- Location
- Mexico
Sure, Mathilde is better at it, but AP efficiency says we should send Johann, its what he is here for anyway.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Well, not quite permanently, given that she only rented it for 99 years.
... What, you thought I was willing to let our ducklings die just because I don't want to marry them? The second any of them perishes for whatever reason I will be right back on the "bring them back no matter the cost" train, as expected.
... I suppose I could support that pairing AS LONG AS we succesfully pair up Anton with Asarnil first.
I have my
I confess, very unsportingly I'm less interested in Cunning Plan Of The Day To Acquire Ultimate [something] Power than I am in when we gain our next title by acclamation...
The Wizard of Sunrise Mountain.
(The Wizard of Hell-Firetop Mountain (Tower) remains a bit too on the nose.)
Power and renown usually come together.
NeonLights
Formerly Reliable_2IC
- Location
- In shambles
Thank you for the answer.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
But would that be less/more personal reputation for one or the other, or would it just also boost K8P's reputation for help supporting this project if it was a job? Because I think the former what most people are concerned about, even if I, personally, think the latter is more likely.
More personal reputation for a solo effort.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
It'll obligate all plan makers to dedicate at least two effective AP to it per turn; more, in truth, because it's something we actually want to directly do. It'll also subsidize gold and favor costs immensely, and get us access to institutional resources even we can't call on casually; Kragg and Thorek-and-requisite-apprentice-swarm don't collaborate, but when Belegar asks them to they'll do unrelated work on the same project, which is about as close as it gets.
There's something to be said about developing the ultimate revolutionary secrets in our basement instead of having state funding. However, what we lose in forgoing the implication that we just cook up stuff like this in our basement we gain in not needing to cook this stuff up in our basement. We can't even consistently throw the scraps of our AP at it to make progress, given that Ratman needs them or he'll go insane.
Imagine a mad scientist building a giant robot in their basement, versus a slightly better groomed scientist with eccentricities getting to head a government-funded engineering project to institutionalize giant robot construction.
One is terrifying because they just popped up with a previously believed to be mechanically impossible construct out of nowhere, but while the other is less utterly baffling they're still highly respected, in part because everybody could see how they did it, which would make them the father or mother of the field. Academic discovery idolizes the individuals, but it's built off of the shoulders of collaborating giants.
And what the scientist with the combed beard loses in their ability to baffle people, they gain in more and better constructed giant robots.
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- Location
- Aotearoa
Perhaps, but relentless scheming for unwieldy means to acquire power is very gauche and insecure.
Title-Hunting on the other hand- that's a much higher class of insecure gaucheness.
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They also have (presumably steam-powered) trains in this quest:
If the Dwarves don't already have steam tanks, then the Dwarves don't think steam tanks are viable for their uses.
I thought it was pretty heavily implied that when Gotri rolled a nat 100 to learn reikspeil, he also got an burning passio interest in Steam tanks, and ever since has been tinkering around with the possibility of making something similar to them in his spare time; not intellectual property theft, but taking inspiration from it and working backwards.
That's what Adela trading Morgrim's seven devices for being a steam dispensing robot was about.
Edit: Steam tanks would be amazing for dwarf deployment, especially if you could size them to fit in dwarf tunnels so you could just completely plug up an avenue of attack with a big ol' cannon-steam lance-20 ton battering ram; even if not, then they could do some real good in reducing dwarf attrittion.
I thought the reason Dwarfs didn't have steam tanks was that they're unable to build them (like, if they got one to look at, disassemble, and reverse engineer they probably could, but they don't and wouldn't ask for one)
That's what Adela trading Morgrim's seven devices for being a steam dispensing robot was about.
Edit: Steam tanks would be amazing for dwarf deployment, especially if you could size them to fit in dwarf tunnels so you could just completely plug up an avenue of attack with a big ol' cannon-steam lance-20 ton battering ram; even if not, then they could do some real good in reducing dwarf attrittion.
I thought the reason Dwarfs didn't have steam tanks was that they're unable to build them (like, if they got one to look at, disassemble, and reverse engineer they probably could, but they don't and wouldn't ask for one)
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SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Yea pretty much. With out being obligated via Belegar induced task AP we're never going to find the time to do it.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Gotri comes from Zhufbar, he could always speak Reikspiel.
You're thinking of Kazrik, the Diplomat, who acquired human-phile.
- Location
- Earth
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
That's my take on it to; they don't have steam tanks because they don't want them. And seeing as they do make use of inventions like gyrocopters, an even riskier and less orthodox vehicle, that lack of desire isn't because of traditionalism or conservatism, which only really leaves (a lack of) practicality as the reason.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Huh. I mean, I' m not gonna gainsay you, since you're GM and all, but would this still be the case if we did the whole 'spending favor to get Runelord expertise'? Because as far as I can tell the actions taken would still be the same. Or would it come off as different because Belegar would be the one spending favour, and those are considered part of the contribution? Sorry if it's bothersome to ask, I'm just trying to get a better idea of the general mindset for this, since it all seems very haphazard so far.
Eh, it's my opinion that if people really want to get something done, they'll get it done, regardless of a fictional character guilt-tripping them. Given pretty much everybody seems to agree that they want this done now, and just don't agree on how to do that, I figured it wouldn't matter. But hey, far be it from me to remind people how to be sensible. On the other hand, you are right about the resources Belegar could put on the task, which I already mentioned as the real reason somebody would be arguing for making it a sanctioned Project. It's also why I personally supported that vote.
- Location
- Norway
Seven? The threadmark says "Six Machines of Morgrim".
If the Dwarves can make steam trains (and gyrocopters), they can make steam tanks. If the Dwarves aren't making steam tanks, it's because steam tanks aren't useful for Dwarves.
Also, for the record, I for one want to do AV as a sanctioned project. I just don't want to do it as a sanctioned project right now, with an existing mandatory AP sink and multiple imminent crises for the Karak. (And I would like to do the safety research first, which should be entirely doable once Qrech isn't eating our action budget.)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We couldn't make steam tanks for decades after creating working steam trains IRL.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
We literally have four ap we can spend a turn. Two of those are always ear marked towards the Task Belegar sets us as a minimum whilst we have Qrech in the prison and we need to keep him occupied for him to be valuable we have to dedicate another 2 ap. One on him directly another on acquiring materials. That leaves us 0 AP for other tasks unless Queekish is the task.
I'm not sure that really follows; logically, if you can make gyrobombers and steam trains, tanks shouldn't be impossible, but Leonardo "definitely not Da-vinci" was noted for being centuries ahead, tech wise, so maybe the dwarfs simply don't have the miniaturization technology to make a powerful enough engine for the tank small enough to fit in it.
Spending favour to get others to contribute means they're not expecting or getting any of the credit for doing so, which is why you have to spend favour in the first place. If it's your official task instead, then any costs in money, supplies or favours are covered by your employer, and you're being paid for your time as well. 'Magister Weber discovered X' versus 'in a project lead by Court Wizard Weber, K8P has discovered X'.
- Location
- Vancouver
That was for Tale of Metal not Breach the Unknown which neatly sidesteps the issue as it doesn't reveal how to make.
Though if we move from the pretense of having him translate written Queekish to having him teach us spoken Queekish it will no longer be necessary to gather materials. Or if we move from the pretense of having him translate written Queekish to "you're going to teach us written Queekish" then it will also be unnecessary to gather materials.
Easing him in was one thing, but at a certain point it may be necessary to make a power play. If Qrech gets all, "But this hurts Skaven as a race and my clan" it might be time to reply with "So what?".
Skaven are characterized by their treachery and lack of loyalty, and I'm somewhat amazed by how much he's needed the 'traitor clan' justification so far.
You may say that's a risk and its true, but let's not pretend that having to constantly raid the Skaven isn't a problem on its own. Each time we do one of those raid actions it runs the risk of a series of poor rolls either putting us in harm's way or bringing skaven focus and military action on K8P. The worst risk of strong-arming Qrech is that he stops cooperating. The worst risk of the raids is that we trigger an attack on the whole karak.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
That's not strictly true. Here's the most up-to-date Word of Boney:
We need to devote one personal AP per turn unless we are willing to risk disapproval. The two-at-a-minimum AP for the task counts AP we spend managing wizards to work on our task.
So let's say Belegar says "go investigate Karag Mhonar, I read Scary Stories To Tell In The Dark as a beardling and it spooked the shit out of me." We could do something like this:
Max: Tethered goat experiment
Johann: Autopsy the bodies
M1: Scout KM personally, using Windsight to look for weird magical bullshit
M2: Qrech action
M3: AV investigation
M4: Temple to Ranald
That's one personal direct action on the assigned task, two actions (1 + .5 + .5) on the assigned task, and four actions (3 + .5 + .5) on things related to our position, and we haven't even spent the Duckling action.
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chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Not 'How to Speak Queek'? A lost opportunity.Howto Squeek: Skaven for Beginners
It's the same general issue, though; the problem isn't in what it does specifically, it's in the Dwarves getting wind of Humans being able to just pull secrets out of stuff at will.
It's not about Belegar guilt tripping us, so much as it's about doing our job; the thread is obsessed with doing our duty (in a good way), and it'll always come before personal goals, and then we have to stick one or two of our hundred nice-to-haves into the cracks if we want to fit them in.
Plan votes are basically a giant exercise in 'how do a hundred people decide on one way to get things done', so when the plans are being built with AV as the focus that means that it'll be 'a hundred people deciding on one way to get AV done', as opposed to the current situation of it being put by the wayside in favor of everybody's pet AP expenditure; spell research, skill lessons, Queekish, even temple building are talked about before AV is.
Mathilde went an actual decade and only managed to put in a single month's worth of work into it. The current situation just isn't working.
The unfortunate trajectory of the matter, which needless to say I don't find satisfying either, is that it's not really that we can choose one or the other of these; based on previous trends, Magister Weber won't discover X. Court Wizard Weber looks like she has much better odds.
Like, if we can dedicate job-levels of AP to it every turn, I'd take back my words. I want to get it done, and I'd love to not share credit for it. But we'd need serious plan-creating dedication to it, the sort that means we sacrifice other opportunities to get the juice done, and the only way to naturally channel that sort of thing is to set up a series of in-universe events that turns the plans that way. And the only in-universe event we can set up like that is our boss telling us to do this stuff.
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