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That terrifies me.

[X] [LIBRARY] No purchase.
No seriously that's horrible. This ulgu necromancy would, no matter its form, be as bad as necromancy in moral impact. I can't believe that people really want to go through with it.
It uses Dhar, and only evil has ever come from - or could come from - Dhar. Everyone, including you, should know this.

Man, the number of people down for using Dhar even in the most extreme circumstances is single digit at most. The contingent of people who actually want to use it for cool stuff seems to be limited to me, @Omegahugger, @Guile and a handful of others.

Compare this to the crowds of people that leap to talking about no Dhar at all never ever in a million years, no matter what, the second it's even mentioned. Getting startled like a frightened rabbit based on one guy is a serious overreaction.

This is not a sensible worry. Chill, yeah?
 
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Also, there's the escalation feedback loop that has people talking about fighting bloodthirsters and dragons and whatnot, which I would really like to not get into because it seems like a near-infinite sink of gear upgrades and ludicrous training.
Gotta upgrade to Purple drops to go on this Raid! Get that DPS up.
 
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All of the divine lore is also there for the folks who want to try to emulate Nehekharan Theurgy. For that we'd need as much divine lore as arcane.
 
It uses Dhar, and only evil has ever come from - or could come from - Dhar. Everyone knows this.
Man, the number of people down for using Dhar even in the most extreme circumstances is single digit at most. The contingent of people who actually want to use it for cool stuff seems to be limited to me, @Omegahugger, @Guile and a handful of others.

Compare this to the crowds of people that leap to talking about no Dhar at all never ever in a million years, no matter what, the second it's even mentioned. Getting startled like a frightened rabbit based on one guy is a serious overreaction.

This is not a sensible worry. Chill, yeah?
The only one talking about using Dhar for ulgu-necromancy so far was @HanEmpire. No one else wants to.
Sorry about mentioning Dhar and scaring people. I don't know what people intend to do with Liber Mortis since I've been too busy to follow the thread. I just went with an extreme conclusion from what I saw.
 
I don't mind if we buy an amusingly large library. We can always share the books with everyone else, maybe even start up a literacy program or something for those who can't read.

It's a charitable cause really.

A possible setup for our library.
Free: The basic level that everyone has by default. They can come into the library and read the unrestricted books but can't take anything out. Obviously no dirty hands, bringing in food or anything else that can damage the books.
Membership: A payable fee to let members take out unrestricted books. If you want to read the romance books at home you'll need this.
Premium Membership: Gives access to the restricted books, the only way to get this level of access is to pay in Mathilde Favour or have an important position such as Magister.

For next turn though we should really think about some items from the College. A grounding rod would be a good idea, dispel scrolls are decent, and of course various activatable enchantments such as Wings of Heaven. Permanent passive effects seem like a bad idea but something that lasts for just a little while should be fine.
 
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I don't mind if we buy an amusingly large library. We can always share the books with everyone else, maybe even start up a literacy program or something for those who can't read.

It's a charitable cause really.

For next turn though we should really think about some items from the College. A grounding rod would be a good idea, dispel scrolls are decent, and of course various activatable enchantments such as Wings of Heaven. Permanent passive effects seem like a bad idea but something that lasts for just a little while should be fine.
I can't help but feel like we're set on Dispels with the Spelleater Rune on the belt and Waaaghbane, and enchanted items are very tricky with the belt and seed and ulgu and whatnot.

I'm down for buying an earthing rod and a couple of spells (either scrolls or lectures) to work on during slow turns. Didn't Master Reggie say we should get Illusion down? We really should, that thing's amazing.
 
It uses Dhar, and only evil has ever come from - or could come from - Dhar. Everyone, including you, should know this.
Our goal was never to use any form of necromancy.

There are two main things we're aiming for here: first, to get fact-checking and an alternative perspective on the Morrite lore from the LM (yes, this version was made by a genius and doesn't have intentional traps, but it's possible that modern Morrite lore has discovered SOME new things about the practical effects of necromancy and oversight is still possible for a genius that was doing this all on a time crunch) and second, to provide cover/alternative explanations in case we need to use some of the insights discovered in combating the undead.
 
Dhar is bad. The circumstances where its use is preferable over the alternative is pretty much limited to things like 'the Everchosen is riding through the heartlands of the Empire with the Emperor's head on a spike', 'you have five minutes to stop a Skaven mutagenic bomb that will kill all Dwarves everywhere', or (judging by the current vote) 'Mathilde is about to run out of romance novels'.

It's horrific stuff, and there is no known way to use it safely. And considering what it is, there is in all likelihood simply no way to use it safely, full stop.
 
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I have to admit that I feel like the large number of people who don't want to advise about dwarven matters should consider how to square that with being the advisor to a dwarven king.

If Mathilde is going to do her job properly she has to be willing to do that. It's literally her role, particularly as Learning adviser, as that (knowledges) applies to almost literally every decision he takes.

Also, this is something that Belegar will be making the decision on, whatever she said. We're not, as someone suggested, trying to take that choice away from him. Mathilde can be very helpful to him there by, at least, explaining the benefits to human and halfling morale of something like a reforging to create a symbol of the new Karak Eight Peaks.

This is an important factor. We're not just talking about a symbol for the dwarves here, but for all three races that call the new Karak their home. That's why I'd say that it should be reforged and something given to all three races to represent how humans, halflings and dwarves worked together to refound it.

Karak Eight Peaks is no longer a purely dwarf hold, and the only non-dwarven member of the council refusing to speak to inform her peers of the interests/nature of the non-dwarves here about something that impacts them is not a good precedent. It suggests that there are more 'dwarf only' matters that Mathilde should be recused from. That's something that other members of the Council could well expect on future, which we wouldn't want.

Belegar has multiple constituencies to appease now, as we should not be suggesting that the only one that has the right to an opinion about such things are the dwarves. How the narrative will play with attracting more imperial human and halfling migrants to replace casualties is arguably just as or more important to the long term viability of the hold. Mathilde may even have a better idea than Belegar how imperial dwarves would react.
 
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In general, yes, we're being paid to advise. The spiders, here.
In the somewhat self-interest-conflicted matter of what to do with ancestral gromril... I think we don't have that obligation.
 
I have to admit that I feel like the large number of people who don't want to advise about dwarven matters should consider how to square that with being the advisor to a dwarven king.

If Mathilde is going to do her job properly she has to be willing to do that. It's literally her role, particularly as Learning adviser.
And as a Learning advisor, she's expected to advise on Learning related matters, that's all. On other matters, she can advise if she wants but it's not expected of her, and the armour just isn't a Learning matter.
 
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be returned to the Hold it was stolen from, to build strong ties among the Karaz Ankor.
[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.

Man, asking for a dwarven artefact and powerful tangible symbol of the success of the reclamation for the rest of the Karaz Ankor to be reforged in our honor feels super cringe. That's the kind of honor (if we can ever be worthy of it) that you most certainly don't ask for or even suggest at wanting.
 
On the Dhar discussion, I admit I'm curious whether we can manipulate individual winds with Ulgu and whether we can turn that into Ulgu-based High Magic but that's like super end game stuff we definitely shouldn't practice without an elven mage there to supervise.
 
And as a Learning advisor, she's expected to advise on Learning related matters, that's all. On other matters, she can advise if she wants but it's not expected of her, and the armour just isn't a Learning matter.

It's also a Learning matter, as Mathilde can use her knowledge of humans and halflings to give him information that would be useful to him to know to inform his decision making.

Remember that Belegar didn't even know what a wizard was. He comes from a background of immense ignorance about the Empire, which includes both humans and halflings. It is part of Mathilde's job as Learning advisor of a multi-racial hold to help plug that gap in his knowledge.

Man, asking for a dwarven artefact and powerful tangible symbol of the success of the reclamation for the rest of the Karaz Ankor to be reforged in our honor feels super cringe. That's the kind of honor (if we can ever be worthy of it) that you most certainly don't ask for or even suggest at wanting.

We're not asking it to be reforged in Mathidle's honour. That's a straw man that seriously mischaracterises the option. It could easily be reforged into gifts for the hoods that supported Belegar, whether or not Mathilde gets a piece as a leader of one of the groups who came to help.
 
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And as a Learning advisor, she's expected to advise on Learning related matters, that's all. On other matters, she can advise if she wants but it's not expected of her, and the armour just isn't a Learning matter.
No... but the consequences of her actions in the official capacity of Court Wizard to Belegar Ironhammer is as is the image and message her service to her current liege lord creates. Both of which this pertains to. To wash our hands of it is significantly less a noble act of humility than people than people are arguing.
 
I have to admit that I feel like the large number of people who don't want to advise about dwarven matters should consider how to square that with being the advisor to a dwarven king.

If Mathilde is going to do her job properly she has to be willing to do that. It's literally her role, particularly as Learning adviser.

Also, this is something that Belegar will be making the decision on, whatever she said. We're not, as someone suggested, trying to take that choice away from him. Mathilde can be very helpful to him there by, at least, explaining the benefits to human and halfling morale of something like a reforging to create a symbol of the new Karak Eight Peaks.

This is an important factor. We're not just talking about a symbol for the dwarves here, but for all three races that call the new Karak their home. That's why I'd say that it should be reforged and something given to all three races to represent how humans, halflings and dwarves worked together to refound it.

Karak Eight Peaks is no longer a purely dwarf hold, and the only non-dwarven member of the council refusing to speak to inform her peers of the interests/nature of the non-dwarves here about something that impacts them is not a good precedent. It suggests that there are more 'dwarf only' matters that Mathilde should be recused from. That's something that other members of the Council could well expect on future, which we wouldn't want.
I'm not a die-hard share no opinion on what to do with the armor campaigner, but I feel like advising the Dwarves on a matter that is primarily about Dwarven politics is outside of our area of competence twice over (Diplo is our worst stat AND we're only just really beginning to pick up actual information about their internal politics). Between that and the fact that as far as the Grey Order and Empire (who we owe more than a bit of loyalty to both for moral and practical reasons) are concerned a major part of our job here is to avoid causing messes so that they can reap the benefits of the dwarves as a whole seeing humans as better allies, I do see staying out of that discussion as a reasonable choice.
 
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Naw, go back and reread the skaven scouting action. We seem to be MORE likely to be like 'Oh hey, cat eyes in the darkness, better follow it' into some ridiculously lucky contrivance than we were before. Mathilde didn't notice that one coming at all with any special divine senses.

Yeah, I was thinking less about subtle signs and more about emergency panic button moments like when we nearly had a shyish sword explode us haha. My half-worries are basically dispelled by themselves anyway, given Ranald could just give Mathilde like a divine nudge to the same end if it were gonna be an actual problem.
 
It's Dhar. It's bad for reasons beyond morale. Its nature is evil, and only evil can come of it. If you think different from that then you're wrong, and you should really start knowing better.
Now that's clearly untrue there's a lot of good stuff we could do with Dhar the massive pulsating asterisk attached to those things might be an issue.
 
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