surface or skin.
"You permanently substitute one of your body parts with a replacement of gold."
So there are differences.)
"The most difficult version (Magic 4, Casting Number 22, 400 gc of gold) can turn an entire arm or leg, your head, your heart, or your lungs to gold."
Which kind-of, sort-of equates to the difficulty for casting Fiendishly Difficult spells, I.e. ones you'd really want Magic 4 in the RPG to cast (or Magic 7+ in quest)
My interpretation is, assuming the ritual has the same difficulty in quest, his particular relationship with Chamon probably gives him a conditional "+1 Magic" inside his area of ability (affecting metal), and likely a corresponding reduction outside it.
(I'd also caution that RoS talks about turning the whole limb into gold, while Quest Verse only talks about gilding the surface or skin.
"You permanently substitute one of your body parts with a replacement of gold."
So there are differences.)
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Asheram
Not quite altogether
- Location
- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
Yeah, this reinforces the idea you had about his spells being physical only. His magic is an effect he can produce that affects the physical world, and he can't get his head around the mystical part. Doubly so in that he's an engineer, he likely can get his head around clockwork since he sees it in action, but I imagine he's having a tougher time with the maths behind it.
Remember that Magic score in the Roleplaying game is about half of what it is here. A Magic Score of 4 is what a Lord Magister might have.
Is there any evidence that he's actually an engineer? His Learning score pretty explicitly says he uses magic to skip straight to the discoveries, rather than him using conventional skill or understanding.
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- Location
- Aotearoa
Yes, I do remember that, I had just gone back and edited it for clarity.
You know, I'm wondering whether it might just be a Grey Order peculiarity to make sure to teach all their students Eltharin. After all, the given reason that they do it as an institutionalized thing, is for some kind of added utility in making codes and secret messages and stuff, but they do do it.
Other Colleges might not be as gung-ho about making sure everybody learns Eltharin. It's probably an elective for them. Or in fact they might think that teaching somebody Lingua Praestantia and a language very very close to Lingua Praestantia too soon, might just result in confusion for the student.
Or maybe Johann just sucks at languages. Mathilde assuming everyone -- or at least every mage -- to know multiple languages may not be the most common expectation. Still, though, you're right in that the descriptor in his Learning stat is not super flattering towards him. I'm not sure that he's precisely expressed disinterest, though. Lack of natural talent for it, maybe. Not being good at it, and not being patient like Max, yeah. Disinterested in academic things? I dunno. Has that even really come up as a topic of discussion yet between Johann and Mathilde?
- Location
- Aotearoa
My (Doylist?) interpretation is that if Johann was interested in rigorous intellectual academia, his Learning score would be higher and be described something more like-
"He delights in figuring out the why behind the what and how his magical insights grant freely."
"He delights in figuring out the why behind the what and how his magical insights grant freely."
Asheram
Not quite altogether
- Location
- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
Yeah, that's my bad. He originally stated that he was there to study the Dawi artillery and somehow that got into everything.
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
It is, but calling it 'Elf' is what stood out. He seems utterly uninterested in things beyond things that apply to him figuring out/aquiring skaven stuff.
He seemed interested enough in learning the way of Grungni's pick.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
A directly applicable martial discipline that he's being paid to learn?
- Location
- Finland
Which makes it easier for him to acquire skaven stuff.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
He was paid that first turn. Since then he has stuck if it of his own volition and in his own time (and I believe funds).
Well, on the topic of romance, if it happens. I favor Johann right now.
He is a peer to Mathilde in power and experience, he works well with her on missions, Mathilde finds him attractive (from what little commentary she does give on that), and he is resigned to the fact that he can't hide things from her (a trait many a boyfriend and husband end up learning) so he is ahead of the game there.
He is a peer to Mathilde in power and experience, he works well with her on missions, Mathilde finds him attractive (from what little commentary she does give on that), and he is resigned to the fact that he can't hide things from her
(a trait many a boyfriend and husband end up learning) so he is ahead of the game there.I definitely get the sense that Johann is essentially a sort of gearhead/tinkerer type, where he's mostly gained skill/knowledge by playing around with his hands - he hasn't bothered learning other languages because it's a skill that makes learning the theory/academic side of things easier and he hasn't bothered with book learning because it doesn't work for him. This extends to magic, where indirect effects and/or effects that don't take place where he can see them (I imagine Johann's equivalent of Windsight is either nonexistent or very poor) are much harder - he can't pick apart an embedded magical effect that he can't interact with by using Dispel, but something like Breach the Unkown or Tale of Metal where he does a set of actions and then pokes the target and receives information is right in his wheelhouse.
Similarly, his approach to engineering is to take it apart and play with all the pieces and figure it out that way, which works great for something like cannon/mortar based artillery where the actual use is relatively simple and it's a matter of trial and error/walking shots to aim where you want but doesn't work well for trying to play with something like a ratling gun that uses a more complex breech-loading procedure and has a separate engine for turning the barrels. For physical engineering Johann's weakness is stuff with multiple parts that works based on their interactions, because the whole thing gets disrupted when he starts messing around with individual bits.
Similarly, his approach to engineering is to take it apart and play with all the pieces and figure it out that way, which works great for something like cannon/mortar based artillery where the actual use is relatively simple and it's a matter of trial and error/walking shots to aim where you want but doesn't work well for trying to play with something like a ratling gun that uses a more complex breech-loading procedure and has a separate engine for turning the barrels. For physical engineering Johann's weakness is stuff with multiple parts that works based on their interactions, because the whole thing gets disrupted when he starts messing around with individual bits.
Akasha
The Only Truth
- Location
- 「̛̛́́ ͏̨҉̕͏ ͏̶̴」
Hold on a sec. One of the main jobs of Wizards who reached the rank of Magister is doing research and publishing stuff. Lingua Protestantia was repeatedly described as the language of magic, required to describe it because other commonly available languages literally can't do that. I can buy a single person somehow climbing to Magister without knowing that language, especially if they're a Gold Wizard, since they could have simply focused their research on non-magical fields, but how can an entire college of magical researchers work if they don't know the language? Maybe Johann sucked at it, which would fit with other evidence of him sucking at non-practical stuff, but surely they teach their reaearchers the language said people need to communicate their findings in the first place?
Edit: Also, fuck romance. It sucks anyway.
Edit: Also, fuck romance. It sucks anyway.
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chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
All wizards know Magic, it's how they cast their spells. Eltharin is a related language, and possibly heavily optional. If Johann didn't know Magic I can't see how he could possibly have made it to Journeyman, much less Magister.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
I think this makes sense. We know he doesn't use guns, but he was firing a dwarven gun when we first approached him - mostly to test it out. I can definitely see him as a slightly more sophisticated version of the "willing to get their hands dirty" mechanic character.
Akasha
The Only Truth
- Location
- 「̛̛́́ ͏̨҉̕͏ ͏̶̴」
Other languages, such as Reikspiel, were repeatedly described as lacking the required grammar and vocabulary to describe the movement and interaction of the Winds of Magic. That's why "Elf" is a big deal. Boney explicitly claimed that everyone's relationship with their wind is different, even in the same College, much less with different Winds. How do you describe the casting of our MAP to a Gold Wizard? It's not just describing gestures or incantations. Everyone's relationship with the Winds is different, and you need a language that can adapt. "Elf" is perfect for this, because much like Eltharin, it is absurdly flexible. How, then, do you write papers on magic if the language(s) you know literally lack the grammar structures and vocabulary to describe your findings?
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Elf is eltharin. Lingua Praestina is a different language. It's related, but not the same.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Praestantia is a language used to describe magical effects, but it's not clear to me that it's actually used to cast magic; or, if it is, it's not clear to me that you need to be able to speak it as a language to be able to produce magical effects. We have Word of Boney on this:
So either Boney left out Praestantia, or fluency in it is not needed to become a Magister.
According to Realms of Sorcery, actual spells can only be properly cast in a magical language. Trying without it is very dangerous, just begging to miscast.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Magic is the language of human magic. It's based on the elf language, which is based itself off of the elf magic language. Not speaking elf doesn't mean you don't know how to speak Magic, which is what you need to know.
Magic is the common term for the language, and I don't have the memory to type its fancy latin version. You need to speak your spells in magic in order to cast them right, or else you can't cast them at all. The Academic language of the colleges is in Magic, because that's the only way to actually communicate any of the magical concepts the papers cover.
- Location
- Finland
It's possible to learn magic without knowing Praestentia (humans had magic users before Teclis and colleges), it probably just makes it harder to understand the theory behind it and to explain how things are done.
Johann might have been able to scrape by through pure talent and having a master willing to teach them by example until he learned the required spells.
It makes it much more dangerous to try to use magic if you can't use an arcane language for your spells.