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Do we really want to study battlefield magic? I believe we have never seen one being successfully cast. All of them were either counterspelled or caused their casters to explode. The closest thing to a successful application was Kragg's Doom Anvil which (A) Is specifically made be to be as reliable as possible by stripping the agency out of the winds. (B) Still developed a hairline fracture.

Would this really be a good use of Mathilde's time?
 
Do we really want to study battlefield magic? I believe we have never seen one being successfully cast. All of them were either counterspelled or caused their casters to explode. The closest thing to a successful application was Kragg's Doom Anvil which (A) Is specifically made be to be as reliable as possible by stripping the agency out of the winds. (B) Still developed a hairline fracture.

Would this really be a good use of Mathilde's time?
It would increase our magic score, so even if we never used it it'd still be pretty useful, yes.

Also, as the Liber Mortis shows, it's generally considered a good idea to always be holding something back for a rainy day; sanctioned magic would be a lot more useful than unsanctioned magic, in that regard.
 
[X] [SPIDER] They are foreign allies and thus the responsibility of Prince Kazrik.
[x] [KRAGG] Hit Hard
[x] Tower of Utter Neutrality - with rune and material and a great deal of care, make your Tower completely magically neutral. Large bonus to studying anything magical, small bonus to studying everything else from higher Magesight contrast. 250gc, 5 Dwarf favours
 
Do we really want to study battlefield magic? I believe we have never seen one being successfully cast. All of them were either counterspelled or caused their casters to explode. The closest thing to a successful application was Kragg's Doom Anvil which (A) Is specifically made be to be as reliable as possible by stripping the agency out of the winds. (B) Still developed a hairline fracture.

Would this really be a good use of Mathilde's time?

I mean yes we do want to learn battlefield magic, but that's because it's useful to be able to break it out in times of direst need. Also just learning the spells and then not using them would still improve our magic which has ancillary benefits across the board.
 
Do we really want to study battlefield magic? I believe we have never seen one being successfully cast. All of them were either counterspelled or caused their casters to explode. The closest thing to a successful application was Kragg's Doom Anvil which (A) Is specifically made be to be as reliable as possible by stripping the agency out of the winds. (B) Still developed a hairline fracture.

Would this really be a good use of Mathilde's time?
Even if we don't use it knowing it seems like a good idea from a theory stand point.
It could help get our magic up to 8 or even higher.

Also those were the result of Nat 1 miscasts from what I can tell.
 
Do we really want to study battlefield magic? I believe we have never seen one being successfully cast. All of them were either counterspelled or caused their casters to explode. The closest thing to a successful application was Kragg's Doom Anvil which (A) Is specifically made be to be as reliable as possible by stripping the agency out of the winds. (B) Still developed a hairline fracture.

Would this really be a good use of Mathilde's time?
Yes, because Smoke and Mirrors can be cast once (generating one miscast chance) and then on every subsequent Fiendishly Complex spell lets her reposition and if needed get away by breaking engagement without a miscast chance. Or teleport in to save someone.

And yet more applications.

Its worth remembering that the Battle Magics that have been counterspelled were counterspelled by Mathilde and that any spell can be counter spelled.
 
Do we really want to study battlefield magic? I believe we have never seen one being successfully cast. All of them were either counterspelled or caused their casters to explode. The closest thing to a successful application was Kragg's Doom Anvil which (A) Is specifically made be to be as reliable as possible by stripping the agency out of the winds. (B) Still developed a hairline fracture.

Would this really be a good use of Mathilde's time?
I have no particular desire to aim for it, but if the opportunity comes our way we should go for it if the costs aren't top high. Having the ability to affect the entire battle at once is extremely valuable for all its potential downsides.
 
The other option is to go in and claim as much Clan Mors territory as we can for ourselves before they die.
To what end? It's not like we need more territory at the moment. I'm leery of overextension, to say nothing of opening up those additional fronts on all sides.
Also just learning the spells and then not using them
Even if we don't use it knowing it seems like a good idea from a theory stand point.
It could help get our magic up to 8 or even higher.

This isn't directly applicable to Battle Magic- as in we don't need to learn any to boost our Magic up +1. And we're not learning seven battle magic spells any time before Matriarch.
Also those were the result of Nat 1 miscasts from what I can tell.
I'd be staggered if a natural 1 on battle magic led to anything as benign as a cracked anvil.
I'm pretty sure Boney has said out best odds of casting it would be around 50/50, and miscasts can be worse for the caster and surroundings than the successful spell is for enemies.

Its never to be used lightly.
 
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[x] [KRAGG] Hit Hard
[x] Tower of Utter Neutrality - with rune and material and a great deal of care, make your Tower completely magically neutral. Large bonus to studying anything magical, small bonus to studying everything else from higher Magesight contrast. 250gc, 5 Dwarf favours.
[X] [SPIDER] They are foreign allies and thus the responsibility of Prince Kazrik
 
I mean, I wasn't super serious. But in practice the quest has shown repeatedly how trivial it is to fuck battlefield magic up, through enemy action or otherwise, and I am not sure it's worth it to actually cast it without layers of redundancy that the dwarfs have and everyone else lacks.
 
Meanwhile on Ulgu Papers: Scientists Implant False Memories in Birds to Teach Them Songs They've Never Heard

We dueled a Grey Magister during our promotion exams, and he was invisible to us.
Hey @BoneyM, can you confirm that the Magister we were unable to find with our magesight was is fact under Invisibility? Or was that just a really strong Take No Heed Mastery or something?
It seems to me to be pretty obvious, considering the more magical races have very high Magesighr prevalence, any magical means of stealth MUST inherently conceal its own signature as part of its function
So what you're saying is that to beat them we should either :
  • become a massive unkillable frontline monster and break their morale by slaughtering their frontlines enough that they break, run and leave K8P entirely?
  • find and kill all breeders and/or leaders in the area so that they eventually give up and leave?
Less give up and leave, more like attritioning them down once that happens, because their society is structured around massive attrition and available manpower in the lower ranks, and once you cut the flow off, they're PROBABLY going to fight like cornered rats.

I don't think they have a celibacy oath. They just tend to get distracted. Mathilde just needs to have a reasoned cost-balance analysis agreed for each sexual encounter.
It looks a lot like the opposite end of the Ulgu problem. The Ulgu issue is that its pretty hard to keep your partner interested in a relationship because the forgettable Arcane Mark means that unless they connected with you emotionally and intellectually...well its hard on a relationship.

The Chamon problem is that they get super logical and unemotional, so you need to connect with them intellectually and materially instead.

Hmm...seducing a Gold Magister may have certain resemblence to Dwarf courtship rituals.
So a bit of a silly question here and I might just be assuming things that are wrong, but here goes:
It seems a bit to me as if some or a lot of the people voting to 'Hit Hard' as far as the Kragg-vote goes are voting for it because they know the setting well and have something concrete in mind for what Kragg could do with this.
Which is perfectly fine of course, but more specifically I have seen the 'cannonball rune' mentioned more than twice. Does this thing actually create noise? Because that seems like it would clash with our current MO.
As far as I can tell no more noise than hitting somebody really hard. Keeping in mind Kragg's weapon is a hammer, any impact with a hammer against a resistant surface will make a lot of noise. A sword, unless used to mordhau, should not be making a lot of noise, however hard it hits, unless the sword can't penetrate.

Not that cleaving through armor is going to be quiet of course, but anything we could currently kill quietly with a normal Greatsword should still die just as quietly.
Its all the OTHER things thats going to make an unholy racket.

Regarding Johann… still don't want to employ him. Cool as he might be he is a dedicated specialist. His magic and apparent skills are focussed in a rather narrow area. He might be better than Max at things but the solutions he offers are still the same as what Max offers.
Johann is a good combatant and a reasonable diplomat. He is starting to like Dwarfs and is no longer lying to them. Thus I believe we can safely cut him loose without worrying he will screw things up.
Let's switch him out for a non-Chamon Wizard and diversify our tool box.
Uh...are we looking at the same sheet?
Johann has Tale of Metal and Breach the Unknown for investigating stuff, which is amazing for reverse engineering and material analysis, especially magical and technomagical objects which can be dangerous to examine otherwise.

He's a very broadly applicable subordinate, if we need a fight, he's specialized heavily into being as near unkillable as he could get, with basically every Chamon defensive spell AND a Magic boost for the purpose of elemental Chamon spells(which would be the defensive spells).

If we need a diplomat, we want him coming along to faceman for us because Mathilde's diplomacy is mostly standing there being spooky. He's got a decent case for having diplomacy higher than much of the Council.

If we need a scout he's actually almost as good as we are, though without magic for the job.

If we need an analyst, he has the spell for "give me the datasheet". Not much good for original research however.

By contrast, Max makes a good research assistant and secretary, but his skills make him a mediocre combatant and his non-academic skills are limited.

If I believed Max would accept it I'd probably put Max full time on writing papers we dictate to him(which probably wouldn't bode well for him making Magister though, unless he's getting there by crafting skills), with Johann on the actual Investigating or Poke Spoopy Shit.

We DO want to add more subordinates, the big deal with Johann is that he actually gives us a Mathilde-strength action.
Just to be sure we aren't actually going to keep quiet about the Eshin assassin right? We might not tell exactly what happened but 'there are Eshin about' is rather critical info.
No need to worry, its kind of a no brainer item to bring up.
I don't particularly want to run through out resources in the way we have been, and college favors are really useful for both towers and the cause of eventually learning some battle magic.
We got more gold than we can deal with, and even more pouring in every turn.
Library expenses is also likely to drop as we simply start running out of novel topics which are relevant to tasks and start getting tasks which fall under already known topics
 
Yes, because Smoke and Mirrors can be cast once (generating one miscast chance) and then on every subsequent Fiendishly Complex spell lets her reposition and if needed get away by breaking engagement without a miscast chance. Or teleport in to save someone.

And yet more applications.

Its worth remembering that the Battle Magics that have been counterspelled were counterspelled by Mathilde and that any spell can be counter spelled.
I don't think that's how smoke and mirrors work. You don't need to cast it solo before making it apart of fiendishly complex sprels, making it a uniquely safe battlemagic spell.
 
[X] [SPIDER] They are military assets and thus the responsibility of Dreng.

[X] [KRAGG] Hit Hard

[X] Tower of Utter Neutrality - with rune and material and a great deal of care, make your Tower completely magically neutral. Large bonus to studying anything magical, small bonus to studying everything else from higher Magesight contrast. 250gc, 5 Dwarf favours.
[X] Tower of Serenity - Perfect temperature, perfect level of background noise, perfect conditions to get those bloody papers written. Or for someone else to do it for you. It even has a rune to keep your drink warm. Every turn, writing or dictating 1 paper costs no actions. 300gc, 3 College favours, 1 Dwarf favour.

[X] [ENCHANTMENT] Grounding Rod
[X] [ENCHANTMENT] Burning Vengeance.
[X] [SHOPPING] A Marksdwarf Pistol.
 
I mean, I wasn't super serious. But in practice the quest has shown repeatedly how trivial it is to fuck battlefield magic up, through enemy action or otherwise, and I am not sure it's worth it to actually cast it without layers of redundancy that the dwarfs have and everyone else lacks.
We just need a Grounding rod.
 
I don't think that's how smoke and mirrors work. You don't need to cast it solo before making it apart of fiendishly complex sprels, making it a uniquely safe battlemagic spell.
Does it? I thought you had to cast it first, equivalent to a teleport buff, before it started applying to FC spells.

Hmm. Got a quote for it?
 
At the very least, we want our lore attribute battlemagic.

Between it and the illusion spell, we have free perfectly safe, low key teleportation
Combination of Invisibility, hard-hitting rune greatsword and teleportation is deadly.

It depends on interpretation as to when spell limitation applies, but consider this:
- Cast invisibility.
- Universal confusion / Smoke and Mirrors to teleport in.
- Hit boss with Rune Weapom.
- Substance of Shadows / Smoke and Mirrors to jump into shadows and dematerialize.

Within 10 seconds of engagement the boss is down, confusions around and noone can say exactly what the hell happened. Mathilde is invisible whole time.
 
Battle magic is good to have for serious 'oh crap' situations, but isn't something that should be regularly relied upon. Most of the time lesser spells will be more than sufficient and a whole lot safer.
 
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I expect an "oh crap" situation at any time to be honest. A year has been plenty of time for all the bad guys to get organized and launch their plans to go after the dwarves. Probably get an "oh crap" no less than once every couple of years and as many as once a year here at K8P.
 
Does it? I thought you had to cast it first, equivalent to a teleport buff, before it started applying to FC spells.

Hmm. Got a quote for it?
There wording of the spell, mainly.
U / Smoke and Mirrors: The mark of a Grey Battle Wizard is the ability to weave teleportation cantrips into other spells they cast. They appear to jump around the battlefield at will, hopping anywhere within short range with every spell they cast.
- Can be tied into a Fiendishly Complex or Battle Magic spell to teleport without any additional risk of miscast. Can also be cast on its own. Range is limited to line of sight and about a hundred yards or so.
It's a clear either/or, eiter it is cast standalone, or cast as a part of another spell, no pre-casting mechanics, each casting instance is self-contained.

There was a WOG clarifying the matter further (and a lot of jokes in the thread about why exactly using dread aspect makes it safer), but hunting it from my phone while in subway is pain.

Can hunt it when I get home, if it will still be needed.
 
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This isn't directly applicable to Battle Magic- as in we don't need to learn any to boost our Magic up +1. And we're not learning seven battle magic spells any time before Matriarch.
Neatly enough, there are exactly seven Ulgul battle spells.

But, if you cound MAP and the Lore Attribute, that's "only" five we need to learn. I figure we can skip Steed of Shadows and maybe Pendulum or Withering or Enfeebling.

I really want Smoke and Mirrors for those delicious FC-danger teleports.

Beyond that, I'd shoot for Pit of Shades, no better "well, fuck everything then" spell in the Ulgu repertoire.
I despair at our rate of library expenditure.
I'm with you, the cheaper plans are spending like a fifth of our remaining cash.
 
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