Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[LotusPocus]

Regarding spell creation, instead of a Ulgu-sword inspired by Shadow Knife, why not copy the capacity of our sword to disappear and reappear at will?


It would be a much more versatile spell, used for stealing items, summon weapons and we could theoretically enchant our staff with it when crafting it.

 

[FallenPears]

Meanwhile in Eshin Sorcerer Quest:

"Look guys, I'm just saying a Grey Wizard would be really useful to the Under-Empire, think of all the leverage we could get with one! I know we've got to run from the dragon, but there's plenty of other Skaven for it to eat whilst we nab the man-thing. This has been a defeat, but it doesn't have to be a total one."

"She's surrounded by Dwarves and the dragon is coming right NOW! We are eating the first Mors we can find and leaving!"

 

[SCO]

Regarding spell creation, instead of a Ulgu-sword inspired by Shadow Knife, why not copy the capacity of our sword to disappear and reappear at will?


It would be a much more versatile spell, used for stealing items, summon weapons and we could theoretically enchant our staff with it when crafting it.

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While that would be cool, i think 'hammerspace' might be a bit beyond the theme of Ulgu. The effect of a shadowsword idea is almost the same as the rune sword, but only because it supposed to be selectively permeable to simulate it 'going away' and negating armor, not because the mechanics are the same.


But who knows, teleportation is in the Ulgu theme... somehow. Just add 'dimensional pocket travel' to it...

 

[veekie]

While that would be cool, i think 'hammerspace' might be a bit beyond the theme of Ulgu. The effect of a shadowsword idea is almost the same as the rune sword, but only because it supposed to be selectively permeable to simulate it 'going away', not because the mechanics are the same.


But who knows, teleportation is in the Ulgu theme... somehow. Just add 'dimensional pocket travel' to it...

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Uncertainty and confusion as applied to location

 

[Neshuakadal]

We know algrad does something with dimensions so it can't be completely out of Ulgu's tool box. He uses it for his mail for goodness sake! We could totally do a spell that mimics the rune of the unknown.

 

[LotusPocus]

While that would be cool, i think 'hammerspace' might be a bit beyond the theme of Ulgu. The effect of a shadowsword idea is almost the same as the rune sword, but only because it supposed to be selectively permeable to simulate it 'going away', not because the mechanics are the same.


But who knows, teleportation is in the Ulgu theme... somehow. Just add 'dimensional pocket travel' to it...

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I wasn't really focusing on the hammerspace aspect, but the fact that objects affected by the spell would be both present and absent, which is totally in Ulgu ballpark.

 

[atrophy]

Um if we do diplo then lets poke the dragon instead of skaven. also i havent catched up to the discussion , im like 20 pages behind currently.

Looting eshin stuff was my vote tough. I would prefer to do a loot roll and then talking to the dragon when we hide the loot with a few spells would be my ideal tought for the next update.

I do agree that knowing something about the dragon before he finishes the skaven here would be a good idea to be honest . If we know it is hostile we can kinda prepare .

Even if it just agrees to not attack us and nothing else and tells us to f off zilfin since thats its mountain now and not to annoy his sleep wich seems the most likely positive result.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

I wasn't really focusing on the hammerspace aspect, but the fact that objects affected by the spell would be both present and absent, which is totally in Ulgu ballpark.

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I mean no matter what I want the colleges to invent a bag of holding.

I don't know how much stuff we've had to leave behind because we've only got so much room to hold things and remain stealthy.

 

[NeonLights]

I still don't understand why capturing an Eshin skaven sorcerer is even a subject of discussion.

It involves:
1) neutralizing its magic during containment, a magic specifically designed for infiltration and exfiltration.
2) convincing an Eshin to betray one of the most guarded secrets of his own clan, completely, utterly not the same as a disgruntled Moulder chieftain.
3) keeping for an indeterminate length of time someone that is likely as competent as an Eshin Assassin in our dungeon, in our own fucking home.
4) hoping that we manage to separate the bullshit he will say from the maybe truth and technical truth in order to have an accurate understanding of its magic system (reminder: he is a master at intrigue and lying).

This is a bad idea. As in parlaying with a dragon in the middle of a battle seems like the pinnacle of common sense in comparison. Just write off the magic portion of the Skaven dictionary or let someone who has more time or is more insane do it using the basis we already wrote. Make the magic portion of Queekish be someone else's problem or hope to find magical papers in the ruins of Yar. We have already enough shit to do without putting up with that kind of unending headache. Good enough would already be a ground-breaking achievement.

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I don't particularly care for interacting with it, but proving the existence of this urban legend sounds cool.

 

[Kornet]

I wasn't really focusing on the hammerspace aspect, but the fact that objects affected by the spell would be both present and absent, which is totally in Ulgu ballpark.

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Seems like a substance of shadow effect, and the basic spell is limited and complex as is.

But yes, it looks Ulgu allright.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

I don't particularly care for interacting with it, but proving the existence of this urban legend sounds cool.

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Ah so you want to capture rat bigfoot

 

[ninjafish]

Regarding spell creation, instead of a Ulgu-sword inspired by Shadow Knife, why not copy the capacity of our sword to disappear and reappear at will?


It would be a much more versatile spell, used for stealing items, summon weapons and we could theoretically enchant our staff with it when crafting it.

Click to shrink...

why not create a more useful spell... like a speed of light equivalent?

 

[Andres]

2) convincing an Eshin to betray one of the most guarded secrets of his own clan, completely, utterly not the same as a disgruntled Moulder chieftain.
3) keeping for an indeterminate length of time someone that is likely as competent as an Eshin Assassin in our dungeon, in our own fucking home.
4) hoping that we manage to separate the bullshit he will say from the maybe truth and technical truth in order to have an accurate understanding of its magic system (reminder: he is a master at intrigue and lying).

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I want to capture it so we can send it off to the Grey College. Get favour for nabbing something that the Colleges aren't sure even exists and doesn't add to our research pile at all.

 

[primemountain]

I would be quite happy with an eshin trying to sneak up on us while we talk to the Hysh dragon. That is one less assassin we have to worry about. Unless you think it can sneak past the dragon to stab us?

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It was more that once revealed, it might follow us after our Dragon talk, and try and ambush us when we are alone, heading back.

 

[B_omega]

Well if we're planning to learn eshin secret martial style, know that it will open a whole lot of new research tree.

Ki or chi, maybe Kundalini usage, weird and deadly martial arts, celestial weapons or weapon styles.

Would be nice if its applicable to dwarves and Mathilda is responsible for the west most branch of shaolin dwarves martial arts.

 

[LotusPocus]

why not create a more useful spell... like a speed of light equivalent?

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We don't have the traits to invent it, or the documents or objects to copy it.
I don't see Ulgu being able to replicate this Hysh spell, because smoke, shadow, uncertainty and confusion don't really translate ( for me) to super speed.
Perhaps you could provide a reasoning for how you see it working?

 

[uju32]

why not create a more useful spell... like a speed of light equivalent?

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If you can recover an Eshin sorcery text with their version, then we can talk about attempting to reverse engineer their version of Swiftscamper into something we might be able to make use of, just as they engineered their version from somewhere else.
Until then, I don't think we should bother.

I want to capture it so we can send it off to the Grey College. Get favour for nabbing something that the Colleges aren't sure even exists and doesn't add to our research pile at all.

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Attempting to capture a Dhar/Ulgu magic-user who might well be able to summon the skaven version of a Greater Demon strikes me as a remarkably foolhardy thing to do.
Even necromancers are only captured for as long as it takes to build a pyre, and we know how to stop those from casting.

No, we write-up a battle report of what we saw an Eshin Sorcerer do mid-combat and send it off.
At most, if possible we add an autopsy report.
That will satisfy the Colleges just fine.

 

[Zero Gravitas]

Attempting to capture a Dhar/Ulgu magic-user who might well be able to summon the skaven version of a Greater Demon strikes me as a remarkably foolhardy thing to do.

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Grey Seers are the only ones who know how to summon Verminlords. It might be that the Eshin might have stolen the know how but it is also likely that a Verminlord would be pissed off to be summoned by someone who isn't a Grey Seer.

 

[uju32]

Grey Seers are the only ones who know how to summon Verminlords. It might be that the Eshin might have stolen the know how but it is also likely that a Verminlord would be pissed off to be summoned by someone who isn't a Grey Seer.

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Pissed is kinda the point.
A sorcerer in captivity and facing literally certain death is at the end of their tether. And Skaven understand spite very well.
Joe the Eshin Sorcerer will happily risk a Verminlord into the middle of a secure area in the Colleges of Magic instead of sitting and waiting to die.

And yeah, I will bet on Joe the Eshin Sorcerer having stolen knowledge of how to call Verminlords from the Grey Seers if he's the one with Intrigue 25.
Assuming the Grey Seers didn't give it to him; Eshin generally work for the Council of 13 after all.

 

[Zero Gravitas]

Pissed is kinda the point.
A sorcerer in captivity and facing literally certain death is at the end of their tether. And Skaven understand spite very well.
Joe the Eshin Sorcerer will happily risk a Verminlord into the middle of a secure area in the Colleges of Magic instead of sitting and waiting to die.

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Pretty sure the secure areas in the Colleges of Magic are considered secure specifically because they can mess up with attempts to summon. Besides the Colleges can afford to constantly keep a Magister on hand to dispel if the Sorcerer tries to cast something - Eshin might be stealthy but they're not summon a Verminlord before the eyes of an alert mage stealthy.

 

[Erandil]

Wow, one of the biggest staff posts I've ever seen. Can't help but wonder why this thread has the most arguments I've ever seen.

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Eh, this quest is still pretty harmless considering its size and level of activity. It probably doesn't fare that badly if compared with other large quests like To Boldly Go during their heydays and certainly has less heated and infracted debates like more "politicised" quests like Paths of Civilizations tend to create.

 

[Lightwhispers]

If I had to be Skaven, I'd rather be Qrech right now.

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FTFY

We know algrad does something with dimensions so it can't be completely out of Ulgu's tool box. He uses it for his mail for goodness sake! We could totally do a spell that mimics the rune of the unknown.

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From how the Colleges are concealed in Altdorf, it kinda seems like "messing with dimensions" is something that a number of winds can do, from varying angles, but probably some can't do it as a spell, only as enchantment/static effects which are too big/fiddly/difficult to apply in field conditions.

That said, Ulgu does seem to be good at the sort of concepts that would apply.

 

[uju32]

Pretty sure the secure areas in the Colleges of Magic are considered secure specifically because they can mess up with attempts to summon. Besides the Colleges can afford to constantly keep a Magister on hand to dispel if the Sorcerer tries to cast something - Eshin might be stealthy but they're not summon a Verminlord before the eyes of an alert mage stealthy.

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-I am in no way sure of that.

Mathilde was hunted by a fairly minor demon/warp entity for several years while she was an Apprentice at the Colleges without anyone else noticing. Not even her Magister master. A Verminlord is a Greater Demon of a Chaos God. There is a distinct chasm in power and capability between the two. And I will note that Van Horstmann literally learned to summon Demons in the Light College.

-And not even the Colleges can afford to keep a Magister on-hand to watch one prisoner.
Too much work to do.

 

[Quest]

Hey, @Quest, I gathered the quotes for your threadmark, if you'd like them.

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Thanks! Added.

 

[Zero Gravitas]

Mathilde was hunted by a fairly minor demon/warp entity for several years while she was an Apprentice at the Colleges without anyone else noticing. Not even her Magister master. A Verminlord is a Greater Demon of a Chaos God. There is a distinct chasm in power and capability between the two. And I will note that Van Horstmann literally learned to summon Demons in the Light College.

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Van Horstmann wasn't a prisoner though.

It is one thing to keep watch over a prisoner and an entirely different thing to monitor every member of the colleges - mainly because you can have an apprentice hit a prisoner with a large cudgel in case of attempted summoning but that's obviously not viable when considering wizards who inherently have to live an active life and don't particularly want being spied upon.