They are the poor fuckers who become the mutants. Even the Unburnable Streets couldn't produce spawn and cultists if people did not get pushed into the truly awful areas
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
They are the poor fuckers who become the mutants. Even the Unburnable Streets couldn't produce spawn and cultists if people did not get pushed into the truly awful areas
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hmm. The last two are absolutely not what we want.
The issue here is that our Waystone model and deployment choices militate strongly towards the second, but we made our Tributaries pitch to Ros along the lines of the first. Granted, Tributaries in Stirland are a different kettle of fish, but perceptions, as we say.
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
It's difficult, but I'm going with this. Beastherds and greenskins can and have sought to desecrate or destroy Waystones, which is why they need protection. The Waystones won't keep you safe if you go out into the moonlight on Hexenacht or Geisennacht - just a lot less gribblies. They are only so much shields, because - in this day and age especially - they are swords, choking the resources that the powers of darkness use to further their plans.
- Location
- Oklahoma
First- trying to draw a parallel between real life gated communities and a community that's behind a wall because literal hell is on the other side is absurd.
But moreover, we're helping both regardless.
This is not a choice of who to help. We're putting Waystones everywhere. Praag will be drowning in Waystones. Waystones in New Town, Waystones in Old Town, Waystones in the river gate, Waystones in the Bleakness, Waystones outside of Praag itself. Everyone's getting Waystones. Check under your chair cause you get a Waystone too!
This is not a choice of who to help.
This is a choice of where the very first Waystone gets put for political and symbolism reasons.
This is in fact a choice of who to help first and it will have a political impact (of unknown magnitude) on the order in which help is given throughout the continent.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
+ Crowd Pleaser
- No explicit minuses, but it is a slow strategy.
+ Undoubtedly the most good for Praag in the long run. Says it right there.
- It will be a fight.
+ The Economy
- It's not a very local concern.
+ Anti Skeleton Field.
- Not the maximal use of the model.
It is actually a choice of who to help. The update lays out the arguments along the lines of who is best helped. We'll get to them all eventually, but picking the first will have real positive consequences.
Edit: I'll leave this up as an example of my being wrong, I forgot the italics text at the end of the post.
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Something to consider is that the Death Bridge waystone will be right in the middle of the Old Town, near the citadel. Yes, the intention is to spread the network north, into the worst affected areas, but Old Town will see some minor benefit even before we start building their part of the network (which will happen eventually).
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Given the mention of, for example, a Roppsmen ghetto, it's not a universally upper-class area either.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
With the exception of when Boney needs to dump some relevant info we've forgotten, we are effectively what Mathilde believes. It's up to us to decide whether we want to improve the circumstances of a lot of pretty-cursed people, a few extremely-cursed people, undo the Spooky Cemetery land, or improve the lands immediately outside the city, with the relevant benefits and downsides each option presents, as well as their long-term consequences and the effects they'd have on enthusiastic deployment.
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Old Town is a fortress on the edge of Hell, New Town is Hell, neither is remotely what anyone in character would call desirable and out of character... well let me put it this way, I would seriously consider living in Drakenhoff under a vampire rather than the cleanest least Chaos-ridden part of Praag.
All that is to say I agree with you, no part of this city is a good place to live, though one part is worse.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
JayTar
Idea briefcase
Ultimately this is what swayed my decision the most:
If this is the location safest from retaliation, then all the others are less safe.
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
If we want to do our best, we have to account for Chaos' response. The first new waystone is a really big deal. Chaos has to respond somehow.
If this is the location safest from retaliation, then all the others are less safe.
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'd like to refocus on the real purpose of this vote.
It is a question about what makes the best advertisement for waystones.
At stake is how quickly orders for waystones will pick up, and what priority those who do buy them place on making sure their deployment goes well.
So first, let's check some rules of thumb:
Ask yourself: Which is the better advertisement? Something that you need explained to you, or something that explains itself?
Ask yourself: Which is the better advertisement? The one that shows the finished product, the result, or the one that draws attention to the uglier parts of the process of getting to that finished product, the making of the sausage?
Ask yourself: Will future customers put their trust solely on the word of nobles from countries that benefit from waystone sales to determine how effective they are, or will they try to corroborate that information with informants at the ground level and rumors from traders and travelers?
Ask yourself: Which location is more accessible for someone going out of their way to see it? The one next to all the landmarks, or the one that requires a military escort to see somewhat safely?
From an advertising perspective, new town is almost certainly the worst option because it is the only one that sends mixed messages, the only one that highlights the challenges and downsides. Never advertise a product by drawing attention to the ugly parts.
This isn't immaterial, it is not a nice to have: the Z'ra illustrates our uphill battle. He is an easy mode customer:
Remember when Roswita, an elector count, fired us for being a wizard, refusing to have any magical advisor at all?
Remember how we chose praag because it was the worst off, the place that could benefit the most?
This sale is easy mode. Future sales will be harder, and a subpar first impression like Newtown will give will slow demand considerably compared to every other option available.
And while all approaches will be taken, you can only make a first impression once.
[x] Karlsbridge and Old Town
This is a choice about symbolism, PR, and what aspects, benefits, and challenges of waystone deployment will be the first impression received everywhere else.
It is a question about what makes the best advertisement for waystones.
At stake is how quickly orders for waystones will pick up, and what priority those who do buy them place on making sure their deployment goes well.
So first, let's check some rules of thumb:
Ask yourself: Which is the better advertisement? Something that you need explained to you, or something that explains itself?
Ask yourself: Which is the better advertisement? The one that shows the finished product, the result, or the one that draws attention to the uglier parts of the process of getting to that finished product, the making of the sausage?
Ask yourself: Will future customers put their trust solely on the word of nobles from countries that benefit from waystone sales to determine how effective they are, or will they try to corroborate that information with informants at the ground level and rumors from traders and travelers?
Ask yourself: Which location is more accessible for someone going out of their way to see it? The one next to all the landmarks, or the one that requires a military escort to see somewhat safely?
From an advertising perspective, new town is almost certainly the worst option because it is the only one that sends mixed messages, the only one that highlights the challenges and downsides. Never advertise a product by drawing attention to the ugly parts.
This isn't immaterial, it is not a nice to have: the Z'ra illustrates our uphill battle. He is an easy mode customer:
- He has a massive problem our product is perfect for solving,
- He is part of a signatory nation,
- His sovereign the Tzar is one of the most enthusiastic about the project around
- He does not have the empire's suspicion of magic,
- He has a wizard on staff to explain both the waystones AND mathilde's reputation to him.
- He is getting some for free.
"Prove it."
Remember when Roswita, an elector count, fired us for being a wizard, refusing to have any magical advisor at all?
Remember how we chose praag because it was the worst off, the place that could benefit the most?
This sale is easy mode. Future sales will be harder, and a subpar first impression like Newtown will give will slow demand considerably compared to every other option available.
And while all approaches will be taken, you can only make a first impression once.
[x] Karlsbridge and Old Town
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Ask yourselves what is going to impress the warrior nobility most? What is going to stick in their heads the most? Being able to march into hell and stab the shit out of everything there after which you can retake the land and pass it on to your children as the fruit of glorious conquest or a reduction in unpleasant but still survivable near-hell experience? You are thinking like a 21st century person in a modern industrialized nation, not like the kind of lunatic who straps on armor, gets on a horse and fights trolls, hell-soldiers, giants, chimera and mountains of flesh with six hearts, three brains and seven mouths that spit fire and acid.
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[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
- Pronouns
- He/Him
But they don't get their first impression from the military. The military does not like having foreign agents inside of it reporting about what it is doing. Military info gets filtered through the nobility, who are selective about it to puff themselves up as a matter of course and in this case benefit from waystone sales, and through the general populace, who don't like what they're seeing if we pick newtown.
New Town's bonifieds over the others are only apparent after their wizard explains it to them.
And even then, the military valor isn't what our product gives or claims to give to our customers, it is what it would appear to demand from them. It would, until we explain otherwise, give the impression that if you're not prepared to wage a campaign, you're not ready for waystones. The good vibes of warriors doing warrior things reflects on Praag, not on the waystone project.
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You are still missing the point, there is no military. The people in charge the ones making their decisions are warrior-nobility, their sense of self-worth and identity is based on being able to kill enemies (some of which are gribbles), keep their own land and take new land.
- Location
- Pittsburgh PA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
The stones sends a message, and that message is "This stone kills Chaos".
The stones sends a message, and that message is "This stone kills Chaos".
Abel didn't need a wizard to explain to people why the purge of the Hunted Hills was a good thing. The comment that it will be "looked well upon by the kind of person who has a Wizard in their employ to explain that to them" is specifically about explaining to the Z'ra why we need to invade the part of his city that is most corrupted—thankfully, he has a wizard on retainer to explain that to him, and he's not likely to block us because of it.
Other rulers will be able to understand why Praag purged it's most corrupted quarter, the only part that needs explaining is why we started with it instead of somewhere more stable.
Other rulers will be able to understand why Praag purged it's most corrupted quarter, the only part that needs explaining is why we started with it instead of somewhere more stable.
Answers to the edit:
This is a very utilitarian perspective. Do you think the young knights going on Errantry wars do a cost benefit analyses on the odds of getting killed by orcs or getting land? Of course not, glorious war is good and pious and if you do well enough fate will reward you with land to call your own.
Most other nobles are not as extreme as the Bretonians, but to all of them martial glory is a real thing that is sought out and land is the only wealth, the only value that really matters. That's why they look at merchants in askance because they are producing value from nothing, which means they are scamming people.
This is a very utilitarian perspective. Do you think the young knights going on Errantry wars do a cost benefit analyses on the odds of getting killed by orcs or getting land? Of course not, glorious war is good and pious and if you do well enough fate will reward you with land to call your own.
Most other nobles are not as extreme as the Bretonians, but to all of them martial glory is a real thing that is sought out and land is the only wealth, the only value that really matters. That's why they look at merchants in askance because they are producing value from nothing, which means they are scamming people.
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Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Did you forget that we are in Kislev? There is not such seperation between military, nobility or the people. They all are one and the same.
It's less a reason to vote #2, it's more a reason to vote #3.