Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Could one of you point me to a with the amount of favor required for a magically inert research lab built by the Dawi?

 

[Seventeen]

Could one of you point me to a with the amount of favor required for a magically inert research lab built by the Dawi?

Click to shrink...

I believe it's five based on what others have said, and the same for the Colleges, but unfortunately I don't know where they were getting that information from.

 

[Guile]

Do keep in mind: the way the penthouse vote is currently structured, this debate is going to be relitigated each turn a proposal to expand the penthouse crops up. Even if both of you reach an agreement this turn, there is no guarantee that there would actually be a thread consensus, nor would this consensus necessarily be stable over multiple turns. There is every chance we'd end up building our Ulgu tower underground and Magically neutral research tower up, just because different planners were awake at different times when the penthouse construction vote dropped, and therefore pushed the thread consensus into different directions during the Moratorium.

Infact, there is even no agreement right now about how many labs we want to eventually push for, whether we want two libraries - a restricted library and a more accessible one to the journeymen in residence to our tower, and probably many other arguments that have not shown themselves so far over the lab.

As for my own two cents, if that's what it's worth:

The minimal requirements for our penthouse probably look like this:

1. Journeymen Quarters and Labs (Already done)
2. Secure Library (Urgent - I don't want our journeymen to have free access to some of the more esoteric texts without our permission)
3. Underground Secure Vault (Urgent - access only from our quarters)
4. Ulgu rich tower/enchantment workshop
5. Research Tower - Spell research, weapons testing, etc, etc....
6. Underground Forge Room for Chamon users
7 Airy Study/Observation Tower

Essentially, we might be looking at around three towers, and three underground rooms, with what I'd consider to be a minimal sanctum. It won't surprise me if there are even smaller sanctums preferred by others, who haven't spoken up now. Likewise, those who want to establish a branch campus of the College under our penthouse may well advocate for way more rooms than these 7. For example, I'm sure there's a crowd that'd like us to build 8 towers for the symbolic value of it. They'd run into fierce opposition after tower 3, and it's going to be a mess.

Here's the problem right now: because building the sanctum is a turn by turn vote, and there's no poll in place as to how big a sanctum the consensus actually wants or what the consensus might consider a minimally acceptable sanctum, I fear this issue is going to keep getting relitigated every single time enough of the thread rallies behind penthouse expansion, because it's not clear what the longer term consensus really is from turn by turn voting.

@BoneyM Your thoughts on this potential problem? Or do you think it's not much of a non-issue, and the penthouse debate should be played by ear for now?

Click to shrink...

We don't need a secure library. We have Alarm and Magesight. If one of our Journeymen go into our room and start snooping around our stuff, Mathilde is going to give them the old Iron Sheik.

 

[BlackWink]

We should just splurge on an architect to draw up some plans that we vote on. No reason to do this step by step after our urgent requirements are addressed.

I'd prefer that instead of awkwardly designing our house like a brick by brick lego project.

 

[Alliterate]

We don't need a secure library. We have Alarm and Magesight. If one of our Journeymen go into our room and start snooping around our stuff, Mathilde is going to give them the old Iron Sheik.

Click to shrink...

Counterpoint- Not much we can do about it in the middle of a three-week infiltration of Clan Skryre or w/e.
Yes, I think I also want a secure library/storage, though Belegar's Armoury is serving as such in the interim.

 

[wrecksalot]

I would prefer a secure library to ensure that our Skaven books don't all burn on some mysterious fire.

 

[Abby Normal]

Might have already been pointed out in the discussion, since i'm skimming in between tutoring prep, but i dont think i saw anyone mentioning this:

2) Mountain construction is linear. Don't dig at the foundations while building a tower on top, and you can't excavate the next layer down until the one above it is finished. The upside is that while the 'basement' of the Penthouse only has two rooms, the subbasement would have three, the subsubbasement four, and so on.

Click to shrink...

Which is pretty important for 'build up or down' arguments here

Edit: To clarify, i was talking about the 'each floor down gives an extra room per action' bit, not the build order being linear bit

 

[Guile]

Counterpoint- Not much we can do about it in the middle of a three-week infiltration of Clan Skryre or w/e.
Yes, I think I also want a secure library/storage, though Belegar's Armoury is serving as such in the interim.

Click to shrink...

I think disappearing into the bowels of the Earth for three weeks is long enough for people to start declaring you legally dead.

 

[Businessmanga]

Secure library/storage: just sink everything we own fully inside of walls with Substance of Shadow, chisel a hairline repairable crack into the wall to get it out when we need it! Problem solved!

 

[wrecksalot]

Might have already been pointed out in the discussion, since i'm skimming in between tutoring prep, but i dont think i saw anyone mentioning this:

Which is pretty important for 'build up or down' arguments here

Click to shrink...

That was in regards to why we should choose one option per turn, I trust dwarves to be able to handle making a tower with subbasements.

 

[deathofrats0808]

Yes, but by WOG dwarves are better at it.

One of these days, I am going to write a wall of text on Mathilde as a representation of a less commonly used aspect of Ulgu: smoke instead of the usual shadow, confusion instead of the feeling of being lost.

Mathilde is very ulgu, just in a less explored way.

Right now, too sleepy.


Gromril mines are also full of warpstone, and so are a strategically important object as far as the skaven are concerned. They will fight tooth and nail for it.

Click to shrink...

Where are you getting the idea that gromril always turns up around warpstone? The two aren't connected other than sometimes they both fall from the sky.

 

[Andmeuths]

Which is pretty important for 'build up or down' arguments here

Click to shrink...

It's important for the build order, yes. It's not important for how the long term structure of the tower ought to look, except in so far the build order determines that long term structure.

This is a potentially big problem, when the thread has probably five or six different visions for the tower, and it isn't clear which vision is being supported.

Hence:

We should just splurge on an architect to draw up some plans that we vote on. No reason to do this step by step after our urgent requirements are addressed.

I'd prefer that instead of awkwardly designing our house like a brick by brick lego project.

Click to shrink...

I fully agree with this statement. The question is, how much of the thread agrees with you? The question is, since BoneyM expressed skepticism to this idea in his most recent post, how are you going to convince the QM this is a good idea?

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Where are you getting the idea that gromril always turns up around warpstone? The two aren't connected other than sometimes they both fall from the sky.

Click to shrink...

Not always, but it's actually common enough to associate gromril with Warpstone. If there is Warpstone, there could very well be gromril, and vice versa.

 

[Boney]

Spoiler: Voting results

[*] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[*] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[*] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth.

[*] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[*] [ENCHANTMENT] No purchase.
[*] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons

Stirland's Council met primarily in a dedicated room in Eagle Castle, and the Expedition's Council of War met wherever was convenient at the time. The Council of Karak Eight Peaks, it seems, is going to work differently. 'Walking distance' means different things to different people, and apparently to Dwarves it means they see no reason not to drag the entire Council from place to place within the Karak for everyone to show off the results of their labour. Between the distances and the sheer number of stairs involved, you're glad you're in shape and doubly glad that if necessary, you can rely on Ulgu to shield you from fatigue.

Princess Edda's efforts are visible in a stable carved into the side of Karag Nar, where an assortment of donkeys, mules, oxen and pack-horses munch their way through the grasses the Halflings have cleared out of what are to be their fields, which is also spreading throughout the nearby peaks and valleys. Dwarves were not the greatest of overland traders, and most would greatly prefer to go by steamship or limit themselves to what could be carried in backpacks than trust in a draft animal and a wooden wagon. For now, Karak Eight Peaks did not have that luxury, and though some sort of oversized powered minecart through the Underway from Ulrikadrin to Death Pass was discussed as a possible solution, the cost would apparently be ruinous. So Princess Edda instead fell back upon meeting every trader who had been commissioned to bring supplies from Barak Varr and offered them an additional payment to leave their cart and pack animal behind and return on foot. King Belegar orders the construction of a similar stable in Ulrikadrin so that supplies could be transported at least part of the way, with the prospering Ulricans to build wagons out of some of their timber.

This leads naturally into Prince Kazrik's trip to Barak Varr, which by the sound of it has been quite a success. Karak Azul has been effectively cut off from the world for all of living memory, and though Karak Azul is both famed and named for the iron mines, gold and gemstones have been accumulating for generations. A significant fraction of that wealth has hit the unsuspecting Barak Varr like a tidal wave, and many sellers of weapons, firearms, luxury goods, exotic materials, and countless other items Karak Azul couldn't produce for itself found themselves utterly bereft of goods and awash in gold and jewels. This generated a great deal of goodwill, and Prince Kazrik was able to make it clear that it was only the continued existence of Karak Eight Peaks that made this and all future trade possible. If there was any discontent in Barak Varr at the continued cost of supplying Eight Peaks, it has been well and truly obliterated. King Belegar considers the matter settled and points Prince Kazrik towards Ulrikadrin, to get a feeling for how permanent the settlement is likely to be and familiarize himself with the manling knights who ruled it.

A short walk then takes the council to the southwestern portion of the Eastern Valley, where a stone wall twice your height has been erected along the base of Kvinn-Wyr, with towers thrice that a ways back. "Unmortared," Dreng comments. "The idea isn't to stop the trolls, but to slow them down and have them make a lot of noise getting through. Each tower has bolt throwers and a bell. The bolt throwers kill the troll, the bell calls for reinforcements if they can't."

"Seen any use?" King Belegar asks.

"Some. Built the wall in stages with all the bolt throwers nearby, because the sound of construction kept attracting them. Now that it's built and they can't see over it, most who wander out just wander back in. Far as I can tell, the ones who end up attacking the wall are just the ones who can't find their way back into the mountain."

"How do the towers do, then?"

"They can't knock them over, but they seem to think they can because they could push through the walls, so they usually spend a lot of time trying. Each tower has murder holes that can be opened to fire down on them and closed if it starts to vomit. The bolt throwers can't fire straight down, so I've had to divert handguns from the Underway."

"We need more. Maybe Barak Varr-"

"Cleaned out, I'm afraid." Prince Kazrik interrupts.

"Blast. Prince Gotri, could Zhufbar provide?"

"We've got quality niter coming out of Stirland, so we've got more gunpowder than guns. Father's been expanding the Thunderers to make use of it all. No surplus for trade."

"Dreng, see if any can be shaken loose from Hirn or Izor. Failing that, we may have to buy them from the humans."

"The Countess of Stirland is expanding her handgunners, too," you say. "There's a new factory under construction but it won't be producing guns until next year at the earliest. Until then..."

King Belegar sighs. "It might be good tidings that everywhere I look an ally is growing stronger. Fine. Dreng, if all else fails go to Norn and clean them out of crossbows. They've got a higher pull weight so they should make a dent in the trolls."

---

Karag Lhune is the focus of the remaining Councillors, and King Belegar decides to start from the top. When last you saw them, the hangars were enormous empty spaces; now they've been filled in, and you stand in one of the compartments, with a freshly-polished gyrocopter in the middle and a canvas barrier over the opening, rippling in the wind. "Honeycomb pattern," Prince Gotri says. "Currently six by four, but that can be expanded effectively infinitely, or until we run out of mountain. Currently we've just got curtains, but we can put in hinged stone gates. There's firing platforms above and below each bay, and each could hold a bolt thrower or an organ gun or even just a squad of Thunderers, though of course we've got none of the above right now because all the things that go 'bang' are on the defensive lines."

"Different design to Karaz-a-Karak," King Belegar says.

"Because the primary purpose of the Karaz-a-Karak Aircorp is to project power. If you're sending a half-dozen squadrons six hours away to Karak Wherever, doesn't matter if you're only putting ten in the sky at once, so you can keep all your 'copters tucked away safe when they're not in use. Here, the enemies are inside our doorstep, so every 'copter needs to be able to launch as soon as the horn blows. Coke and powder bunkers are deeper inside, only enough for a single refuel/reload kept in each bay."

"Is this the complete design?"

"Far from," is the instant and heartfelt response. "Apart from the lack of defences. There's basic repair facilities in each bay, but if any of them need more than a few screws tightened it means I gotta lug my toolbox over. We need a single engineering bay deeper in the mountain for serious repairs or major overhauls, but that means either ramps or an elevator. Could really use the main Lhune elevator too, to keep from having each sack of powder or crate of parts carried by hand all the way up from the Underway."

"The elevator will have to wait - blasted mushrooms run amok, damn near entirely clogging it in places. Build your engineering bay."

The next step down adjoins the Hall of Oaths. The Karak Eight Peaks of the past recorded the name of all who fell in defence of the Karak, but King Belegar intended to do one better and inter their physical remains in a proper tomb. The Council stands in a room yet to be put to use, as Dwarven custom dictates that a Tomb was to be sealed, ideally permanently, after the dead were lain to rest. "I've taken additional acolytes from Clan Huzkul," Gunnars says, "but the masons are working ahead, since the stone is going to reinforce the defensive lines. We've mostly finished with the Dwarven remains, and the Halflings are taking care of their own, but the human fallen are trickier. I know enough of Morrite rites to put them to rest under their own God, but it is time-consuming to perform each individually, and I do not know any way to perform this more efficiently."

Of course, only respectful silence meets Gunnars' grim report, but you have to bite your tongue. The earliest chapters of the Liber Mortis spent quite a lot of time and ink grappling with this very question, but of course you can't really cite the Liber bloody Mortis as your source. Perhaps, you realize, your service in Stirland and within Sylvania could be cited as the source of your knowledge - but by the time you come up with this explanation, the group has begun to move on. So you make a note to give the matter more thought later and prepare your own report as the group enters the Chiselwards, and the Hammerers that had been unobtrusively shadowing the group instead flank it as you reach what they believe to be unfriendly territory.

Just past the guard post, one of the We had been waiting, and it steps into the light obligingly. "They're unrelated to the Forest Spiders the Goblins make use of," you say as the party peers doubtfully at the creature. "As far as I can tell, their species is part of the ecosystem of the Skaven Under-Empire. Their venom is a paralytic, and any Skaven or greenskin they capture is taken back to their hive to feed the other castes - the web-weavers and the egg-layers. They like to have a properly-established nest-"

"Like to?" Prince Kazrik interrupts doubtfully.

"Yes, each individual hunter is about equivalent to a big cat in intelligence, and the web-weavers and egg-layers would be helpless on their own. But collectively, they form a single rather intelligent mind, capable of abstract thought and complex decision-making. They seemed rather shocked to discover that any being outside their species was capable of it, and combined with the formidable defences the Dwarves have demonstrated, they're open to an alliance."

"Are you telling me you've negotiated an alliance with spiders?" King Belegar asks wearily, his eyes returning the unnerving multi-directional stare of the hunter-We.

"Well, if you just want to get rid of them, if you cleared a way into the Underway they'd be happy to take it and get back to preying on Skaven or greenskins. But I think that would be a wasted opportunity. They switched from Skaven to greenskins because the Skaven would respond in force after they lost too many clanrats to the spiders, and while the greenskins are trickier prey they don't react with guns and flamethrowers. So we could just point them at one or the other and call it a day, but if we guaranteed a safe defensive position, the Skaven would not be able to find the nest and would suffer effectively permanent attrition."

"They had me at the part where they eat Skaven," Prince Gotri says.

"They can't have the Chiselwards," Princess Edda says. "There's no other place in Karag Lhune that could fit us, excavating would take too long, and we'd have to evict the Undumgi from Karag Nar if we went there instead."

"She's right, we can't have them next door to our sleeping quarters," King Belegar says. "If you can figure out a means of communication that works after your Gorzhufokri leave and find them a place behind our defences that doesn't let them crawl into anyone's beds if they're of a mind, they can stay. Otherwise, point them into the Underway with a hearty goodbye."

---

The penultimate Any Other Matters finally takes the Council to a proper meeting room, which you'd prepared ahead of time. The Dwarves look doubtful, but Belegar's lack of reaction has them cautiously edge into the room and take a seat, leaning away from the labyrinthine projection.

"Wait," says Dreng. He stands up and peers at the uppermost part. "That's the Citadel defences."

"It is," you confirm happily. "All the way down to the Trench below the Cavern of Stars, as far west as the Zilfin low mines, as far north as where the Underway splits off towards Karak Drazh. The full extent of Clan Mors' current holdings and defensive lines."

"Defensive lines against who?" asks Prince Gotri.

"Clan Moulder under Karagril, Clan Skryre under Zilfin. I suspect a third source of pressure from Karag Yar based on their defences, but I couldn't identify what and it might have been part of the Zilfin defensive lines."

Now that they know what they're looking at, the Council is leaning in with fascination, and circling it to get a better view. You let their conversation continue for a while as Dreng sends for his cartographer, and then you interrupt casually. "Oh, and while I was down there, I reclaimed this."

You spent quite some time cutting free the Skaven leather and washing off the worst of the blood and stains, but there's still a fair bit keeping the gromril from shining. On top of that, jagged rents showed where some Skaven had gradually worked away at what had once been a single piece to cut it in two, so it could be crudely strapped to some Skaven champion. Nevertheless, all eyes are instantly locked on the gromril breastplate.

You had warned him ahead of time, as well as making your recommendation as to the use it could be put to, and King Belegar is not frozen in shock like the others. He leans forward, picking up the craftsmanship as carefully as if it were the most fragile crystal instead of one of the hardest known substances in existence. Turning it over in his hands, he runs calloused fingertips over the runes engraved in the inside, near the neck.

[Rolling...]

"Zhufbar," he finally says.

Prince Gotri picks up the other piece and examines it with care. "Ironbreaker," he concludes. "Expeditionary rather than Hold defence. Old design. About the year 5600, give or take." You mentally convert it to the Imperial calendar in your head; that would make it about fourteen centuries old.

King Belegar stares at the breastplate, his mind working. "A heavy loss," he says slowly.

Prince Gotri shrugs. "Gromril's gromril, of course, but Expeditionary. Property of the Crown, distributed as needed for specific mine-and-dash jobs. Mangled by rats and an outmoded design besides. We'd not say no if you're feeling generous, but it'd be worth no more there than it is here."

"Then," King Belegar says, "I believe we can find a suitable use for it."

---

Deep in the heart of Karag Lhune, Kragg grimaced at the Rune he had just struck. A shoddy job, it would barely last a century or two before beginning to fade. He resisted the urge to throw it back into the crucible; this was only needed for a single task, and in these dire times such shortcomings had to be accepted. He threw the amulet at the beardling that was sadly necessary for the task at hand, and the youngster stammered thanks that he utterly ignored. Any unprotected Dwarf would risk passing out in the heat the white-hot furnace was giving off, and it still wasn't quite hot enough for the task at hand. Smelting gromril was hard enough; purifying it all the way to glimril was lost, and even getting it to a state that it could hold the most powerful of runes was beyond just about any Dwarf born to this benighted time. Lucky for the Karaz Ankor that Kragg still remained.

As the Grandmaster of the Karak Azul Guild of Blacksmiths shovelled more fuel into the rune-enhanced fire under the protection of the newly-made amulet, Kragg grimaced once more, this time in distaste at the mold. Molding! A proper Dwarf worked with hammer and molten metal, and if it took decades and wore out hammers by the score, then so be it. And the shape, too. Hammers were best, of course, with axes a close second. A pick was a worthy weapon in a pinch, and Kragg would reluctantly concede that spears had a time and a place. But swords?

He steeled himself. The partnership between Dawi and Umgi predated even him, and he was forced to admit that it wasn't entirely a bad decision. And to be a Dwarf meant repaying what is owed. Grudges, of course, were repaid in blood and death, but the other side was that those that helped the Karaz Ankor were repaid in ways commensurate with their act. When Sigmar had saved the High King, he had not only been gifted the ancient treasure Ghal-Maraz, but on top of that the best Runesmith of the age was commissioned to create something entirely new to settle the debt. Similarly, when manlings aided the greatest reconquest in millennia, the burden was on him to repay it. And they did so with swords, so swords it had to be. And with them being cursed with ridiculously brief lifetimes, decades could not be spared to properly form it. Even years would be too long.

Finally, a cry of success came from his accomplice, and Kragg glanced over as the gromril shimmered and steamed as the impurities finally surrendered and evaporated. Kragg put all doubts and grumblings from his mind as the gromril began to pour. He would see to it that all would know that the Karaz Ankor would be as indefatigable in rewarding its friends as it was at punishing its foes.

[Favours spent. Work has begun.]



Mandatory Actions: Pick one from each category.

Journeyman Maximilian de Gaynesford, Gold Wizard
[ ] Allow him to spend all his time on his metalworking studies.
[ ] Have Maximilian learn a skill: specify what from who. You may pay for a trainer.
[ ] Have Maximilian learn a spell: specify which.
[ ] Current Task: Have Maximilian perform or assist with spider autopsies.
[ ] Current Task: Have Maximilian investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
[ ] Current Task: Have Maximilian teach the We written Reikspiel.
[ ] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (choose which from 'Publish or Perish')
[ ] Have Maximilian write a paper on a subject you dictate.

Magister Johann, Gold Wizard
[ ] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Moulder.
[ ] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors.
[ ] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Skryre.
[ ] Have Johann learn a skill: specify what from who. You may pay for a trainer.
[ ] Have Johann learn a spell: specify which.
[ ] Current Task: Have Johann perform or assist with spider autopsies.
[ ] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
[ ] Current Task: Have Johann teach the We written Reikspiel.
[ ] Have Johann attempt to write a paper (choose which from 'Publish or Perish')

The Eastern Imperial Company
Your outstanding debt: 1,200 gc
Your share of EIC profits: 100 gc / turn
Current Focus of the EIC: Handgun Factory in Blutdorf
[ ] Call in 1 favour for Dwarven expertise for the Factory's safety.
[ ] Call in 2 favours for Dwarven expertise for the Factory's efficiency.
[ ] Call in 4 favours for Dwarven expertise for the quality of the products.
[ ] Establish an outpost of the EIC in The Moot.
[ ] Establish an outpost of the EIC in Zhufbar.
[ ] Establish an outpost of the EIC in Barak Varr.
[ ] Strike a deal to have the EIC take over Barak Varr - K8P transportation contracts.
[ ] Strike a deal to have the EIC purchase and resell Ulrikadrin timber.
[ ] Strike a deal to have the EIC supply and control the shops of Karag Nar.
[ ] Instil corporate policy: information gathering (news).
[ ] Instil corporate policy: long-term financial good of the Empire.
[ ] Instil corporate policy: medium-term financial good of individual Provinces.
[ ] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
[ ] Attempt to build your own information network within the EIC.


Personal Actions: choose between four and six. Any chosen beyond four will come with risks - please specify 'additional' tasks.

Current Task: Investigate the Chiselwards spiders.
[ ] Teach the We written Khazalid.
[ ] Teach the We written Reikspiel.
[ ] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
[ ] Deliver King Belegar's request to the College for a translation item (does not cost an action).
[ ] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
[ ] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
[ ] Help the We establish their new nest below Karag Lhune.
[ ] Help the We establish their new nest below Karag Nar.
[ ] Study the webs the We produce.
[ ] Perform a series of autopsies upon the corpses of the We; they have confirmed they are okay with this, and would otherwise simply eat them.

Self-Improvement:
[ ] Ask an acquaintance to train you in a skill: specify who and what.
[ ] Hire a trainer to come to Eight Peaks and teach you: specify what. (costs favours for Dwarf trainers, money for human ones)
[ ] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
[ ] Attempt to learn a spell from College-supplied scrolls (specify which)

Karak Eight Peaks, friendly:
[ ] Francesco Caravello has emerged as the leader of the Undumgi. He will likely end up under Dreng's or Princess Edda's control, but you could step in and bring them under yours. 2 organisations cost 1 action per turn.
[ ] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
[ ] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and keep it for yourself.
[ ] Settlers, traders, and prospective wives are arriving. Start building an information network amongst them.
[ ] Crime is inevitable, so it may as well be organized crime. Send word to Heideck and make sure that when an underworld emerges, it will be a Ranaldian one. This cannot be tracked back to you.
[ ] Crime is inevitable, so it may as well be organized crime. Send word to Heideck to send individuals who will construct an underworld under your command. This will be concealed, but could be tracked back to you. Will be under your control; 2 organisations cost 1 action per turn.

Karak Eight Peaks, hostile:
[ ] Kvinn-Wyr is full of trolls. Investigate this for yourself.
[ ] Travel underneath Kvinn-Wyr and investigate Karag Mhonar.
[ ] Travel through the Underway into Karag Yar, to investigate the third source of pressure on Clan Mors.
[ ] You've mapped the territory of Clan Mors. Go down there and cause some havoc.
[ ] You've mapped the territory of Clan Mors. Go down there and see what you can acquire.
[ ] Clan Moulder are set up under Karagril. Investigate.
[ ] Greenskins currently occupy Karagril. Find out what tribe they are and who rules them.
[ ] Investigate underneath Karag Lhune: the Lhune Deeps and the Grand Abyss.

Research:
[ ] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 13 gallons.
[ ] Instead of seeking the secrets of the blood, simply see if it can be weaponized in some way.
[ ] You've got Ranald's Coin around your neck. Study it to see if you can gain an insight into Divine Energy.
[ ] Send to the Grey College for the appropriate scrolls to learn a specific spell: specify which.
[ ] Investigate how Pall of Darkness interacts with your sharpened magical senses.
[ ] Investigate how the We communicates with... itself?
[ ] The Second Secret of Dhar teaches how to collapse it upon itself. Practice upon local Dhar taint, and see if this works with Warpstone.

Publish or Perish (if Max is writing papers you dictate, two of the below can be selected for a single action):
[ ] Collate the information that the Army of Stirland collected during the Purge.
[ ] Write a paper on the Waaagh energy and magic witnessed during the Expedition.
[ ] Write a paper on your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
[ ] Write a paper on the Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual.
[ ] Write a paper on Mathilde's Multidimensional Aethyric Projection.
[ ] Write a paper on the We.

Karag Nar Penthouse: each turn, you get ONE free choice in this category. Additional selections cost actions.
[ ] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
[ ] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -50gc for 2 rooms.
Setting up rooms for specific purposes will have to wait until new rooms are constructed or excavated. Only one construction or excavation can take place at a time, but you can do one of each.
Building downwards will increase by 1 each time; second set of excavated rooms will be 3 rooms, third will be 4, and so on.
Building upwards can be added upon; towers can be added on to or additional towers can be built. The distinction between the two is entirely cosmetic.

Personal Relations: each turn, you get ONE free choice in this category. Additional selections cost actions.
[ ] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: specify who and how.
[ ] Spend time investigating a character without their knowledge: specify who.
[ ] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
[ ] Get in touch with Julia and find out if she'd be interested in passing on information to you.

Ranald's Coin - specify which face it will be set to
[ ] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to.
A +20 bonus to up to two dice rolls resulting from a single chosen action.
[ ] The Night Prowler
As long as you are outside of private property and within a town or city, nobody will question your presence and nobody will be able to find you if you do not wish them to.
[ ] The Deceiver: describe how this will be used.
Lies you have developed beforehand will be delivered perfectly. The listener may believe you to be mistaken, but they will never believe that you are lying. Cannot be used to tell truths.
[ ] The Protector
When you act in a way that defends an individual or group from a danger that you did not cause, they will become aware of what you have done and will believe you acted selflessly in doing so.


- Some have suggested using Mathilde's newly-learned Morrite lore to assist with Gunnars' tomb-construction. This would fall under 'spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task'.
- Underlings and organizations are interchangeable for action economy - if you had one underling and one organization, it would 'cost' a total of one action.
- Paper-writing has been tweaked.
- If you do not help the We with making their new home, it will be outside of the Dwarven defences.
- There is a four hour voting moratorium.

 

[Abby Normal]

That was in regards to why we should choose one option per turn, I trust dwarves to be able to handle making a tower with subbasements.

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I meant the 'you get more at a time the deeper you go' bit; i think i saw some brainstorming going on with '6 underground rooms = 3 actions' style math, as opposed to the actual case where 3 actions digging down is 10 rooms.

 

[wrecksalot]

It's important for the build order, yes. It's not important for how the long term structure of the tower ought to look, except in so far the build order determines that long term structure.

This is a potentially big problem, when the thread has probably five or six different visions for the tower, and it isn't clear which vision is being supported.

Hence:



I fully agree with this statement. The question is, how much of the thread agrees with you? The question is, since BoneyM expressed skepticism to this idea in his most recent post, how are you going to convince the QM this is a good idea?

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I disagree, I want the tower to form in an organic way over time.

 

[deathofrats0808]

Not always, but it's actually common enough to associate gromril with Warpstone. If there is Warpstone, there could very well be gromril, and vice versa.

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That's...odd. Warpstone does come down in meteorites, but those are basically chunks of Morrslieb while gromril is essentially the really old fantasy trope of metal falling from the skies being better. Not to mention warpstone doesn't always come from meteors.

 

[Boney]

Just edited it in to the post because I forgot it, but four hour voting moratorium.

I'll keep an eye on how this goes and if it proves unnecessary with the library stuff quarantined it might not continue to be a thing.

 

[Andmeuths]

The second would be a restricted library and attendant reading room. Some people have mentioned that having a large library will lead people to seek out Mathilde for knowledge. Some have even discussed a sort of lending library function. But books on daemons, magic in general, the Skaven, and a number of other topics need to be kept out of the hands of pretty much everyone and the higher tiers of our library will need to be kept separate purely for their value and irreplaceability. The secure library is for that. We could even have two sections, with the dangerous lore being kept behind a cool secret door. (Later, on a lower level of the mountain, we would be able to have a more general-access library, taking the lower tiers of general academics and anything else we pick up like romance novels. Though that would be much later indeed, since if we have people wanting access to our books, we'll have to have a personal staff to deal with that. For now, the secure library would be the only library). Once we have the reading room set up I believe we'd also get a bonus to writing papers for the Colleges.

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We don't need a secure library. We have Alarm and Magesight. If one of our Journeymen go into our room and start snooping around our stuff, Mathilde is going to give them the old Iron Sheik.

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Guile, that's precisely the point: the entire debate started with Seventeen proposing a restricted library. I am simply building of this initial argument. And I can tell you that both your skepticism, and Seventeen's long justification for the Library, and Alliterate's defence for the library is going to go on and on for two levels:

1. When should we build the library? Now?
2. Should we even build the library? Ever?

Remember, even if the build the Library vote is defeated, it is not clear whether it's defeated because the thread thinks we don't need the secure library now, but will support a library later, or whether the thread rejects a secure library once and for all. I foresee Relitigation is going to be a word freely thrown around during Penthouse votes, because of this ambiguity.

I disagree, I want the tower to form in an organic way over time.

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Then you have to contest every single person coming in and saying we ought to do X and Y for our sanctum over the next few turns, and everyone presenting long term visions for the tower. That's yet another level of debate and makes the entire situation even messier since you are going to reject Seventeen, Totally Not Evil, Veekie etc, etc positions on sheer principle and insistence that sanctum construction ought to be organic. And maybe the thread agrees with you? How do we know what the silent majority thinks? That's part of the problem I think that's going to eat up a good chunk of the next 500-600 pages of this thread at least.

It also kind of risks the phenomena of people talking past each other, when fundamental assumptions differ that much.

 

[Ptolemy]

Out of curiosity, what was the original reasoning for becoming specialised with a two-handed sword? It's not exactly a practical weapon in a lot of situations, it's difficult to conceal, and it means we can't have a hand free to use our gun, a shield, or anything else. Considering that we don't wear heavy armour either, it just seems a pretty odd choice all around.

I'd have thought a one handed sword of some kind would be better: it would be easier to conceal, better in tight spaces, easier to wield effectively, and generally a lot more versatile. It just seems that going with that would have meshed a lot better with the rest of our character build, at least as I see it.

 

[BlackWink]

I fully agree with this statement. The question is, how much of the thread agrees with you? The question is, since BoneyM expressed skepticism to this idea in his most recent post, how are you going to convince the QM this is a good idea?

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I enjoy this more as a friendly discussion instead of a political debate. No reason for me to worry about seriously convincing people. All ready got too much stress with midterm season

 

[spiritualatheist]

@BoneyM, did we get any favor for returning the Gromril?

 

[NavySeel]

Out of curiosity, what was the original reasoning for becoming specialised with a two-handed sword? It's not exactly a practical weapon in a lot of situations, it's difficult to conceal, and it means we can't have a hand free to use our gun, a shield, or anything else. Considering that we don't wear heavy armour either, it just seems a pretty odd choice all around.

I'd have thought a one handed sword of some kind would be better: it would be easier to conceal, better in tight spaces, easier to wield effectively, and generally a lot more versatile. It just seems that going with that would have meshed a lot better with the rest of our character build, at least as I see it.

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The most elite troops of the empire are greatswords and we learned to use a sword from them.

Also a two handed sword really not anywhere near as unwieldy as some people seem to think.

 

[Silver719]

So if I were a dwarf Runesmith and the Cavern of Stars were suddenly overrun, and I had no hope of escaping with whatever secrets I might have, the first thing I would do is seal up my workshop and hide it away, using runes that invoke Ulgu heavily to make one forget.

@BoneyM If there were such runes hidden under the Caldera, would we be capable of spotting them or seeing through them, with our Ulgu affinity and Wind-reading traits?

 

[Abby Normal]

[ ] A library is basically an external brain. Add to yours. (no action required, money and favour cost listed on charsheet)

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Forgot to remove this option it seems

Edit switching to a ping since 1. that can apparently be applied through edits nowwhich is still bloody magic to me, and 2. in retrospect @BoneyM you probably have way too many 'X has quoted yourpost' alerts to notice them so this is more likely to work