I'm not 100% sure about this action in general, as giving him enough sources of stimulation (Even if he knows we could take them away just as easily) that he can maintain sanity without us seems like it might buttress his mentality in undesirable ways. That's probably only happening on a very low roll though admittedly.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I'm not 100% sure about this action in general, as giving him enough sources of stimulation (Even if he knows we could take them away just as easily) that he can maintain sanity without us seems like it might buttress his mentality in undesirable ways. That's probably only happening on a very low roll though admittedly.
It would synergize well with the "convince him we're his ticket to a comfortable life away from the Under-Empire" gambit, which I think would work well for wearing away at his overall loyalty to Moulder and the Skaven as a whole.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Going by the new clarifications of Councilor responsibilities in the collection of important info threadmark it isn't half assing the job, its just not spending every possible effort on it when a lot of the arguments for it in the first place which helped it win were so we could set aside some time for our own stuff.
Turning around and then going "lets full court press on it" after it won on the back of "grab it so we have some time to other stuff" is weird.
E: Even if you precisely didn't argue for either of the above, its still weird to see in general.
- Location
- Russia
Turns out, I'm a nerd. Thus I went on a dive into books to understand Dragon situation:
1) HE book in 8e gives them Sun/Moon/Star Dragons (all with fire breath)
2) Empire book gives them Imperial Dragons (also with fire breath)
3) Storm of Chaos divides Dragons into 4 age categories and several color ones. Age categories are Young Dragon/Dragon/Great Dragon/Emperor Dragon. Color determines breath type.
Stats map like this:
Sun=Young Dragon
Moon=Imperial=Dragon
Star=Great Dragon
Emperor doesn't have analogues in the normal armybooks.
Now, to the Asarnil. I heard claims that he rides Star Dragon, but the book where he is statted (Dog of Wars, latest edition is 5th) says that Deathfang is a Great Green Dragon (which means that Ulthuan does actually have dragons of different colors).
Deathfang's stats aren't those of a Great Dragon from SoC, but he is from 5E.
When I opened 5E Rulebook, I found there Dragons, Great Dragons and Emperor Dragons and Deathfang's stats are nearly identical to Great Dragon from here.
That seems like conclusive evidence that difference in stats is just due to edition gap and Deathfang is Great/Star Green Dragon.
I didn't actually see that until you pointed it out - thanks.
Still, I do want to get Queekish (written and spoken) done within 3 turns at most due to Belegar's desire to solve urgent Skaven problems with it, which I suspect will require considerably more effort than 1 personal action per turn plus Max translation and mail-raiding.
E: Also, I didn't make any arguments for Queekish giving us time to set aside. On the contrary, I assumed the importance of the knowledge meant the thread would be willing to focus on it. Perhaps I was mistaken.
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DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
I'm all for gambler thematics. I even argued that if we built a temple, it should be to the Gambler instead of any of the others, a few hundred/thousand/whatever pages back.
But you know, when Ranald wins a gamble, he doubles down. When Mathilde won this gamble her winnings were in the form of a divine artifact, and if she wants to double down, to do the Ranaldite thing, she should be poking at that thing and trying to turn one artifact's worth of power into an entire magical discipline's worth of divine power. It's the gambling move, to bet on her ambition and cunning and magical prowess and roll the dice that there's something incredible just out of reach if she spends time and energy striving for it instead of traveling the well-trod paths of Collegiate Grey Magic with that time and energy, which she knows could teach her really cool stuff.
Building a temple is mostly a victory lap showing off that she won big and how cool that is. And, you know, that's great too, but it's not really the next step on her personal religious journey. Divine magic is.
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BungieONI
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Not really to me, because at this point we go from one Gamble to an even harder Gamble, or really a continuation of the same Gamble that is harder and stacking the deck is something we've learned well from Ranald so far. This is another piece of why I see the Temple as important to build before we go poking him.
Also just in general the read I'm getting from the thread is that it is becoming weary and wary of trying to focus all our efforts on something unless its killing a bastard and have realized that to get things done we want done we have to carefully manage our Projects so that they align with what we want to do.
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TimEd
Meteor maker
No! Being Gandalf will mean that we eventually stop being a Grey and 'upgrade' into a White Wizard!
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
Okay just to put an effortpost explaining my plan The Great Deception and it's reasoning
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact: specify which. (Chaos Dwarf anatomy book)
Let Max finish doing this so we get some more details about how Queekish works even if everything about Qrech himself fails.
-[ ] JOHANN: Join him on raids with the aim of finding written correspondence and gasmasks Skryre
Let's get some non-mors writing as well as some gasmasks since people seem to want them.
-[ ] DUCK: Panoramia's about ready to test for Magister, but she doesn't have a lot of free time to prepare. Work with her to help make the most of every spare minute.
Technically this doesn't help with our job but I feel this is time limited and I feel we can help Panoramia finally become a Magister even if she seems super busy helping the farming situation.
-[ ] Found an internal investigation division, to investigate possible misconduct.
Not really sure about this just that we want this done sooner rather than later but I'm willing to swap this out for another EIC action if people want to
-[ ] Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere. (NEW-ish)
Let's get to know our prisoner better in preparation for trying to get him to teach us Queekish next turn.
-[ ] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for Qrech to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency. (will require acquiring said documents somehow)
Continue grinding away at having him unintentionally teach us the written language so that Matty can use it as another tool to get him to teach us since we can rightfully point out that we can just look at what he translated to get a decent idea.
-[ ] Convince Qrech that the Underempire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
-[ ] Convince Qrech you're ambitious and loyal only to yourself, and you're willing to repay his cooperation in ways that will benefit the Under-Empire.
Two more deceiver backed lies to really get Qrech to believe us and completely unaware of the magnitude of his crimes
-[ ] You have set up a Shrine to Ranald. Expand it into a Temple to the Gambler - a gambling hall with clean cards, guaranteed unloaded dice, fresh sawdust in the fighting ring, and a lottery every Festag. Costs 100gc.
People want it and so do I. Let's finally thank our boy Ranald for tipping the odds in our favor all the time. Would be better on a turn where we actually used the Gambler bonus but we can always use it next turn to really guarantee we finish our job.
-[ ] Your dungeon was built with a reasonable amount of paranoia. Apply an unreasonable amount of paranoia.
I'm just paranoid in general since if Qrech suddenly dies or escapes our job is basically fucked even if we had gotten a decent amount of use from him.
-[ ] Travel to Ubersreik and Mousillon to try to claim any captured Skaven writings.
More writings and from farther away. Meaning they should hopefully give us a lot of new words and Qrech won't even care since the papers are likely from Traitor clans and he hates them
-[ ] The Deceiver:
What the plan is named for and made to take advantage of.
-[] Serenity: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist.
Might as well do this since it's about to Fade and we're unlikely to get new inspiration for this while greenskin magic literally grows on shrooms. Also I don't want to do the Queekish paper let since it might tip our hands to Eshin when waiting one turn more might get us enough material to suddenly publish an entire book on the language to everyone's suprise
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact: specify which. (Chaos Dwarf anatomy book)
Let Max finish doing this so we get some more details about how Queekish works even if everything about Qrech himself fails.
-[ ] JOHANN: Join him on raids with the aim of finding written correspondence and gasmasks Skryre
Let's get some non-mors writing as well as some gasmasks since people seem to want them.
-[ ] DUCK: Panoramia's about ready to test for Magister, but she doesn't have a lot of free time to prepare. Work with her to help make the most of every spare minute.
Technically this doesn't help with our job but I feel this is time limited and I feel we can help Panoramia finally become a Magister even if she seems super busy helping the farming situation.
-[ ] Found an internal investigation division, to investigate possible misconduct.
Not really sure about this just that we want this done sooner rather than later but I'm willing to swap this out for another EIC action if people want to
-[ ] Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere. (NEW-ish)
Let's get to know our prisoner better in preparation for trying to get him to teach us Queekish next turn.
-[ ] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for Qrech to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency. (will require acquiring said documents somehow)
Continue grinding away at having him unintentionally teach us the written language so that Matty can use it as another tool to get him to teach us since we can rightfully point out that we can just look at what he translated to get a decent idea.
-[ ] Convince Qrech that the Underempire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
-[ ] Convince Qrech you're ambitious and loyal only to yourself, and you're willing to repay his cooperation in ways that will benefit the Under-Empire.
Two more deceiver backed lies to really get Qrech to believe us and completely unaware of the magnitude of his crimes
-[ ] You have set up a Shrine to Ranald. Expand it into a Temple to the Gambler - a gambling hall with clean cards, guaranteed unloaded dice, fresh sawdust in the fighting ring, and a lottery every Festag. Costs 100gc.
People want it and so do I. Let's finally thank our boy Ranald for tipping the odds in our favor all the time. Would be better on a turn where we actually used the Gambler bonus but we can always use it next turn to really guarantee we finish our job.
-[ ] Your dungeon was built with a reasonable amount of paranoia. Apply an unreasonable amount of paranoia.
I'm just paranoid in general since if Qrech suddenly dies or escapes our job is basically fucked even if we had gotten a decent amount of use from him.
-[ ] Travel to Ubersreik and Mousillon to try to claim any captured Skaven writings.
More writings and from farther away. Meaning they should hopefully give us a lot of new words and Qrech won't even care since the papers are likely from Traitor clans and he hates them
-[ ] The Deceiver:
What the plan is named for and made to take advantage of.
-[] Serenity: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist.
Might as well do this since it's about to Fade and we're unlikely to get new inspiration for this while greenskin magic literally grows on shrooms. Also I don't want to do the Queekish paper let since it might tip our hands to Eshin when waiting one turn more might get us enough material to suddenly publish an entire book on the language to everyone's suprise
- Location
- Australia
Building a temple is absolutely a step on her spiritual journey. It's building a temple for Pete's sake. Possibly consecrating it too.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Well if we figure out how to do Ranald magic or multi wind magic, there's a decent chance that's exactly what'll happen.
I feel we really should go to Altdorf and to the Waagh and Peace lectures. They're critical for Mathilde's reputation as a truly exceptional researcher and it would be a great occasion to network within the Colleges.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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I think this one in particular is important to do because of these reasons:
-Handlers is more trustworthy if we're sure that the organization hosting them is clean, and has tools to remain clean.
-Handlers can use that internal investigation tool as a tool in counter espionage to defend the EIC.
-The other options
-Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill). Some people want it, but it isn't particularly urgent.
[ ] Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order. Accounting and making sure minimal funny business with money is going on, a way to maintain best profitability. Not that urgent.
[ ] Reach out to Julia to find out if she's interested in being poached or passing on information. She's doing good work for Rosie, I don't see reason to poke her much.
[ ] Reach out to Roswita, and have the EIC start passing on tips about any tax evasion or other naughtiness by the EIC's rivals. This has some use, and is a useful tool for Handlers but outside of that is not very high priority.
[ ] Start building a paramilitary river navy to ensure the coming trade explosion doesn't lead to a similar explosion in riverine banditry. (NEW) Someone mentioned waiting till the second gunnery school is set up so we can supply and build these monitors ourselves entirely and they had an excellent point.
- Location
- Utrecht
Boney confirmed that Deathfang is a star dragon, which is the emperor of the species of dragon that is native to ulthuan
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
We've already consecrated a shrine to Ranald. I think that before we build a proper temple, we need to understand how divine power works especially Ranald's, understand it's quirks and tendencies and then build a temple. I want Ranald's temple to be the divine equivalent to the Room of Dusk and Dawn. Working blindly means we do a sub-standard job.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Sure, its also not particularly relevant to our job, Karak Eight Peak's strategic situation which is complicated at the moment, and not helpful for any of our proposed Projects so far.
The paper itself also covers being readable and digestable, so there's a much more limited scope this lecutre would be applied to.
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
Every other proposal that we made for actions to Belegar has less significant implications than the Queekish research project. They were all "let me try to solve this local problem" and Queekish is "let me change the rules of the entire millennia-long war against the skaven". It's a world-shaking line of research and development.
This project deserves as much focus as Mathilde can possibly devote to it.
If Mathilde were planning to run a Ranaldite cult, or serve as a priestess in the temple, or something like that, I'd agree with you. But she's not; it will not get her time or attention after its construction and she'll call in another priest to work there. Basically donating a temple to Ranald is nice, but her spiritual journey is based on a personal relationship with her divine patron and repeatedly engaging in amusing or impressive devotional actions, not the institutions of Ranald's formalized cult. And that's not going to change.
Now, if she were to research divine magic and then build Ranald a magical temple as a divine architecture-enchantment project in line with her towers, that would be a step forward spiritually for her. It's a statement of ambition and audacity to even try, and in the event of success a great achievement based equally in her religious convictions and personal knowledge and competencies, which is how her spirituality works when it's at its best. I'll certainly support that! But building it now just doesn't have any punch.
BungieONI
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Yeah, well this thread has a habit of not being exactly consistent which is a major issue in why we even have things sitting on the shelf and turning around and saying to the voters who voted for the plan that didn't include AV for the reason of it'd allow space for AV side actions is not going to win support from a lot of people.
Its like, "well okay why'd this plan win then when it doesn't do half of what some folks wanted?". It further perpetuates the problem we have with letting stuff sit. Willful choice to step away from a possibility to try and correct it and stay course when nothing has actually changed between last update and this update is strange.
Well besides the thread freaking out about it after that roll of boxcars.
- Location
- Brazil
It's 4:15 a.m. here, but before I go to sleep, please folks, help Johann with the ratling gun. He's been stuck on that for years I think.
Put the Duckling action on it, if Max can't be spared.
It's literally figuring out how to make heavy machineguns. The sooner we have this up, the better it is. Those are insanely freaking good.
Also, wow, that Boon of Hysh item is an enormous let down. No wonder it hasn't gotten more than a passing comment in a few pages.
Put the Duckling action on it, if Max can't be spared.
It's literally figuring out how to make heavy machineguns. The sooner we have this up, the better it is. Those are insanely freaking good.
Also, wow, that Boon of Hysh item is an enormous let down. No wonder it hasn't gotten more than a passing comment in a few pages.
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- Location
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I like this! And I've suggested something similar. Thinking of a bit of a twist though-
Having the dragon formally designate the dwarves as his heirs and inheritors as well, so in principle all the wealth could be assured to find it's way back into dwarf hands. In exchange, the dwarves acknowledge that what he has is his, as long as he is alive. Everyone gets pride satisfied.
Most likely would be the merc treasure hunters who ran away from the expedition before Karag Nar. Maybe would have learned some queekish by now?
I really don't see this as helping us with anything, since we are building a lexicon already. I kinda feel like the chaos dwarf anatomy isn't going anywhere, this'll be much easier after we get written queekish. I don't think one gold journeyman for one year is going to crack the language if it's resisted translation for all the years up till now. Let him do something more useful: triage some artifacts, for example.
A lecture circuit would be fun, I like the idea of publishing the other two orc magic papers first though, and having a broader range to speak about when we do it.
I'd rather use Mathilde's actions on Skaven raiding herself while using the Night Prowler, while throwing Johan and Duckling actions on other stuff. She is the only one who can sneak deeply into Skaven territory in relative safety to try and get a wider variety of Skaven correspondence.
It's not like the Skaven will just sit there doing nothing, they have their own plots and schemes and the relative descalation of the war is worrying.
(Worst case scenario is that the Grey Seers called for a conclave)
It's not like the Skaven will just sit there doing nothing, they have their own plots and schemes and the relative descalation of the war is worrying.
(Worst case scenario is that the Grey Seers called for a conclave)