[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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I haven't really seen anyone look at the paragraph saying that the Bridge of Death will be viewed positively by those with wizard advisors and ask what it means. What people in the Old World have wizards to explain to them that the Bridge of Death and New Town are the best option? Laurelorn and Ulthuan will not care, they already understand the value of waystones.
In Kislev, the Boyars are very fond of the Ice Witches. Boris knows it is a good thing and the Boyars will know it is a good thing too. The best way to get support for the Waystone Project in Kislev is to place it on the Bridge of Death.
Bretonnia has the Damsels. They have absolute authority in Bretonnia. They would know that the best way of purifying Praag is to put it on the Bridge of Death. It is not even debatable if Bretonnia's nobility heeds the Damsels. The best way to expand the Waystone Project in Bretonnia is to put it on the Bridge of Death.
The Empire is more complicated. The Emperor has a magical advisor, but the Elector Counts are factitious. The Empire's nobility sees it as fashionable to have wizards in their retinue, but not all of them do. We can assume a good portion of them do, but hard to say exactly how many. It certainly isn't a majority. Of the Elector Counts, we already know that Reikland will look upon it favorably. Wissenland has Elspeth von Draken. Middenland's Elector Count is advised by Stanisława Skłodowicz, the High Wizard of Middenheim. Hochland is very fond of its College of Sorcery, I'm sure its Elector Count listens to them for advise. Stirland will listen to Mathilde. Talabecland has a Collegiate branch college in Talabheim, but I'm not aware of anything confirming a wizard advisor to the elector count. That leaves Nordland, Ostland, Ostermark, Averland, and the Moot. While that is the majority of the Empire, the word of the Emperor will carry a lot of weight. I'm also pretty confident that the majority of Elector Counts can get access to wizard advisors, even if they don't have notable wizarding institutions or wizards in their province.
Baron Henryk's has a seat on Marienburg's Directorate. The petty rulers of Tilea and Estalia also see it as fashionable to have wizard advisors, and most fashionable to have Imperial wizarding advisors.
So the way I see it, the Bridge of Death is the best way to expand the project across the whole continent.
In Kislev, the Boyars are very fond of the Ice Witches. Boris knows it is a good thing and the Boyars will know it is a good thing too. The best way to get support for the Waystone Project in Kislev is to place it on the Bridge of Death.
Bretonnia has the Damsels. They have absolute authority in Bretonnia. They would know that the best way of purifying Praag is to put it on the Bridge of Death. It is not even debatable if Bretonnia's nobility heeds the Damsels. The best way to expand the Waystone Project in Bretonnia is to put it on the Bridge of Death.
The Empire is more complicated. The Emperor has a magical advisor, but the Elector Counts are factitious. The Empire's nobility sees it as fashionable to have wizards in their retinue, but not all of them do. We can assume a good portion of them do, but hard to say exactly how many. It certainly isn't a majority. Of the Elector Counts, we already know that Reikland will look upon it favorably. Wissenland has Elspeth von Draken. Middenland's Elector Count is advised by Stanisława Skłodowicz, the High Wizard of Middenheim. Hochland is very fond of its College of Sorcery, I'm sure its Elector Count listens to them for advise. Stirland will listen to Mathilde. Talabecland has a Collegiate branch college in Talabheim, but I'm not aware of anything confirming a wizard advisor to the elector count. That leaves Nordland, Ostland, Ostermark, Averland, and the Moot. While that is the majority of the Empire, the word of the Emperor will carry a lot of weight. I'm also pretty confident that the majority of Elector Counts can get access to wizard advisors, even if they don't have notable wizarding institutions or wizards in their province.
Baron Henryk's has a seat on Marienburg's Directorate. The petty rulers of Tilea and Estalia also see it as fashionable to have wizard advisors, and most fashionable to have Imperial wizarding advisors.
So the way I see it, the Bridge of Death is the best way to expand the project across the whole continent.
By trusting that the majority of the powers that be have wizard advisors? The nobility is no stranger to oppressing their 'lessers' if it comes down to it. I layed out above and I'm sure I missed some factors, but the majority of the powers that be have wizard adivsors.
- Location
- Romania
[X] River Gate and Northeastern Kislev
Nicholas
No longer teaching battlethings on a battleship
- Location
- Ashore again
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
I'm fine with either of the bridge options, personally. Ordinarily, I'd think Old Town a little unambitious for what we set out to do, but given that this is Praag, even placing it in the safest place would make definite improvements. New Town and clearing out the corrupted sections of the city is most obviously in our remit for the Project, along with being the most obviously helpful for the city in the long term.
My issue with the River Gate is that Boney's explanation makes it seem like the waystones would be continuing upstream from there. Despite the map that @Nerdasaurus Rex just made, River Gate doesn't seem like it would continue downriver into Praag, but upriver into the surrounding lands. And while that's great for pushing back the Chaos Wastes around the city, it wouldn't do jack for Praag itself.
The last option helps with an issue that's already being solved, if reluctantly. It's a "Nice to have", but not a necessity in my eyes compared to the rest. So far as optics for our first waystone placement would go, that would be disastrous: all but saying we'd place them for political purposes rather than for need.
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
I'm fine with either of the bridge options, personally. Ordinarily, I'd think Old Town a little unambitious for what we set out to do, but given that this is Praag, even placing it in the safest place would make definite improvements. New Town and clearing out the corrupted sections of the city is most obviously in our remit for the Project, along with being the most obviously helpful for the city in the long term.
My issue with the River Gate is that Boney's explanation makes it seem like the waystones would be continuing upstream from there. Despite the map that @Nerdasaurus Rex just made, River Gate doesn't seem like it would continue downriver into Praag, but upriver into the surrounding lands. And while that's great for pushing back the Chaos Wastes around the city, it wouldn't do jack for Praag itself.
The last option helps with an issue that's already being solved, if reluctantly. It's a "Nice to have", but not a necessity in my eyes compared to the rest. So far as optics for our first waystone placement would go, that would be disastrous: all but saying we'd place them for political purposes rather than for need.
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What rulers are there that don't have a wizard on tap and are a big enough deal to even get a waystone? The various elector counts have wizards on top, or at least priests which in this case should be much the same. Bretonnia has the Fey Enchantress whose already a fan of this project in concept. The Dawi will listen to us directly about its use, that basically just leaves like Estalia and Tilia (spelling?). and even they have magic users. Araby does too.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
General reminder that this option is about how we want the project to be perceived. Not what we will achieve, because 'all of the above' is going to be done.
[ ] Karlsbridge and Old Town
Perception: "The Waystone Project is what takes away the bad things from the places where we live in."
[ ] Bridge of Death and New Town
Perception: "The Waystone Project is a fight against the bad things near the places where we live in."
[ ] River Gate and Northeastern Kislev
Perception: "The Waystone Project is economics to turn unproductive land into productive land."
[ ] The Temple of Dazh and the Bleakness
Perception: "The Waystone Project is a religious works to allow the proper treatment of the dead."
My top two choices. Bringing in another cult on our side is fantastic, and stabilizing the actually used sections of Praag is nice. Build some goodwill up before we unleash Chaos from hitting the Death Bridge.
[x] Karlsbridge and Old Town
[x] The Temple of Dazh and the Bleakness
[x] Karlsbridge and Old Town
[x] The Temple of Dazh and the Bleakness
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
I think the factor that's swayed me here is that Newtown has been described as being home to the poorest of the poor. This is a rare opportunity to help the helpless, directly strike Chaos, and please the nobility all at the same time. The people who may die taking Newtown are still ultimately benefiting from their neighbors not becoming resentful mutants or whatever.
I think the factor that's swayed me here is that Newtown has been described as being home to the poorest of the poor. This is a rare opportunity to help the helpless, directly strike Chaos, and please the nobility all at the same time. The people who may die taking Newtown are still ultimately benefiting from their neighbors not becoming resentful mutants or whatever.
Where did 'the people' understand that from and who are they? Are we talking high nobles in Kislev, middling barons in Bretonia? Random Empire peasants? Because the answer is different for each one, and in my opinion, only the one you are proposing if we were to agglutinate the entire Old World into a homogeneous mass inhabited by 'people'.
New Town is a slum. Worse, it's a chaos corrupted slum. The guards refuse to chase criminals into it. Chaos monsters prey on the weak and vulnerable. The drains spread sickness. The wind incites violence. The ground turns into quicksand, and the streets shift into an inescapable labyrinth. Cultists and mutants wage gang wars against each other over the meagre territory. Every time you try to burn out the corruption, it grows back.
Where better for a first run of our new waystone? Pull down the buildings, kill the cultists, burn the corruption—and this time, it'll stay burnt.
It will be a bloody campaign. Soldiers will die. Innocents will get caught in the crossfire. The cultists will go all out, because they will be fighting for survival. Who knows what monstrosities we'll find in the heart of the district. But this course was set when we built a waystone, so we might as well as commit to it and take the fight to the enemy. This war against New Town is inevitable, the Z'ra will move on the district, with or without us, once he sees what waystones can do. The least we can do is take ownership of it, and send a message to the rest of the world—we're here to fight.
We are not just the knife in the dark, we are also the sword at dawn.
Where better for a first run of our new waystone? Pull down the buildings, kill the cultists, burn the corruption—and this time, it'll stay burnt.
It will be a bloody campaign. Soldiers will die. Innocents will get caught in the crossfire. The cultists will go all out, because they will be fighting for survival. Who knows what monstrosities we'll find in the heart of the district. But this course was set when we built a waystone, so we might as well as commit to it and take the fight to the enemy. This war against New Town is inevitable, the Z'ra will move on the district, with or without us, once he sees what waystones can do. The least we can do is take ownership of it, and send a message to the rest of the world—we're here to fight.
We are not just the knife in the dark, we are also the sword at dawn.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
All those evil things are not only still there when they're not attacking soldiers, but actively killing citizens. Their resting state is preying on the poor and criminals, and they kill a lot of them; even chaos cultists don't hang around there for long because they're also on the menu.
Newtown also has people who will be saved.
I'd prefer to be thanked for it, but I think it's important that we choose the option that actually does the job best. I don't think we should let our desire for accolades occlude which of these choices will save the most lives. I think that that is a dilemma which many Grey Wizards have had to confront.
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
If there's a clear lesson to be learned here, it's that Praag should be a major focus of future waystone deployments. It really needs them, and Praag would be a perfect sales pitch for the Waystone Project once we get rolling.
If the greatest threat to our first deployment is negative opinion about it, then we should avoid putting it somewhere where it could cause an angry mob to form about a new invention making corruption worse in a place that desperately needs less of it (even if it would be better in the long term).
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
If there's a clear lesson to be learned here, it's that Praag should be a major focus of future waystone deployments. It really needs them, and Praag would be a perfect sales pitch for the Waystone Project once we get rolling.
If the greatest threat to our first deployment is negative opinion about it, then we should avoid putting it somewhere where it could cause an angry mob to form about a new invention making corruption worse in a place that desperately needs less of it (even if it would be better in the long term).
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- Location
- Brazil
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
At the end of the day, the other options will also happen, so it seems to me only logical that we treat this like triage at an ER- we fix the problem that can kill the patient before anything else.
And an entire section of the city where the walls eat people is most certainly at the top of the list. Hell, looking at the map, this is probably one of, if not the largest section of the city.
This is, effectively, the thing which is stopping Praag from being fully retaken. Doesn't matter how much they rebuild the nice parts if they are forever walled in with the corrupted quarter.
The fact that this also sends a strong message to the one part of the population that is hard to convince in person, as we can't really go out and talk with every influential noble like we can the actual rulers, but also the people most likely to pay for it all and the people who'd be capable of throwing up a multitude of extremely annoying inconveniences is just phenomenal. It's like killing an entire flock of birds with one stone.
At the end of the day, the other options will also happen, so it seems to me only logical that we treat this like triage at an ER- we fix the problem that can kill the patient before anything else.
And an entire section of the city where the walls eat people is most certainly at the top of the list. Hell, looking at the map, this is probably one of, if not the largest section of the city.
This is, effectively, the thing which is stopping Praag from being fully retaken. Doesn't matter how much they rebuild the nice parts if they are forever walled in with the corrupted quarter.
The fact that this also sends a strong message to the one part of the population that is hard to convince in person, as we can't really go out and talk with every influential noble like we can the actual rulers, but also the people most likely to pay for it all and the people who'd be capable of throwing up a multitude of extremely annoying inconveniences is just phenomenal. It's like killing an entire flock of birds with one stone.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
A thought: Karlsbridge and Old Town is the dwarfiest option. First, fortify. Then go on the attack.
Also... A city isn't just a bunch roads and buildings. A city is the people who live there. Even the 'nice' parts of Praag are a dangerous and unsafe nightmare to live in. (And economically that sucks, too.) The Bridge of Death lets more land on the map be reclaimed, but Karlsbridge makes the city itself actually livable.
Also... A city isn't just a bunch roads and buildings. A city is the people who live there. Even the 'nice' parts of Praag are a dangerous and unsafe nightmare to live in. (And economically that sucks, too.) The Bridge of Death lets more land on the map be reclaimed, but Karlsbridge makes the city itself actually livable.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
People are actively living in Newtown. They're not living for very long, because it kills them, but it very much has a population. A perpetually dwindling population. It is a population of the poorest and the worst off, who are stuck in Newtown because they have nowhere else to go.
There's livable, and then there's alive-able, and picking Newtown is the choice that will stop the thing that's killing the most people. The sooner we get it done the less victims it'll passively kill.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Pretty sure that is not a concern. If nothing else if we get nobles on our side there will be armed men guarding the stones but more importantly people will suffer because the campaign to take New Town and probably won't make connection to waystone itself anyway so this is a empty fear.
- Location
- Brazil
New Town is a chaotic slum that takes up like a quarter of the city's area.
It's not the densest in population, but it's huge. There are people there- in fact, they are the poor fuckers that need help the most.
New Town isn't merely new land on the map, it's "everything north of this street is a slice of actual hell on earth". Imagine living two streets down from there?
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- Location
- Canada
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
All the options do that. The vote is a question of how people around the Old World will view the Project. The Bridge of Death is the option that people with wizard advisors will approve the most of. It just so happens to be that the majority of people whose direct approval we need have wizard advisors.
It's probably the best option to get Bretonnia to reach out to Mathilde to join the Project, rather than the other way around. Even ignoring the AP saved, being the one reached out to gives you a lot of negotiating leverage. Though I'm not sure if Boney would use the locked-in social option that way.