I agree. The death bridge one is the best for the population.
The Oldtown deployment is just what the population will like the most in the immediate term.
Long term best is my preference.
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
The Oldtown deployment is just what the population will like the most in the immediate term.
Long term best is my preference.
- Location
- California
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Slap the rock on Grombrindal and ask him to say hi to his uncle.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
That's the thing. The appeal to me isn't just defensive, it's just the defensive side is easier to vocalize with the Bridge of Death to compare it to.
Maybe something like:
"This is all of us, coming together to bring aid and comfort to those who once held so fast for the sake of all of us. We site the spirit of the new cooperation in the nexus of the old, to protect those who once protected us. What you and your ancestors have done, the sacrifices you have made, solely because it was the right thing to do, has not gone unremembered, and by our will it will not go unrewarded."
A little bit of directly invoking the old and new international cooperation, a little bit of defense, a little bit of repaying old debts, and a lot of Protector. Not just Mathilde's own act resonating a little bit with her understanding of the Protector, but also being that face of the coin for someone else.
I'm still not sure that's all of it, and there may be more concise ways to tie it all together, but that's more of the story.
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- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Long term ALL the stones are going to go up anyways.
You need to argue that a few weeks or a few months of slightly higher(?) impact on chaos makes up for harming (as they will see it) the population in the short term.
If the choice was where to put the one stone we had, then I'd be voting as you do. Since it's not, it's a question of which one goes first, in voting for the one that will make people want to have more instead of less.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Cities like to expand. Its what they do. Thats why every old town city in Europe has like five sets of walls and you have to stop building this road right now because we need archeologic excavation here stat. Now, Praag is a recovering city. It would probably like to expand, in the future. Letting it be so into its own old borders first seems to me a fine sort of message.
Because the Old Towners are used to cursed shit. They won´t have to be and we will fix that but they have dealt and prospered until now. But actual reclamation effort? Thats bound to light a fire under some asses. Nothing quite like that for revanchists and patriots of such zeal that they decided to rebuild on turbofucked ground.
The human cost necessary to push forward? Acceptable. We are reclaiming our land. The enemies? Opportunity for vengeance and rooting out cultists. Bring it on. To general populace, this seems a powerful statement built on foundation of sentiments they already carry.
Because the Old Towners are used to cursed shit. They won´t have to be and we will fix that but they have dealt and prospered until now. But actual reclamation effort? Thats bound to light a fire under some asses. Nothing quite like that for revanchists and patriots of such zeal that they decided to rebuild on turbofucked ground.
The human cost necessary to push forward? Acceptable. We are reclaiming our land. The enemies? Opportunity for vengeance and rooting out cultists. Bring it on. To general populace, this seems a powerful statement built on foundation of sentiments they already carry.
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Oh God he'll reveal the ugly kludge under our outer cladding
It's more like priorities.
1 is "we will protect people first, then fight chaos."
2 is "chaos will die first, then we save the civilians."
Which is a sad idea for us but for Warhammer fantasy it's one of those necessary evil I agree with. Protecting people will always be noble but chaos needs to be fought now.
That reminds me, isn't the cladding supposed to have a sexy elf goddess on it?
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Did we give them rights to the Empire or the whole Old World?
What we are doing is voting for a pattern by which the stones will generally be deployed in the future.
To take assault Chaos hot spots? Or to nail down corners of already-ok areas?
Just like here, I am of the opinion that assaulting strong Dhar-zones is the best for the world's population in the long run.
For that, the time scale is not immaterial. Even if we have only a few decades between different deployments, that can make a huge difference when an everchosen is perhaps only a decade out.
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The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
I'd say "Fighting Chaos is how we liberate our peoples" rather "more important than protect" for the second.
It's not even that they're not both forms of protection, it's just that sort of fine-grained argument over whether the better form of protection is to defend who is there at the cost of not making maximum progress or to liberate from what ails even at the cost of some defense in the moment. The sort of argument that would exist between Ranald the Revolutionary and Ranald the Protector, had such a split happened.
No.
2. Says that the best way to protect people is to clean out chaos hotspots near them.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Neither.
It is actually profoundly dwarf
1) is demonstrating the benefits of waystone network as tool of protecting people
2) is, to Praag and Kislev specifically, demonstrating their value in reclaiming lost glories
The first is a nice sort of message, but Kislev is proud nation of proud people who have bled themselves for less.
Its "okay, you spent literal millenium bleeding to halt advance of chaos... how would you like to turn around the tables and do to it what it has done to you for all that time" deal.
ITs playing on revanchism, of reclamation of what was lost. I personally like Bleakness the most but sadly thats not on the table.
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It was right of first refusal on any contract to produce waystones within the Empire—basically, any empire waystone we need to ask them if they want to provide the expertise to build it before other people. They also get to put a dedication to their goddess on any such waystone.
The Praag waystone was built before anyone knew where it was going, but Tindomiel did contribute towards its construction, so I assume it has the dedication on it.
For the rest of the Praag waystones, we don't have to ask them if they want the contract first, but it's unclear whether they will still put the dedication to Hekarti upon it if we do ask them to make it.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
No one is going to look at us taking an army against chaos corruption and say that we're not protecting people.
We protect people by destroying evil.
We are not only a knife in the dark. We are the sword at dawn.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
...sorry, but I can't get past your implication that old town Praag is "already-ok".
Liberate requires there to be people there in bondage. If there's no one there but mutants and cultists, how are we liberating anyone?
Just seems like a word chosen for good vibes rather than accuracy.
Pretty sure that's exactly what 'short term unhappiness' means. That people will look at the fight and say they are being made worse off by prompting it.
We do have text to work from.
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It is not actively spawning monsters and killing people.
It is habitable.
It is annoying, but survivable.
Definitely not perfect, but it is ok.
It is ok in an Umgi sense, not in a dwarven one.
Newtown is also, unfortunately, the area within the walls that "the poorest of the poor," are able to stay.
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pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
It is. The people of Praag looked at the ruins, looked at themselves, evaluated their priorities and decided that their safety, bodily integrity and status of their soul is a lesser concern in the face of the possibility that Chaos could actually claim that it destroyed Praag.
Of course it isn´t safe. But they decided to stay all the same. As such, to the people of Praag, the message of reclamation will, imho ,resonate better than that of safety. Because that is a thing they have already declared insignificant in face of the foe they face.
EDIT: It can ofc be more okay. But as you said, the Waystones will be deployed everywhere regardless of what we pick. This way, we send them a weapon with the sole purpose of doing what they already signed up everything that they are for.
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- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
So, you don't think that *finishing* the reclaimation of the parts they actually live in would be more popular than starting the process of reclaiming somewhere else while they still have to live in a half-reclaimed area?
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Why are dwarves planning Silver Road wars instead of populating K8P to the brim first? Why do they not just all move to KaK. They could fit, would be safe and protected in the greatest stronghold to exist on face of mallus. And yet they don´t.
And no, that Thorgrim knows what he knows does not extend to the willingness of other dwarfs to go along with it, just incase you bring that tidbit up.
EDIT: Like, i am not allowed to bring up real life history, but the propensity of people being up for reclamation of Heritage for sentimental reasons is incredible. Even in face of personal hardship. And its really not only up to the leaders hyping up some shit because they see personal power increase in it.
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The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Mostly in the sense of seeing Chaos and its influence on the world as tyrant/empire in its own right. Something so bad that other powers would happily put aside their differences and band together to stab it at any significant sign of aggression or weakness.
Because it feels like a lot of the setting and especially its history in the real world make sense to me that way.
If Chaos is four gods of Ruin, that's one thing; If Chaos is seen as a Imperial power in it's own right that's trying to go out a conquering, just one led by factious gods rather than mortal kings, then every other player banding against it to take it down a notch, a la how Boney once talked about the Storm of Chaos event and its aftermath, suddenly ties into the dynamics of real history around imperial powers. Like with how in an interstate anarchy kind of environment everyone tries to balance themselves against the strongest power so that no one can just run away with the game, or once an imperial power starts losing that moment of weakness gets everyone to come out of the woodwork to stab it while they have the chance.