SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
There are multiple posts from people objecting on the grounds of not wanting to share credit. I'm not going to call any one out on it but they exist.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
There are multiple posts from people objecting on the grounds of not wanting to share credit. I'm not going to call any one out on it but they exist.
- Location
- Brazil
Given that we can't fit even a shred of basic research while juggling everything else, people need to realize that way lies never doing it at all.
- Location
- Earth
I am objecting to AV because it's too close to what the Chaos Dwarves are doing.
I won't bring that to Belegar. He's already stressed enough.
We either do it ourselves or if we can't find the time not at all.
It's much cooler in the spell description which refers to the function of the item rather than the stats of the user.
There is a part of me that was sad that the Grand Theogonist wasn't around for Mandred's birth so that Mathilde could rub what a shitty Sigmarite and general human being he is in his face. Possibly by performing extremely exaggerated and entirely unnecessary maintenance on Branulhune whenever he's nearby.
Mathilde: *gasp* Belegaroth! You were behind all this?!
Belegar: Yes-yes, it was I! My-my machinations lay undetected for years, for I am a master of deception!
General cultural attitudes map to medieval/renaissance views rather than ancient greek. Add to that prostitution being associated with the spread of disease and their springing up where vice is prominent.
Creating powerstones is one thing, experimenting with applying the technique to something OTHER than Ulgu probably still wants Oh Dear.
Please, its not been a major factor.
You'd have better luck actually addressing the major dispute: That why are we proposing AV usage to Belegar/Kragg when we have none of the significant handling, safety or properties testing, which should be only 1-2 free AP away if we have either Skaven handling option made our job, and the need to manage Qrech the major reason for pushing it back by adding a 2-4 AP investment per turn to get what we can out of him before the intel source expires, one way or another.
As it is, as someone voting for both, this type of argument really sours me on keeping the AV vote
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I disagree with this reasoning, firstly it has very little in common with what the chaos dwarves do except in the fact that it's daemon adjacent and secondly Belegar needs reassurance that his expedition is a net positive for the dwarven race his concern is primarily that the values he believes in run counter to this expedition even being a thing. AV as a project and a benefit to the dwarves wouldn't be a thing at all with out his expedition so this would actually go some way to alleviating his concern, as it'd be an unquestionably good thing that rune smiths have a way to fast charge their ancestor runes.
With respect it's cropped up multiple times in the thread, I didn't say that every one voting against proposing AV did it for that reason but to deny it's an undercurrent is wrong. Frankly though you do you, if you're soured and don't want to research AV that's your choice just know that realistically if it isn't a project proposed to Belegar we're pretty much never going to have the time to dedicate more than one action to it every 5 turns which is exactly the schedule we're currently running on because you're always going to be fighting other actions like the temple upgrade and needing the coin boost.
So based on the idea that you are proposing we need to wait until we've done 3 more research actions on it before proposing it we're likely a minimum of 15 turns away from doing so.
Last edited:
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
mmm if we're discussing steam engines again a reminder we have plenty of dwarf favours.
We could get Zhuffbar to reverse engineer the steam tanks.
Maybe do that as a sorry to Nuln?
We could get Zhuffbar to reverse engineer the steam tanks.
Maybe do that as a sorry to Nuln?
- Location
- Earth
This is what BoneyM said in regards to what Kragg will think of AV.
As can easily be read, this is a tricky subject to bring up and I do not want to push Belegar further along the edge.
What reason do we have to apologize to Nuln. It was their scouts screwing up that lost them the battle and Kazrik's presence that saved the elector count. Nuln loves K8P right now.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
We know from the social scenes with Belegar that his edge is because he's worried that the entire expedition is essentially a waste of dwarven lives, to counter that you need to provide evidence that taking K8P and the way in which he's doing it is an unquestionable benefit to the dwarves as a whole. AV is one of those ways of doing so because it provides an unquestionable benefit to K8P and the Dwarves as a whole in perpetuity.
- Location
- Earth
Going further away from tradition is not something dwarves see as a benefit.
Dwarves are very pro tradition and anything trying to change things that have always been done has to prove itself a lot.
Experimental research into Daemons isn't even a Slippery Slope for them, it's jumping off the cliff with a laugh.
Even Mathilde had to argue with herself that the Snek is not aligned with any Chaos God to maybe not come against the articles.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Fair its not exactly our fault, but even then do we need a reason to want to reverse engineer one of the most powerful weapons in the empire's arsenal as well as potentially getting humans a working knowledge of how to steam engines on top of the gun craft improvements Anton diplo'd out of Gottri?
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
I'd say that depends on the minimal amount of AV needed to apply the techniques. The neutral tower is in many ways a downscaled permanently-on oh dear tower, and if the theoretical amount of Dhar produced in a total conversion is not too great to swamp the magic disposal system, the neutral tower should actually be better for it.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
Dwarves already have all the necessary know-how to build steam tanks, which puts this sort of suggestion in fuzzy ground. Does it count as sharing dwarven secrets, as they wouldn't actually be reverse engineering or discovering anything (just seeing what humans have already done), and humans don't know how to make this tech? Or would it be fine, as what they'd share would be something humans have shown themselves as capable of building, even if they don't currently have the knowledge to do it again?
Either way, it's a pretty low priority compared to the twenty-odd fires we have to worry about.
Last edited:
- Location
- Upon the back of the Great A'Tuin
I refuse to feel bad for not wanting to share credit on what will be our greatest magical achievement. If we were receiving genuine assistance, that would be one thing, but to share the credit on a completely unique and earthshattering discovery because they made it easier to fit into our schedule is not good enough. Mathilde has given 110% to her job, considering one of the perks of being such a skilled loremaster is supposed to be 'more time to work on personal projects' I don't think it's selfish to want to keep AV under our control. I mean, it might just be something that could genuinely get the attention of Teclis et. all (at least for ten minutes or so). Easier to do so if it isn't directly tied to the dwarves. Easier to provide the elves samples if Belegar doesn't have grounds to object. If it's not unreasonable for Kragg and other runesmiths to keep their knowledge to themselves, it's not unreasonable to keep AV for our self. I see the whole saga with the snake as something deeply personal to Mathilde, I would like to keep it that way until she writes her book.
Not really, AV has nothing to do with K8P except that it is ours, and we happen to be at K8P. It's just as easy to say that we could have deployed it years ago if we weren't being kept busy by the reclamation effort.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
No idea, all I know is that it'd take 10 favors for the Grand Master of Zhufbar's engineering guild to have a crack at it, which strikes me as a rather cheap cost for potentially getting something the Nuln folks have been hitting their head on for generations. Steam tanks and the steam engines are worth it. Seems to me that we just have to pay the favors (which we have) and let it happen as it will.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
I'm just going by stuff I heard, but wasn't daemon blood alongside dragon fire already used in some of the dwarves' lost runework?
- Location
- Utrecht
... why don't dwarves actually use steam tanks?
Usually it would be the unproven technology part, but our Military advisor is a ranger, our engineer is a radical and our king is pragmatic.
Trying 'newfangled' things like explosive shrapnel to control chokepoints has come up just one turn ago, along with the fact that it's not tactically mobile.
Why not float the idea of a steam tank to Gotri?
Depending on the state of the underway (i.e. is the ground level?), having a couple of armored hulls forming mobile chokepoints would probably do pretty well...
And with the new technology having been proven successful in battle, it's something that could be sent over to the rest of the dwarfs as a 'contribution' to Karaz Ankor's tech base.
Usually it would be the unproven technology part, but our Military advisor is a ranger, our engineer is a radical and our king is pragmatic.
Trying 'newfangled' things like explosive shrapnel to control chokepoints has come up just one turn ago, along with the fact that it's not tactically mobile.
Why not float the idea of a steam tank to Gotri?
Depending on the state of the underway (i.e. is the ground level?), having a couple of armored hulls forming mobile chokepoints would probably do pretty well...
And with the new technology having been proven successful in battle, it's something that could be sent over to the rest of the dwarfs as a 'contribution' to Karaz Ankor's tech base.
NeonLights
Formerly Reliable_2IC
- Location
- In shambles
Why work on a steam tank when the Gyrocopter does the same thing but better?
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
That's for spending favors to get Kragg to look at it at rates where we still get all the credit. Suggesting AV for research means we get to actually put actions into it, including creating a safety sheet to determine its storage and handling properties.
Only in the very early editions, where canon was built on what sounded cool instead of an actual coherent universe.
Flying underground tends to end poorly.