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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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picklepikkl said:
Out of curiosity, is this the sort of thing that an enterprising Wizard might reasonably wear a robe over? Not necessarily to hide the armor, I imagine that it would still be very visible in silhouette, especially when moving. But just because robes are part of one's look, you know?
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Okay, but just imagine a cultist looking at us with our full armor, witch hunter's hat and greatsword, and assuming that we can't do magic. Then casting a spell and being utterly befuddled when we counter their spell and cut them in half.

Full armor is the best way to pretend we're not a sneaky wizard, its the ultimate misdirection.
 
Personally I think that the Warship would do more to keep Mathilde safe than the armor, if only because it means that we will almost always have access to something that can deal with threats to her.

After all the ship means that we will practically always have an artillery battery on call to nuke an enemy (which is cool at hell) and could also have a personal goon squad that can be deployed to back us up (which is also cool).

Plus there is the Knightbringer that we already have, I can imagine that we'd be able to set a few of those up and attach them to the ship with the command to murderize anything attacking the ship.
 
I don't like the armor unless we enchant it ourselves.

So instead of asking for it now I would ask to examine it later with Collage Favor so we can make our own.

I don't think we can make our flaying tower of doom? tou you guys can correct me on that.
 
I like the ship a lot cause it opens up a shitload of tactical options. Like there is a Dwarf Engineer actively working on developing Air Calvary, we can hit him up and get a fuck ton of mileage out of it.
 
MiracleGrow said:
I like the ship a lot cause it opens up a shitload of tactical options. Like there is a Dwarf Engineer actively working on developing Air Calvary, we can hit him up and get a fuck ton of mileage out of it.
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Tons of strategic and tactical options. Like to use the Spiriti of Grungni from canon, during one of the Gotrek and Felix novels it was planned to be used as a blockade runner to relieve a city that is under siege by chaos forces and bring extra supplies & cannons from Nuln.

We could easily do something similar.
 
French Cowboy said:
Okay, but just imagine a cultist looking at us with our full armor, witch hunter's hat and greatsword, and assuming that we can't do magic. Then casting a spell and being utterly befuddled when we counter their spell and cut them in half.

Full armor is the best way to pretend we're not a sneaky wizard, its the ultimate misdirection.
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...I had forgotten our hat because I'm an idiot. Yeah, okay, I think leaning into completely misdirecting people we fight is both very Ulgu and very funny.

***

Some people have brought up that it is a shame that if we get the Armor of von Tarnus, it closes off the Armor slot from being occupied by We-silk robes that Mathilde enchanted herself, and that is true. Yes, it's technically true that we could enchant a set of We-silk robes for situations where we won't wear armor but still want protection, but it's unrealistic to think that we'll ever vote to spend the AP on doing that, so that would be a specious argument. I acknowledge that this is a real cost of this choice.

However: I think we still gain something significant to the character by picking this. Look at the rest of Mathilde's kit: Branulhune, her belt, the Staff of Mistery, her utility items, even Ranald's Coin and the Sword of Gazul if you want to take an expansive view of Mathilde's kit. All of them are recent manufacture: new wonders brought into the world as part of the Age of Mathilde. The Armor of von Tarnus, though... that's got history. That was made by one of the legendary first generation of Collegiate Wizards, student of Teclis and peer to Volans. That's something you can buy in the wargame for 35 points; that's something with lore, something people recognize the name of. I think it's really cool and meaningful for Mathilde to have reached the point in her development where she has been entrusted with one of the named artifacts of the setting: and not just any named artifact, but one forged by the Colleges of Magic which she values so highly. To be a keeper of part of the Colleges' legacy, in a very literal sense. I think that would mean a lot to her.

(Also I think it would be dope as fuck to be wearing the work of the greatest Collegiate enchanter and the work of the greatest dwarf runelord at the same time.)
 
picklepikkl said:
...I had forgotten our hat because I'm an idiot. Yeah, okay, I think leaning into completely misdirecting people we fight is both very Ulgu and very funny.

***

Some people have brought up that it is a shame that if we get the Armor of von Tarnus, it closes off the Armor slot from being occupied by We-silk robes that Mathilde enchanted herself, and that is true. Yes, it's technically true that we could enchant a set of We-silk robes for situations where we won't wear armor but still want protection, but it's unrealistic to think that we'll ever vote to spend the AP on doing that, so that would be a specious argument. I acknowledge that this is a real cost of this choice.

However: I think we still gain something significant to the character by picking this. Look at the rest of Mathilde's kit: Branulhune, her belt, the Staff of Mistery, her utility items, even Ranald's Coin and the Sword of Gazul if you want to take an expansive view of Mathilde's kit. All of them are recent manufacture: new wonders brought into the world as part of the Age of Mathilde. The Armor of von Tarnus, though... that's got history. That was made by one of the legendary first generation of Collegiate Wizards, student of Teclis and peer to Volans. That's something you can buy in the wargame for 35 points; that's something with lore, something people recognize the name of. I think it's really cool and meaningful for Mathilde to have reached the point in her development where she has been entrusted with one of the named artifacts of the setting: and not just any named artifact, but one forged by the Colleges of Magic which she values so highly. To be a keeper of part of the Colleges' legacy, in a very literal sense. I think that would mean a lot to her.

(Also I think it would be dope as fuck to be wearing the work of the greatest Collegiate enchanter and the work of the greatest dwarf runelord at the same time.)
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I think I'd be more okay with it if we hadn't spent literal years waiting for the availability of We-Silk and hyping it up, and right at the moment before we can make them a reality, this pops up and we decide not to do it after all.
 
Tasoli said:
I don't like the armor unless we enchant it ourselves.

So instead of asking for it now I would ask to examine it later with Collage Favor so we can make our own.

I don't think we can make our flaying tower of doom? tou you guys can correct me on that.
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We also can't duplicate the armor. See here and here for my sourcing on that, and here for good measure.
ReImagined said:
I think I'd be more okay with it if we hadn't spent literal years waiting for the availability of We-Silk and hyping it up, and right at the moment before we can make them a reality, this pops up and we decide not to do it after all.
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Sure. Like I said, it's a real cost. I just think there's also a real gain.
 
(As an aside, having looked at the plan again, I feel the need to say that it is hilarious that under 'elite forces' deployable from the Prismatic Wanderer are listed as examples imperial knights, Ironbreakers, Eonir master guerrillas - and scribes from our library. Wonderful mental image; hats off to you for that one, Parabola!)
 
picklepikkl said:
...I had forgotten our hat because I'm an idiot. Yeah, okay, I think leaning into completely misdirecting people we fight is both very Ulgu and very funny.

***

Some people have brought up that it is a shame that if we get the Armor of von Tarnus, it closes off the Armor slot from being occupied by We-silk robes that Mathilde enchanted herself, and that is true. Yes, it's technically true that we could enchant a set of We-silk robes for situations where we won't wear armor but still want protection, but it's unrealistic to think that we'll ever vote to spend the AP on doing that, so that would be a specious argument. I acknowledge that this is a real cost of this choice.

However: I think we still gain something significant to the character by picking this. Look at the rest of Mathilde's kit: Branulhune, her belt, the Staff of Mistery, her utility items, even Ranald's Coin and the Sword of Gazul if you want to take an expansive view of Mathilde's kit. All of them are recent manufacture: new wonders brought into the world as part of the Age of Mathilde. The Armor of von Tarnus, though... that's got history. That was made by one of the legendary first generation of Collegiate Wizards, student of Teclis and peer to Volans. That's something you can buy in the wargame for 35 points; that's something with lore, something people recognize the name of. I think it's really cool and meaningful for Mathilde to have reached the point in her development where she has been entrusted with one of the named artifacts of the setting: and not just any named artifact, but one forged by the Colleges of Magic which she values so highly. To be a keeper of part of the Colleges' legacy, in a very literal sense. I think that would mean a lot to her.

(Also I think it would be dope as fuck to be wearing the work of the greatest Collegiate enchanter and the work of the greatest dwarf runelord at the same time.)
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It's history, but it's not our history, it's not even our College's history, it's a very solid mechanical upgrade and for that reason alone I wouldn't hate it, but thematic it is not.
 
DragonParadox said:
It's history, but it's not our history, it's not even our College's history, it's a very solid mechanical upgrade and for that reason alone I wouldn't hate it, but thematic it is not.
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Only if you view the Colleges as eight institutions in a trenchcoat and not as one institution in eight manifestations. Which, you know, is valid. It's just not the way I see it or would prefer Mathilde to see it.

(Plus, like, she learned greatswording from Greatswords, so wearing the armor of a wizard who was also trained by the Greatswords works on that level too. There's a lot of thematic resonance here.)
 
Nimbus said:
(As an aside, having looked at the plan again, I feel the need to say that it is hilarious that under 'elite forces' deployable from the Prismatic Wanderer are listed as examples imperial knights, Ironbreakers, Eonir master guerrillas - and scribes from our library. Wonderful mental image; hats off to you for that one, Parabola!)
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Imagine our ship pulling up to a place and then the scribes fast roping down to quickly copy books and the like before anyone has any idea what is going on.
 
Nimbus said:
(As an aside, having looked at the plan again, I feel the need to say that it is hilarious that under 'elite forces' deployable from the Prismatic Wanderer are listed as examples imperial knights, Ironbreakers, Eonir master guerrillas - and scribes from our library. Wonderful mental image; hats off to you for that one, Parabola!)
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Thank you, but I can't take full credit on this. I mean, the action to recruit the scribes was literally "[ ] Go about recruiting an army of scribes so you can start copying entire libraries of material." It's just a continuation of that joke - a joke that got validated back when we copied the Library of Nuln, since they traveled there with their silverspear pikes.
 
picklepikkl said:
However: I think we still gain something significant to the character by picking this. Look at the rest of Mathilde's kit: Branulhune, her belt, the Staff of Mistery, her utility items, even Ranald's Coin and the Sword of Gazul if you want to take an expansive view of Mathilde's kit. All of them are recent manufacture: new wonders brought into the world as part of the Age of Mathilde. The Armor of von Tarnus, though... that's got history.
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This is part of why I dislike the armor. Everything else you listed was made specifically for Mathilde as part of the quest, it's a product of Boney's and thread's creativity. The Armor of von Tarnus is just... a magic item ripped out of a sourcebook. It's got exactly the same vibes as when people just start wiki-diving and going "this prosthetic arm Mathilde knows nothing about is clearly the same arm as that Lizardman hero".

Mathilde has some in-character reason to know the Armor exists unlike the more egregious cases, but for something that was barely mentioned before this vote to suddenly become the thread fixation because we know OOC it's "the best armor ever that Mathilde could never hope to equal" when IC she's never even thought about examining the enchantment just feels lame as hell.
 
[X] Plan : Sky Citadel
- [X] A flying fortress, built for warfare. (Colleges boon)
-- [X] Emphacise size over speed if needed
-- [X] Large barrarks and storage areas
-- [X] Lots of gun ports
-- [X] Docks for dwarven copters and stables for biological flyers
-- [X] Observation post with telescopes
-- [X] A huge, long range cannon if possible
- [X] Expertise and dwarf-power to build defensible, armed and gribbly-proof fortress as can be (Karak Vlag Boon)
-- [X] Cannons, siege weapons and handheld weaponry.
- [X] Funding for a garrison (Imperial Great Deed)

I know a research ship/castle is very cool, but how practical the research part really is? We already own two top of the line research facilities and fast transport to bring our research materials to those facilities. When are we really gonna need mobile research facilities.

On the other hand, a flying fortress will always find a use, even if we are not the ones using it all the time. It would be incredibly useful for Nexus Reclamations, WAGHs, Chaos Invasions (especially if we have it built and Chaos-Proofs by Vlag dwarves), naval campaigns and most other wars we get involved in.

And when we don't need our Sky Citadel, we either lend it to another military campaign such as the Silver Road OR we just park it over the Border Princes to bolster Greta's authority and safeguard EIC trade. If we ever choose to be a ruler of some kind as our next job, it could maintain control and security over a huge territory.

And just because it's function is mainly a martial one, doesn't mean it can't be used for exploration and travel. In fact, a full on flying military base might be BETTER for exploration and research, since we could defend ourselves against a variety of threats. And why people are watching the huge flying fortress in the skies, they might be less aware of the Grey Wizard infiltrating their ranks...

Approval voting :

[X] Elector-Countess
Cool, but I'd rather have a huge Sky Citadel if we ever go for it. Even if it means we have to go for unclaimed terrain such as the Border Princes or the Forest of Gloom.
[X] A Kingdom in The Sky
Pretty cool too, alhough I wouldn't want just regular knights.
[X] Plan Tower of Doom! and Research!
At least it's a flying castle.
[X] Mathilde's Flying Circus Knightship MK 2
Very cool and pretty much what I'd like.
 
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While i admit that the armor is, practically speaking, a not inconsiderable increase in a very narrow subset of our abilities.
It is effectively just a "number went up" for me.
So now we can wear armor, cool, we already were going to make silk robes so it's not that huge an increase.
Especially given i am not exactly that worried about mooks anyway, and there a re plenty of non mooks where the armor would not help.

Flying ship or tower actually do things, they visible increase our options in a way no armor can ever do.
It is a visible flex on anyone who sees us flying it, it allows us to do things we otherwise would have struggled to do, there's potential there for something new and interesting.

Armor is, kinda useful, but not very interesting.
It was already being lent out to wizards, now it is just being lent out to Mathilde for however long the quest goes.
Instead of the colleges coming together to make something new in never before seen (in the empire) scale.
 
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