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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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look the dragon is defeatable, Skyre was broken into a multiple faction civil war and had experienced quite a bit of losses due to chemical explosions.

if they had been at top shape when they pissed off the dragon they might very well have killed it.

We negotiate with this thing as an equal, and we don't let it boss us around.
 
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Night said:
The Imperial Dragon lives with this arrangement, somehow. As long as it keeps growing, or it only shrinks when everybody's fighting for their lives including the Dragon, it might work out.
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Is this the actual agreement? Having read that section again it seems like more of the Imperial Treasury was spent to keep it docile. But maybe there's information I don't know.
 
Neshuakadal said:
I don't think it does. I think immense amounts of money go to that dragon in order to keep it happy but I don't think the dragon let's anyone take any amount of it away.

I would be happy to be wrong but from the what I remember when the dragon was introduced in quest it made it sound as if that gold was lost to the dragon.
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Well see
 
Can we talk to the dragon to formalize its residency? Matilda just needs a few details to fill out the paperwork and keep someone from stumbling into somewhere they should not be. or if he.shewould prefer he/she could fill out the paperwork themself. :p
 
Ericwinter said:
Except, again, this. is. unnecessary. Convincing it not to cause trouble has nothing to do with the payment or protection. The dragon wants to live on top of Zilfin, it can live on top of Zilfin, as long as it stays above the territory the dwarves actually care about. It's already doing that, so anything else is just overkill. Hell, it didn't even care about the Skaven until they shoved poisonous gases in its face. Why the fuck would it expect us to swear to be its hoard guardians? If the dragon decides it doesn't want to let dwarves anywhere near it, then we would be at war regardless, and none of this matters.
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The dragon considers Zilfin its mountain. Possibly not all of Zilfin! It's possible it knew about the skaven below it and was OK with that before they gassed it. But, regardless, Zilfin is de facto the dragon's home. Belegar also considers that place part of his home; the conquest of K8P will not be complete until he is King of Karag Zilfin. There is some conflict here.

Like, ideally it would be nice to exchange gifts and become allies, that would be awesome, but @Redshirt Army's original proposal was "we will pay you X money and provide Y service in exchange for you acknowledging the dwarves as the owners of Zilfin and letting them live in the parts you aren't directly using." For a disputed-ownership real-estate case, this seems pretty legit; two parties have a claim on a piece of property, the one that currently possesses the property in question accepts compensation and a long-term lease to grant title to the other.

The specific of "guarding its hoard" is not a key part of the thing. But people were getting up in arms about how this is a tribute payment or that it's a state of vassalage. It's not; it's an out-of-court settlement, because "court" in this case is "the battlefield."
 
BoneyM said:
"I'm getting really nervous about all these ??? rolls, guys. What sort of pirates are there out here? Is this a Dark Elf outpost?"
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Sure, Mathilde reclaimed Karak Eight Peaks, but Belegar defeated Luthor Harkon in single combat, nipping in the bud his plot to destroy Barak Varr, kill and raise the entire population of the Border Princes, and run rampan up and down the coast; saving both the Old World and the New World from the predations of the Vampire Coast.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Funny as this is, Confound Foe doesn't require the capability of sending information back in time: it's simply a roll to see if it was an illusion all along, or if you really took that damage.

Mechanically happens after you take the hits, but IC, a quick, seamless illusion of you fighting and dying while you are actually sneaking away/around sounds merely fiendishly complex.
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The spell for that is Cloak Activity, and it's only Moderately Complicated. Even better you can have an illusion of yourself doing whatever the heck you want, including but by no means limited to fighting and dying, while you are actually sneaking away/around. It's great.

It's really a pity that we don't know it fully yet because not only is it an excellent spell in general it's easy to see how it forms a solid logical basis for a lot of more advanced spell ideas or item enchantments. For one thing, "Mathilde is actually not where she appeared to be, and thus was not hit" is a pretty great way to flavor a ward save. It's also one of the only spells in the default spellbook that I could see Mathilde independently re-developing simply because it's so incredibly fitting for her Warrior of Fog trait.
 
Glau said:
Most basic immediate thing we need out of the dragon is for it to not regard the firing of the doom tower as a hostile act. Warning it and making sure it is understood that only the orcs are intended victims so it doesn't counter spell or attack is goal #1 of taking to the dragon.
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Then we get to find out if the Hysh/Ulgu rivalry is universal or just a human thing. Yay!
 
das_slash said:
I would be so glad if the dragon turns out to be a huge nerd.
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Yeah. Hopefully, it's secretly a bookwyrm, and we can put access to Mathilde's library as part of the treaty negotiations, just after "so, well done kicking the Skaven out of the Karak, everyone", and near "you get a front-row back-row whatever seat you want for watching us do horrible things to the incoming orcish horde."
 
Lightwhispers said:
Yeah. Hopefully, it's secretly a bookwyrm, and we can put access to Mathilde's library as part of the treaty negotiations, just after "so, well done kicking the Skaven out of the Karak, everyone", and near "you get a front-row back-row whatever seat you want for watching us do horrible things to the incoming orcish horde."
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Our reading nook just got really uncouth.
 
Lightwhispers said:
Yeah. Hopefully, it's secretly a bookwyrm, and we can put access to Mathilde's library as part of the treaty negotiations, just after "so, well done kicking the Skaven out of the Karak, everyone", and near "you get a front-row back-row whatever seat you want for watching us do horrible things to the incoming orcish horde."
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Hopefully it's secretly a bookwyrm so that we can get access to its library and negotiate to make copies so that we get a delicious +5 from our copies of its Extensive and Esoteric Draconic Romances reference books.
 
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At this point we're going to need Wilhelmina here to explain the concept of Compound Interest to the Dragon! :lol:
 
picklepikkl said:
The dragon considers Zilfin its mountain. Possibly not all of Zilfin! It's possible it knew about the skaven below it and was OK with that before they gassed it. But, regardless, Zilfin is de facto the dragon's home. Belegar also considers that place part of his home; the conquest of K8P will not be complete until he is King of Karag Zilfin. There is some conflict here.

Like, ideally it would be nice to exchange gifts and become allies, that would be awesome, but @Redshirt Army's original proposal was "we will pay you X money and provide Y service in exchange for you acknowledging the dwarves as the owners of Zilfin and letting them live in the parts you aren't directly using." For a disputed-ownership real-estate case, this seems pretty legit; two parties have a claim on a piece of property, the one that currently possesses the property in question accepts compensation and a long-term lease to grant title to the other.

The specific of "guarding its hoard" is not a key part of the thing. But people were getting up in arms about how this is a tribute payment or that it's a state of vassalage. It's not; it's an out-of-court settlement, because "court" in this case is "the battlefield."
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Two things: One, this is not a civil case, in a civilized world, where law rules all. Semantics, perhaps, but still relevant so try to keep the cultural connotations of how either side would view it. And two, you're assuming the dragon wants compensation. Yeah, paying the dragon would be a fair price, but it doesn't have to be a necessary one. If we approach it with a fair offer--the dragon stays in its part of the mountain, we stay in ours, and everybody is happy--and it proceeds to demand we start paying it/providing services or it will attack us? That's not a reasonable being. that's something which will turn on you at the drop of a hat and which you should not be negotiating with because it considers you hostile. On the other hand, if it does not start making demands and accepts the deal, then you're're good. Starting off with an unfair deal is a horrible strategy in anything, and anything which tries to turn a fair deal into a bad one shouldn't be dealt with at all.
 
Guys. I uh. I just realized something.

We never made a 'Dragon' crystal for our doomfortress superweapon, did we?

So if the dragon shows up above ground, the only way to use the Eye on it is if Mathilde's there.

Granted, I'm not sure if the Eye would injure it much or not, but something to keep in mind.
 
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TaliesinSkye said:
Guys. I uh. I just realized something.

We never made a 'Dragon' crystal for our doomfortress superweapon, did we?

So if the dragon shows up above ground, the only way to use the Eye on it is if Mathilde's there.

Granted, I'm not sure if the Eye would injure it much or not, but something to keep in mind.
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... Was this not obvious? I don't mean that insultingly, I thought that was clear as soon as we built the thing.
 
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