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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Karugus said:
Mathilde is actually pretty good at causing routs and mass casualties because making the enemy scared enough to run comes pretty easily with her Dread Aspect. I mean, look at it from the TT perspective as an example- Mathilde's stubborn* so her leadership can never be changed by losing combat, she inflicts fear and terror and she's liable to kill any mooks she hits. Something like 4 attacks if we factor in the Revolver and d3 d6 strength hits means she's going to be killing a few. And only like ~5 of her enemies are actually going to be able go after her at once.
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A couple of points. First, I totally think we could one-shot most orcs. That's not the issue I have with charging into orcs. The issue I have is that a) our armor is lagging behind our other gear, b) the seed won't help as much vs orcs, as they are the type to beat a dead horse, and c) our AoE dps is still too low. But if we go through the shadow upgrades, we could improve that and make us not just an assassin, but a unit killer.
 
BungieONI said:
Incorrect in my opinion, someone raised a very good point that if we want to use it as a means to signal we're still alive while on a distant campaign dealing with distant things that need reinforcement its great.

Its also good for making a good first impression on Bretonnians and other human nations if we flip that on and take a walk in their forests before finding the closest city.
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Don't think so. Remember the limitations of Protector.
Is the action clearly and unambiguously protecting a target if they knew about it?

Protector has the easiest time doing:
-Vigilante rescues. If you swoop down and KO a mugger then vanish, they'd still attribute the deed correctly.
-Warzone activity. Any time you're fighting a common foe at war, it'd score on a passive level, the opponent IS going to try to kill them.
-Threats in presence. Killing Alkharad COULD potentially have set off an empire wide ping, given the College of Necromancy, but it'd certainly set it off for just about everyone in the environs of Stirland, given that his unleashing of pets. However the Ham Dragons are unlikely to register for anything beyond their immediate area.

So killing random Undead, Beastmen or Skaven would probably score pretty low, they aren't an active threat to anything but their immediate neighbors. You need to kill a leader or break a herdstone to ping at the county level, and good luck pinging anything back to Eight Peaks unless we found ourselves punching Chaos in the face.

In which case you go back to the argument that we should be using Gambler instead for risky things.
 
So hey, interesting thought: the way the Protector is written, it specifically makes people think that you acted selflessly in their defense. How pervasive is that feeling? Do the halflings feel like we're specifically and selflessly protecting them when we fight in the Karak? Are we the savior of the hired mercenaries, each one convinced we're here for them? Does it extend to the Ulrikadrin, the Border Princes, the merchants passing through? How wide is the effect here?
bookworm702 said:
Also, I'm not going to beat around the bush, Griffons...are kind of jerks. They're pretty much never happy. Pegasi, by contrast, are quite happy with being mounts and companions after some training.
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'Arrogant and picky' was how BoneyM described them.
 
[X] MATHILDE: Infiltrate Karagril early, and rampage through enemy lines once battle begins.

Here to support the underdog option. Also, this move would probably help the first wave of mercenaries alot and reduce the chance that they break before the Orks do. Mathilde Rear Charge Sandwhich anyone?

[X] Set it to the Protector, so that all will know your exploits.
 
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[X] MATHILDE: Infiltrate Karagril as a disguised orc. Use the deciever to stake your name on the position as boss and use that to start an all-out brawl before the army arrives.

Somehow I lost my vote? I said I'd vote for this so this is what I'll vote. Warboss Mathilde is just too funny to pass up.
 
Abhorsen said:
A couple of points. First, I totally think we could one-shot most orcs. That's not the issue I have with charging into orcs. The issue I have is that a) our armor is lagging behind our other gear, b) the seed won't help as much vs orcs, as they are the type to beat a dead horse, and c) our AoE dps is still too low. But if we go through the shadow upgrades, we could improve that and make us not just an assassin, but a unit killer.
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Between 4-7 attacks is not exactly low end 'aoe' DPS-. Most Orcs aren't going to be doing so hot to actually wound us given their damage output peters out after the first round and we'd be incredibly difficult to flank or surround with a lethal shadow trying to kill them in a narrow enclosed space. I mean, I don't have the patience to sim too much out but I'm pretty sure 3 Savage Orc Big'Uns can't reliably out damage the Seed, and she'd take them apart with her own attacks. 9 S5 hitting on a 4+ Wounding on a 4+? 4.5 hits, 2.5 wounds (not counting Armor Saves) means some of the most compact violent melee units aren't going to stop us in our tracks and it's only going to go downhill for them from there.

The goal is to find a spot where the Orcs need to get through that's a narrow chokepoint, pop Dread Aspect and Darth Vader our way into causing the Orcs a rout they can't afford.
 
veekie said:
Don't think so. Remember the limitations of Protector.
Is the action clearly and unambiguously protecting a target if they knew about it?

Protector has the easiest time doing:
-Vigilante rescues. If you swoop down and KO a mugger then vanish, they'd still attribute the deed correctly.
-Warzone activity. Any time you're fighting a common foe at war, it'd score on a passive level, the opponent IS going to try to kill them.
-Threats in presence. Killing Alkharad COULD potentially have set off an empire wide ping, given the College of Necromancy, but it'd certainly set it off for just about everyone in the environs of Stirland, given that his unleashing of pets. However the Ham Dragons are unlikely to register for anything beyond their immediate area.

So killing random Undead, Beastmen or Skaven would probably score pretty low, they aren't an active threat to anything but their immediate neighbors. You need to kill a leader or break a herdstone to ping at the county level, and good luck pinging anything back to Eight Peaks unless we found ourselves punching Chaos in the face.

In which case you go back to the argument that we should be using Gambler instead for risky things.
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This doesn't really affect the second point of making a good first impression in a new place. Like, its a good point against the first one I'll give you that but. Say we want to make a good impression in Bretonnia, we can wander into the forest and kill a bunch of beastmen near a fort or moderately sized town. Those beastmen would have been a threat to that town because of proximity and we have a good first impression in that town which we can leverage for the rest of the place.

Its excellent for diplomacy, in the situation where we actually try and prepare a good first impression.
 
Hey, @BoneyM, is our connection to Wolf purely magical, or is it partly spiritual? I mean, in the sense that it either does or doesn't require a direct connection to the Warp/Aethyr.

The reason I'm wondering is because it sounds fairly straightforward for a normal wizard, and they'd never have to worry about it, but seeing as how you've confirmed that Mathilde was secretly a vampire all along I'd like to know if there were any difficulties due to her lack of connection to the warp.
 
Ganurath said:
Amusing, but if he doesn't follow Mathilde's example by being a priest of Ranald, the smart money is on Ulric, if for no other reason than they'd be most receptive to his efforts to join.
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I joke about Sigmar, but if we put him in charge of the library like a lot of people were planning, I can see a non-meme chance of him going for Verena.
 
BungieONI said:
This doesn't really affect the second point of making a good first impression in a new place. Like, its a good point against the first one I'll give you that but. Say we want to make a good impression in Bretonnia, we can wander into the forest and kill a bunch of beastmen near a fort or moderately sized town. Those beastmen would have been a threat to that town because of proximity and we have a good first impression in that town which we can leverage for the rest of the place.

Its excellent for diplomacy, in the situation where we actually try and prepare a good first impression.
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That is fair, but its very niche used like that, considering our broader reputation and our position on the council of Eight Peaks would open doors more conveniently.
 
veekie said:
That is fair, but its very niche used like that, considering our broader reputation and our position on the council of Eight Peaks would open doors more conveniently.
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Maybe, though I can easily imagine folks being indifferent in Bretonnia till we start taking very enthusiastic walks.

Its real shine, and in my opinion why we never see it since we're racking up frequent high flier miles like its going out of style, is amongst the common person of a place. Like you pointed out, its the Vigilante option or the Robin Hood option, and those folks are friends of the Common Man and their idols.
 
veekie said:
That is fair, but its very niche used like that, considering our broader reputation and our position on the council of Eight Peaks would open doors more conveniently.
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Sure, but ultimately Mathilde is not a glory-seeking vigilante who seeks to (potentially dishonestly) convince people she's being selfless - so that aspect of Ranald's story is not going to be relevant very often unless she starts behaving differently.
 
BungieONI said:
Maybe, though I can easily imagine folks being indifferent in Bretonnia till we start taking very enthusiastic walks.

Its real shine, and in my opinion why we never see it since we're racking up frequent high flier miles like its going out of style, is amongst the common person of a place. Like you pointed out, its the Vigilante option or the Robin Hood option, and those folks are friends of the Common Man and their idols.
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I feel like we'd get a lot more use out of the Protector if operated more in the Empire because we're either in high-standing with the locals (you can't tell me Mathilde will ever have to pay for drinks around K8Ps) or as an envoy where our position and our association with Belegar open the doors we need.

It's when we're trying to break ground on a broad basis in a new region where Protector opens a lot of options. Need to make diplomatic inroads into Tilea Or Estalia? Find the local problem and solve it. Need to give credence to your presence in say Kislev? It can probably make it happen. Bretonnia I actually expect would be pretty open to talking to Mathilde.

She's a female magic user, which their culture tends to associate those as figures of respect. She's a knight who earned said Knighthood for valorous deeds in service to her lord. (Why hello Knight of the Realm what a coincidence). She's martially skilled, and while she does skulk around it's kinda easy to couch it in terms of "Of course, all the better to ensure a glorious and chivalrous duel against the perfidious foe who dare leads such cretins". Which I would expect a Mathilde who's using preparation to lean on her learning rather than diplomacy to do so. I think Boney once said something to the effect of "It's easy to think of Mathilde as open minded, because she's trained in such a way where she appears such" and I think that sort of mentality would have her trying to represent herself in Bretonnian cultural concepts she couldn't give a rat's ass about herself. If anything, I think the problem would be she's checking too many Bretonnian boxes. It would be one thing if she was a foreign knight who happened to be okay as far as they were concerned. But a foreign knight female magic user is kinda a weird blurring of societal roles they've probably don't have much context for.
 
I think Protector is particularly good this fight because of all those Border Princes showing up as mercenaries(Anton, HOW?), and that gives us a hefty "saved your bacon" diplomatic advantage to the ties with Eight Peaks' nearest neighbors without spending a whole bunch of dedicated action on what are likely to be somewhat transient polities.

The more of them we win over the better off the Undumgi are likely to be.
 
veekie said:
I think Protector is particularly good this fight because of all those Border Princes showing up as mercenaries(Anton, HOW?), and that gives us a hefty "saved your bacon" diplomatic advantage to the ties with Eight Peaks' nearest neighbors without spending a whole bunch of dedicated action on what are likely to be somewhat transient polities.

The more of them we win over the better off the Undumgi are likely to be.
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And if the vote was going to go for fighting with the sellswords, Protector would be a solid choice. It'd cement our leadership over them during the battle and help us gain influence among them afterwards. As-is, however, Protector is only going to boost our Dwarf Favor gain when we already have 15 in the bank that we don't yet have a use for.
 
Derpmind said:
And if the vote was going to go for fighting with the sellswords, Protector would be a solid choice. It'd cement our leadership over them during the battle and help us gain influence among them afterwards. As-is, however, Protector is only going to boost our Dwarf Favor gain when we already have 15 in the bank that we don't yet have a use for.
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It's not like murdering the bosses of the enemies the sellswords are fighting doesn't apply as protecting them.

EDIT: As for Favor, pick literally any skill and get the best dwarf in the world at it as your teacher. Bam, Favor spent.
 
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Personally I feel Protector is good whenever we're going to be doing some impressive shit (Alkhard), planning on helping some group in particular (like messing with Mors to help the We), or when we're doing something important that might normally not be properly appreciated i.e. fighting as a grey mage in a war since if we do our job right no one will now we did anything at all which is neat but not conductive to getting a lot of credit.
 
NotteBoy97 said:
Personally I feel Protector is good whenever we're going to be doing some impressive shit (Alkhard), planning on helping some group in particular (like messing with Mors to help the We), or when we're doing something important that might normally not be properly appreciated i.e. fighting as a grey mage in a war since if we do our job right no one will now we did anything at all which is neat but not conductive to getting a lot of credit.
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Pretty much. Its ideal if we plan to do low difficulty leadership assassination in a warzone, nobody would know otherwise except that the orcs are supremely uncoordinated and demoralized.

Derpmind said:
And if the vote was going to go for fighting with the sellswords, Protector would be a solid choice. It'd cement our leadership over them during the battle and help us gain influence among them afterwards. As-is, however, Protector is only going to boost our Dwarf Favor gain when we already have 15 in the bank that we don't yet have a use for.
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If we were fighting with the sellswords we wouldn't need Protector, they could see it first hand, and only be a bit less impressed than with the Protector.
Fucking up the enemy ahead of them is what Protector is good for, nobody sees it, its DEFINITELY helping them without question, and so they know we did it and for them.
 
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