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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Pipeman said:
Furthermore, having a somewhat meta vote about this kind of thing is the only way to actually avoid Mathilde acting out of character or by GM fiat when it comes to romance.
It's how you prevent things coming out of the left field, because it determines where players intend for things to go in advance and lets the GM introduce that smoothly into the narrative and player character.
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I really don't like the idea of romance with any of the characters we currently interact with, and counting the entire quest the only one who we legitimately built up something organic with got stabbed by a spooky skeleton more than a real life year ago, but I will agree that one of the things that wasn't an issue with the romance vote was it being out of character or anything.

Through the Mathilde/Thread Identical Mindset hypothesis (which I enjoy applying to everything), the thread voting on potential romance options is less an OOC decision and more a conscious acknowledgement of anything the thread might actually already be feeling (even if that means acknowledging that we're not feeling anything). Particular feelings like that don't run into the issue of them coming out of left field if the left field is the players.
 
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Chopak said:
Thanks a lot! That does explain Thorek 's reaction.
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Also, I think that when they're compared Thorek is generally known for his skill as a runesmith, whereas Kragg is generally known for his age and knowledge. I could be wrong on this, though- I don't remember exactly where I picked up this bit of info, so it's possible I'm completely wrong on this.
 
Personally, I would have been all for romance with Abelheim, but the current options don't seem that grest. I suppose that can change if something unexpected happens, or simply if someone makes an especially persuasive argument for someone
 
runeblue360 said:
Viable partners
Roswita
Belegar
Panoramia
Johann

Semi-viable
Gunnars
Ruprecht Wulfhart
Ranald?

Potentially viable
Oswald Oswaldson
Soizic*
Asarnil?

Nope, just not happening
Kragg
Kazador
Abelheim

Any disagreements?
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Love it. And i agree with tiers.

Valmond said:
Also i have no idea why Johann keeps being brought up. More likely than Belegar because no major reasons why it could not happen. I just fail to see any reasons why it would.
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I can't speak for all, but for me:
Johann is a senior among other wizards and currently theoretically a peer as Magister. We did a lot of adventures together, more than with any single person. And he has a golden, so...
Tbh for me he is the only shipping option that does not sound forced.
 
Panaromia feels more like a younger sister or daughter, it would feel awkward romancing her (PoV). Adela, Hubert, Gretel and any future ducklings have the Panaromia issue. Roswita is alright, but as an EC that Does Not Like Wizards and is also female (political bombs ahoy) that relationship would seem be a non-starter. Maximilian is a good choice, I suppose. Johann is too exciting as a husband from my PoV. Wilhelma is an alright option, along with Anton and Brother Kasmir (that would be one rocky relationship though).

Kazador's children as husbands is pretty funny to talk about, but I have no idea how that would even work in practice. We haven't even met them. Gunnars is an enigma, which has it's pros and cons.

Overall I'd prefer a mundane partner for Mathilde (which cuts out every character lol). Or at least mundane-ish (I will qualify mundane-ish as 'Does not do magic' and is not EC or higher). I think she needs some stability in her life.
 
When it comes to romance, I really dislike how people hold social standing and political impact up as things that make it impossible or disqualify pursuing certain people. Like, sure, it might make it harder, but it just seems absurdly practical for matters of the heart. That hardship is exactly what makes romance stories interesting for better or worse.

Other than that, I think most people are viable romance options, if they're not already in a relationship and show interest in Mathilde if pursued romantically. I wouldn't be disappointed with any of them, because they'd all come with their own troubles and tribulations that can be overcome. Or maybe it would all fall apart. That would also be an interesting story to read.

One thing I would like is if perhaps some of the characters might show some interest in Mathilde of their own initiative, but that would be more time consuming for BoneyM, so I don't think it's strictly necessary.
 
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It really depends on what we want out of romance for Mathilde, isn't it? If we do want someone, for example, to be both familiar with Mathilde's world (as a magister) and be a participant on it, to have skill sets that strongly complement Mathilde, to have assets that off-sets Mathilde's weaknesses (for example diplomacy), for someone we know would be a very good father to Mathilde's hypothetical children, for a social equal, for someone where having magical children isn't a potential problem but a huge boon, and to be a collaborator in Mathilde's intellectual career... well Johann fits that bill. What Johann lacks in the eyes of many, is that ineffable chemistry, and the fact that Johann and Mathilde got off on a wrong foot. But people change and evolve over time, and honestly, a Metal husband whose emotions are very stable thanks to Chamon and gilding himself that has a lifespan that likely is similar to our own makes for a more appealing spouse on many levels, especially when I can actually see Mathilde and Johann going on adventures and traveling together to another continent.

For example, suppose we got our elusive ticket to getting tutored by a Slann in Lustria. Johann is one of the very few marriageable candidates where this journey out of the Old World represents a Honeymoon of sorts, as opposed to potentially years of mutual separation - Johann could poke at the Skaven technological assets in Lustria while we help the Lizardman fight against the Skaven in Lustria. Honestly, alot of the breaking points of a functioning relationship between Mathilde and a potential romantic partner, namely Mathilde's life-style and potential for nomadism, and the distance both geographically and career-wise between Mathilde and another partner simply doesn't exist with someone like Johann.

I can actually see a Johann-Mathilde marriage being one where both of us go on adventures together that other potential partners simply cannot be taken along, one where both partners can share a life in common as opposed to having to contend with having two parallel lives - a partnership where neither tie each other down, but actually enable each other further. And having two parallel lives is an issue that marrying a mundane is inevitably going to generate.

That being said, we still need to know more about Johann. What is his piety and which gods does he follow if any? What was his background, his family status, and what got him interested in poking at the Ratties? What would it be like for Mathilde and Johann to unwind down with small-talk? Does Johann have his own stash of "romance" hidden under his bed?

Imagine if Johann was actually a Ranaldite, and his initial lie came from honoring the Deceiver aspect of Ranald as payment for some favor Ranald did for him in the past....
 
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veekie said:
I'm not quite sure if thats wholly true though, since it seems that the Elves are being worn down, just less visibly so by taking the initiative and generally being near untouchable on their homeland(in exchange for everything outside their homeland being very sparse garrisons or rebel factions, not living settlements), while the dwarves have more holdings, but have more or less given up all initiative to their enemies
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I believe the elves still have foreign colonies. Arnheim shouldn't have fallen yet, and the isles of Elithis are still home to high elf settlements.
 
I would count myself on the 'No one yet' camp.

I guess it doesn't help that a good majority of the social interactions are ones that Mathilde initiated. I don't anyonepurposefully went out of their way to look for her? So I think my opinion would greatly change if some would, say, offer to accompany her on one of her (non-sneaky) tasks or missions.
 
Johann is the worst option in my opinion. First, we don't have much in common other than having magic. We like learning about magic, its deeper mysteries, etc. He just uses it as a tool to be figure out skaven tech. He really doesn't seem to care about magic at all, and is pretty bad at it, and shows little interest/ability in improving it.

Second, there is Mathilde's paranoia. First, yes, Mathilde is paranoid, and this is a good thing, otherwise she would be dead. I've made the argument before that Mathilde still distrusts even Anton. I don't think that Mathilde could ever truly trust Johann because he lied to her. She can trust him enough to just be colleagues, but never instinctively. There will always be the doubt of 'maybe this time he is lying to me' that she won't be able to get over.
 
runeblue360 said:
Viable partners
Roswita
Belegar
Panoramia
Johann

Semi-viable
Gunnars
Ruprecht Wulfhart
Ranald?

Potentially viable
Oswald Oswaldson
Soizic*
Asarnil?

Nope, just not happening
Kragg
Kazador
Abelheim

Any disagreements?
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I think you made a mistake? You must have confused the "viable partners" and "not happening" categories :/
for some reasons Kragg and Abelheim are in not happening (!) while Panoramia is in viable!
 
Abhorsen said:
Johann is the worst option in my opinion. First, we don't have much in common other than having magic. We like learning about magic, its deeper mysteries, etc. He just uses it as a tool to be figure out skaven tech. He really doesn't seem to care about magic at all, and is pretty bad at it, and shows little interest/ability in improving it.

Second, there is Mathilde's paranoia. First, yes, Mathilde is paranoid, and this is a good thing, otherwise she would be dead. I've made the argument before that Mathilde still distrusts even Anton. I don't think that Mathilde could ever truly trust Johann because he lied to her. She can trust him enough to just be colleagues, but never instinctively. There will always be the doubt of 'maybe this time he is lying to me' that she won't be able to get over.
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You don't get to Magic 6 and an almost completely gilded body without caring very deeply about magic and being truly exceptionally good at it.

And the frisson of tension between them about whether he can pull one over on her will keep things interesting.
 
Hmmm... It is unlikely that belegar will be able to follow Kazadors' example if he marries Mathilde. K8p needs princes :)

I think Belegar should remain in the "veteran cat owner" category.
 
Ericwinter said:
dude, it's fiction. Most powerful romances are forged in fire and life-threatening situations. Not that it's necessary, but that's usually how it goes. And nothing says we can't come back for the elf once we finish securing Eight Peaks. A few years would be the blink of an eye for them, and we would still need to make Mathilde immortal anyways, as some people plan to do.
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If we make Mathilde immortal..

Somehow i can see Belegar or Anton or young Mandred, dying old, respected or venerated, surrounded by his kin, children, grandkids and their grandkids (more then a few will be named Mathilde) in a warm bed, with Queen's 'Who wants to live forever' plays in the background.

Being immortal is only cool when your buddies live forever too.
 
Just throwing this out there: if you think none of the people we know very well at the moment is a viable prospect for romance, we can vote to spend social actions on the people we hardly know.

Like, our last social lineup included the following people we have had one or fewer conversations with:
  • Gotri
  • Titus Muggins
  • Elder Hluodwica
  • Francesco Caravello
  • Oswald Oswaldson
  • Soizic
  • Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart
I don't want to pick on the Johann shippers, because I see where they're coming from, but I would be really unhappy if he won "by default" simply because he's the person we've spent the most scenes with and so he's the only prospect voters feel like they actually know. Let's get to know people!
 
SuperSonicSound said:
That's only an issue if you think we're going to be casting spells during the process of having that spell cast on us. We wouldn't so it would be an issue.
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We are literally filled to the brim with Ulgu, and only getting Ulgu-ier. The thing where we attract smoke and mist around us is a side effect of us attracting Ulgu towards ourselves automatically. When we grab things they automatically fill with Ulgu; it's so innate that Kragg noticed it and worked Branalhune around the effect.
 
B_omega said:
If we make Mathilde immortal..

Somehow i can see Belegar or Anton or young Mandred, dying old, respected or venerated, surrounded by his kin, children, grandkids and their grandkids (more then a few will be named Mathilde) in a warm bed, with Queen's 'Who wants to live forever' plays in the background.

Being immortal is only cool when your buddies live forever too.
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Ulgu does not give us a chance on the immortality matter, or at least very long lived. We will certainly outlive Roswita and Mandred and probably Belegar unless he proves to be one of the rare dwarfs who become Living Ancestors.
 
chocolote12 said:
We are literally filled to the brim with Ulgu, and only getting Ulgu-ier. The thing where we attract smoke and mist around us is a side effect of us attracting Ulgu towards ourselves automatically. When we grab things they automatically fill with Ulgu; it's so innate that Kragg noticed it and worked Branalhune around the effect.
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Irrelevant, if we weren't capable of stopping channelling Ulgu for even a moment the seed literally wouldn't work. It does work so spells that work internally are viable as long as we have the restraint to not channel magic. BoneyM has repeatedly said that fertility and age aren't a problem for Mathilde due to having a life wizard on hand. You're literally arguing against WoG.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Irrelevant, if we weren't capable of stopping channelling Ulgu for even a moment the seed literally wouldn't work. It does work so spells that work internally are viable as long as we have the restraint to not channel magic. BoneyM has repeatedly said that fertility and age aren't a problem for Mathilde due to having a life wizard on hand. You're literally arguing against WoG.
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It doesn't need to make Dhar to be a nonstarter. It'll work for a human child because magic doesn't kill them, but a dwarf/human combination would be annihilated. There's a reason crossbreeds aren't a thing; we're talking about different genomes here, not ethnicities.
 
Garlak said:
I say again: this is cool stuff. :)


Googling 'supervolcano collapsed caldera' didn't get anything much, but eventually I did stumble upon one pic that from an angle looks pretty good. Also, they all had water in them, this one included, but nevermind that.




Gentlemen, behold! Mount Pinatubo. It's in the Philippines.

Though, I think it's just a trick of perspective that makes it look like it's actually surrounded by mountains. And even in the second picture, it looks more like hills than mountains.

Karak Eight Peaks though... how the hell do you get eight large sized mountains like that out of one caldera? It's not just a matter of height, I mean. It's also the fact that mountains are, uh... they're mountain-shaped. Mountains are big, and they have lots of stuff in them. A caldera's lip would... be thinner or something, I think.

Karak Eight Peaks... this looks like it might be both a caldera and a mountain range? Maybe? That it's 8 mountains, surrounding a former-supervolcano magma chamber.

Hmm. Question. Could the tarn on Karagril have been another -- weird -- example of a caldera? Or, that's not the right word, but... something created by a volcano? Or by part of a mountain collapsing or something? I dunno, I'm not a geologist, I don't know what the proper words are for these things.
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Mountains are generally caused by compressional forces; this area as a whole is part of a mountain chain (The World's Edge Mountains) which looks like a continent-continent collision to me. However, that doesn't square with a volcanic caldera, because the crust is too thick at that kind of boundary. My guess is that the mountain chain as a whole is the result of an ocean that got smushed between two continental plates (there is a name for this cycle but I forget it). So then the cycle goes something like
-Ocean between the East and the West.
-Convergent boundary on one or both sides; the volcano is created.
-The two plates hit each other. The Eight Peaks form, along with the rest of the mountain range. As the crust thickens under the mountain range, the magma supply is cut off and the volcano collapses into a caldera.

I don't know anything about Karagil geometry. What's it like.
 
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