Missed it, fixed.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- USA
I can't speak for anyone else, but I will resist proposing AV to Belegar until we finish the below action. If the living things AV investigation is complete, I'm 100% on board with giving Belegar the option to make it a main task. I believe heavily in the 'do no harm' principle of research, so I want to have a better idea of what kind of effects AV has on living beings (humans and dwarves specifically).
I'm sure someone will chime in saying that I'm absolutely wrong and here is a detailed list why AV is harmless. I will preempt that by saying that, barring WoG that long-term AV exposure is safe, I will be highly unlikely to be swayed by your reasoning.
[ ] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
I'm sure someone will chime in saying that I'm absolutely wrong and here is a detailed list why AV is harmless. I will preempt that by saying that, barring WoG that long-term AV exposure is safe, I will be highly unlikely to be swayed by your reasoning.
[ ] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
- Location
- Brazil
This is dwarves we are talking about, most big tunnels will very likely fit a tank.
We are not talking about trench or Vietnam tunnels that barely fit a crouching man here. We are talking underground grand avenues.
Putting three or four steamtanks side-by-side in the Underway and steamrolling everything in front of them sounds perfectly feasible.
We are not talking about trench or Vietnam tunnels that barely fit a crouching man here. We are talking underground grand avenues.
Putting three or four steamtanks side-by-side in the Underway and steamrolling everything in front of them sounds perfectly feasible.
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- Location
- Utrecht
Which is why my first question was about level ground. I'm picturing it in the "total war" style. Worked stone with rubble strewn around, and reasonably high ceiling
According to the Wiki, the first steam tank was built in 2050. That would make it 430 years old at this point (seems like a ridiculously long time). It's amazing the thing still works at all. Part of the exploding thing is probably down to poorly maintenance.
That being said, the flame cannon mounted on a steam tank is probably only a good idea on paper.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Something to note about the Elector Count of Wissenland, from back when the Emperor was seeing what forces could be shaken free to handle Sylvania:
This plus the whole "he'd never let Imperial Army forces into Wissenland" seems to hint relations between Konstantin and the Emperor are rather poor.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Oh the tanks are ancient. Still, the idea of being boiled alive probably is about as appealing to the Dwarves as anyone else.
Not necessarily. You'd have a limited supply of fuel, but it wouldn't make the tank anymore dangerous to its allies or crew than normal.
Probably because they skipped ahead on developing the tech before the prereqs. You needed some damned good metallurgy to make a steam boiler able to withstand the drastic temperature differences between resting state and pressurized steam state, which causes metal fatigue and other stresses.
You also needed really good fitting, precision, and valve designs to avoid backflows, or water/steam of the wrong temperature hitting the right parts, all of which are aggravated by combat damage because of how closely fitted everything can be. Not to mention how replacement parts, attachment points and welds expand differently depending on temperature and that can create deadly temporary seams venting steam(or burst, if they have too little flex instead).
Steam power was achievable long before safe steam power!
Which is how we had a merely good commander leading without experience in tunnel warfare, limited to their state army alone, with no significant magical support, into one of the hardest underground fights short of a dragon or a dwarf fortification.
Pride goes
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NeonLights
Formerly Reliable_2IC
- Location
- In shambles
Between different elevations, tunnels, damage and neglect level ground in the Underway seems like a rarity.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Radio is so goddamn OP. Like three-quarters of the fuckups of major battles throughout history could have been averted with radio. Kings and generals didn't use to lead from the front because they were high on machismo, they led from the front because it was where they could exercise tactical command without communications lag from runners.
...are humans and halflings interfertile? I didn't think any of the Warhammer species could have children together.
I SHIP IT
*extremely annoying voice* ahem, Algard is not our senpai, he is our sensei.
...which only makes it better
My thoughts on the AV is that while I, among others, support studying it in our spare time before bringing it up to Belegar, we don't have the AP due to Qrech. When he is off Mathilde's hands we will have more AP to play with. That's why I assume people support the Skaven options, so that Belegar would give Mathilde the project she was gonna do anyway and possibly shake free some more AP.
My own thoughts on the next turn plan is something like:
[] Proto plan
-[][Max] Continue translation
-[][Johan] Study the Amulet
-[][Duck] Help Johan with Ratling gun
-[][Coin] Night Prowler
-[] AP1- Infiltrate Skyre
-[] AP2- Infiltrate Eshin
-[] AP3- Qrech action
-[] AP4- Free space
The problem with infiltrating Skaven using the coin is that Take No Heed couldn't replicate the smell; but now Mathilde knows Illusion and has a nearby captive healthy Skaven and Wolf who could correct her on how Qrech smells so she can build the generic Skaven disguise.
My own thoughts on the next turn plan is something like:
[] Proto plan
-[][Max] Continue translation
-[][Johan] Study the Amulet
-[][Duck] Help Johan with Ratling gun
-[][Coin] Night Prowler
-[] AP1- Infiltrate Skyre
-[] AP2- Infiltrate Eshin
-[] AP3- Qrech action
-[] AP4- Free space
The problem with infiltrating Skaven using the coin is that Take No Heed couldn't replicate the smell; but now Mathilde knows Illusion and has a nearby captive healthy Skaven and Wolf who could correct her on how Qrech smells so she can build the generic Skaven disguise.
- Location
- Mexico
I would rather have Johann raid Skryre for the gas masks, we need one of those ASAP, his duck action should help clear his backlog and have him focus on reverse engineering the mask, the amulet can wait.
Unfortunately Max is likely stuck on the translation, otherwise I would move him to the AV, we can get a steady stream of research on it that way.
I would not choose what to do with out AP before Belegar chooses a task, but 1 Qrech is probably going to happen anyway
The answer when it comes to fertility magic is "did you throw enough magic at it?" I think?
They're both Old One design and presumably built on similar architectures.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
I think the answer to interfertility is specifically called "Jade Magister".
And what do you know, halflings have one in residence! (Well, technically not full magister yet).
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Can I just say that this whole argument over AV is a little bit ridiculous? Like, most of the different concerns for both sides don't even make sense. On the one hand, AP hell is and will always be a thing, but the project we're dedicated to doesn't really effect that. Right from the beginning we've always been perfectly fine carrying on our own pursuits on the side, which is kind of the whole point of the quest in the first place. You know, seeing what advisors do in their free time when the actual ruler doesn't pay attention? Proposing Snek juice as a plan won't give us any more or less action points to work on it, it just makes Belegar actually keep tabs on that project and judge us for how it progresses. At best he might mitigate the costs. It's still up to the actual turn-voting to settle on whether we bother studying it or not and how much. Once it's done, of course, will be a different story, because then we'll have to decide where to put that knowledge and actually commit the resources, but I don't see anybody actually objecting to helping the dwarves as long as it's actually safe.
On the other hand, however, are those people concerned about sharing 'credit.' or whatever. Now this may just be me, but why on earth would the credit change based on it being a project or not? That actions necessary for the research won't change, so even if we did end up crediting, say, Kragg or Thorek for helping figure out interactions with runes, that would have happened anyways. The College isn't really gonna care that we did this study under Belegar's orders, and if we end up handing over a way to recharge Ancestor Runes, I doubt the Dwarves would either. The rest of the Empire, even if they do hear about this for whatever reason, probably won't even know that it was as a project for Belegar. What matters is what we achieve, not why. Again, the only difference between studying AV as a personal project or studying it as a professional project is lack of oversight versus lack of funding and resources. Hell, I highly doubt the Dwarves would even try to claim some sort of monopoly over the AV supply, because whatever happens it was our creation and thus ours to do with as we wish, whether that be supporting the Karak or supporting the Empire and Colleges, or both.
So really, the only question is would you rather Belegar know what we're doing and pay for it, or he not know what we're doing and have to pay for it ourselves? Everything else can be answered after we've successfully done our research. At leat, that's how I see it.
On the other hand, however, are those people concerned about sharing 'credit.' or whatever. Now this may just be me, but why on earth would the credit change based on it being a project or not? That actions necessary for the research won't change, so even if we did end up crediting, say, Kragg or Thorek for helping figure out interactions with runes, that would have happened anyways. The College isn't really gonna care that we did this study under Belegar's orders, and if we end up handing over a way to recharge Ancestor Runes, I doubt the Dwarves would either. The rest of the Empire, even if they do hear about this for whatever reason, probably won't even know that it was as a project for Belegar. What matters is what we achieve, not why. Again, the only difference between studying AV as a personal project or studying it as a professional project is lack of oversight versus lack of funding and resources. Hell, I highly doubt the Dwarves would even try to claim some sort of monopoly over the AV supply, because whatever happens it was our creation and thus ours to do with as we wish, whether that be supporting the Karak or supporting the Empire and Colleges, or both.
So really, the only question is would you rather Belegar know what we're doing and pay for it, or he not know what we're doing and have to pay for it ourselves? Everything else can be answered after we've successfully done our research. At leat, that's how I see it.
- Location
- Mexico
It's ok, they are still cultivating her.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
i'm not sure I'd want to try screwing around with Intrafertility when it comes to Humans and Half-lings given what we know about the difference in human and halfling souls in setting. Thankfully that's not really up to us.
- Location
- Brazil
Seriously, just take a look at the steam tank: It's absurdly tough, armored all-around, can really sprint if it wants to, perfectly capable of crushing everything in front of it by simply charging ahead, holds a freaking full power cannon, which is one of the most powerful things in the battlefield and perfectly capable of one-shotting greater daemons at S10 and D6 wounds (so it's essentially getting hit by the Fellblade), has the best possible chaff-clearer in the game, a "breath weapon" that, instead of being fired once a battle, can be fired once a round, and has 360 degrees of coverage with it.
Downside: unreliable amount of steam generated, dangerous.
Dwarves not only have boilers, which by definition means they have fool-proof boilers, but Runes that emit heat means you always know exactly how much steam you will have, and the combination of both means its chance of exploding is virtually nill. And said fire runes are apprentice-tier.
It also means that you drastically increase your endurance, as you can carry more water instead of coal.
It's the perfect tunnel fighting machine. Hell, it's arguably the perfect fighting machine period.
Downside: unreliable amount of steam generated, dangerous.
Dwarves not only have boilers, which by definition means they have fool-proof boilers, but Runes that emit heat means you always know exactly how much steam you will have, and the combination of both means its chance of exploding is virtually nill. And said fire runes are apprentice-tier.
It also means that you drastically increase your endurance, as you can carry more water instead of coal.
It's the perfect tunnel fighting machine. Hell, it's arguably the perfect fighting machine period.
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Johan doesn't have a divine artifact to hide him which is why I didn't try to have Mathilde raid on the Skaven with anyone else.
(I also hope that if Mathilde is successful enough in her sneaking she can steal one of them).
NeonLights
Formerly Reliable_2IC
- Location
- In shambles
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I confess, I'm really hoping Belegar gives us Queekish as a task, since we've given *ourself* it as a task and we're devoting the time and resources to it every turn anyway.
So much this. We also don't know the Old Ones may have done specifically to prevent this. And they do have a reason to: prevent any of the more resistant races from breeding with humans and losing their natural protections against Chaos.
- Location
- Mexico
Yeah but he has been successfully raiding them for a while, leaving no survivors is a valid way of stealth.
But we don't want to poke either Skyre or Eshin too hard. And besides, it seems that Skyre isn't sending their warmachines to the front so if we want examples Mathilde needs to penetrate deeper; which would be far easier on her lonesome with the use of the coin.
There's a difference between what Magister Mathilde Weber does entirely of her own initiative and with her own resources, and what Court Wizard Mathilde Weber does as part of their employment. She'd still get credit either way, but what changes is whether it's entirely her project or it's a project tied to her employment at K8P.
- Location
- Aotearoa
I confess, very unsportingly I'm less interested in Cunning Plan Of The Day To Acquire Ultimate [something] Power than I am in when we gain our next title by acclamation...
The Wizard of Sunrise Mountain.
(The Wizard of Hell-Firetop Mountain (Tower) remains a bit too on the nose.
)