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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Boney said:
1. For most purposes, there's enough ambient Winds around to just do whatever a Wizard wants to do. For the few exceptions, they just build something specific for that purpose. The Jades are the only ones with endlessly-scalable peacetime demands and the techniques to fulfill them. It is a bit chicken-and-egg - why develop techniques for using massive amounts of magic if you don't have access to it? why seek access to massive amounts of magic if you don't have techniques to use it?
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In local news: Witch hunters are unsure how to deal with the Red wizard who keeps pulling Ashqy out of the waystone network to grow a fire. This is peacetime, there is no purpose for the fire. The wizard just thinks its pretty.
And a confused Gray wizard continues to pull Ulgu out of a leyline assuming that they had a good reason when they started.

I feel like the best scalable reason after Ghyran would be Azyr? Could you pump it into the sky to cause rainfall and prevent droughts or would that just cause thunder and lightning?
 
Dark as Silver said:
I feel like the best scalable reason after Ghyran would be Azyr? Could you pump it into the sky to cause rainfall and prevent droughts or would that just cause thunder and lightning?
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Thunder and lightning would be very very frightening me :V

More seriously, Hysh would also be pretty nice. If you can use it to fuel a mega Ill-bane in case of epidemy.
 
Tobtorp said:
Until the insomnia kicks in and everyone goes slowly crazy

Or just gets fucking scared of the wizards making another sun in their backyard
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The advantage of Ill-bane is that it has an immediate and very visible effect. See your grandma who was slowly drowning in her own lungs? Within a few moment of seeing the strange light a messenger form your lord warned you about in advance, she's now cured. Your neighbors' son, your aunt, your friends who were all dying? Cured too. All of that thanks to the new sun wizards were making in your backyard. And if a few nights of insomnia is the price to pay for that, most people will pay it without trouble. It's not like the spell would be used outside of epidemics anyway, so it wouldn't last too long.

edit: and also shutters, yes.
 
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Alratan said:
Shutters are a thing.
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K von Carstein said:
The advantage of Ill-bane is that it has an immediate and very visible effect. See your grandma who was slowly drowning in her own lungs? Within a few moment of seeing the strange light a messenger form your lord warned you about in advance, she's now cured. Your neighbors' son, your aunt, your friends who were all dying? Cured too. All of that thanks to the new sun wizards were making in your backyard. And if a few nights of insomnia is the price to pay for that, most people will pay it without trouble. It's not like the spell would be used outside of epidemics anyway, so it wouldn't last too long.

edit: and also shutters, yes.
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To the shutters. You ever had someone point a floodlight at your window? Ain't no shutter that stops enough light that isn't bricking up your windows.

As for using it against diseases? Ill-bane doesn't delete illnesses it just half's their duration which is nice but not the immediate "little Jimmy loses his cough." And if you think a lord telling the peasents the incredibly frightening light that almost blinds you and makes you think very strange thoughts will help them then I've got a flying castle to sell you.
 
Tobtorp said:
As for using it against diseases?
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It was Light of Purity that does the disease-pausing effect. It really is just as insanely powerful as it sounds.

And lords are willing to throw human prisoners into bonfires on the advice of wizards for much less beneficent effects. For one that pauses and prevents diseases they'd gladly use the iron gauntlet of their rule by force. That's what makes them 'lords'.
 
Tobtorp said:
To the shutters. You ever had someone point a floodlight at your window? Ain't no shutter that stops enough light that isn't bricking up your windows.

As for using it against diseases? Ill-bane doesn't delete illnesses it just half's their duration which is nice but not the immediate "little Jimmy loses his cough." And if you think a lord telling the peasents the incredibly frightening light that almost blinds you and makes you think very strange thoughts will help them then I've got a flying castle to sell you.
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Would be like a floodlight on your shutters tho? Now that I think of it, ill-bane ´s effect doesn't even describe any light. Furthermore, the area around the Light College is influenced by a Hysh effect and there's no light needed for that.

Ok, maybe it's not instaneous. But it still alleviate the disease, and after a few days the effects will show. More importantly, it's unlikely you need to maintain the spell for the entire duration of the disease for it to be effective.

Why would the spell make people think strange thoughts? And even if it was true, the people living around the Light College are subjected to a Hysh mental effect and don't seem that bothered by it.

Concerning the peasants, put soldiers around the wizard to defend him when he does his thing. The populace will see the benefits quickly anyway.
 
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chocolote12 said:
It was Light of Purity that does the disease-pausing effect. It really is just as insanely powerful as it sounds.

And lords are willing to throw human prisoners into bonfires on the advice of wizards for much less beneficent effects. For one that pauses and prevents diseases they'd gladly use the iron gauntlet of their rule by force. That's what makes them 'lords'.
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Lords can do lots of things until the peasents riot, then they lose a lot of options.

Edit: I also checked the wiki, now I don't know if it's super accurate but for ill-bane it says "half the duration of any disease."
K von Carstein said:
Would be like a floodlight on your shutters tho? Now that I think of it, ill-bane ´s effect doesn't even describe any light. Furthermore, the area around the Light College is influenced by a Hysh effect and there's no light needed for that.

Ok, maybe it's not instaneous. But it still alleviate the disease, and after a few days the effects will show. More importantly, it's unlikely you need to maintain the spell for the entire duration of the disease for it to be effective.

Why would the spell make people think strange thoughts? And even if it was true, the people living around the Light College are subjected to a Hysh mental effect and don't seem that bothered by it.

Concerning the peasants, put soldiers around the wizard to defend him when he does his thing. The populace will see the benefits quickly anyway.
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I do kinda think doing a ridiculously overcasted version of the lore of light spell via a waystone would produce a lot of hysh in the area, we have found that a lot of one wind in an area influences the thought process of people in said area (see also Altdorf and ghur)
As for the light? That is more speculation on my part but your still overcasting a hysh spell to ridiculous degrees so having blinding light break out seems like a likely side effect.

And again if you need to defend you wizard with soldiers you already lost most of the advantages of doing mass magic.
 
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If you're going for mass castings of Hysh it would probably be going street to street to cast Light of Purity, with instructions that lanterns lit from the fire should be kept burning, and as should the communal castings in public places.

That would make disease transmission and catching the various infections that weaken and kill people in a pre-antibiotic era, particularly children, would be much rarer.
 
If we want something infinitely scalable, why not use Ulgu to remove everybody's memories of Sigmar so they can worship more competent deities instead?
 
Honestly, you don't even need giant amounts of Hysh to make a noticeable difference on the health of a city. Just park an overtuned Ill-Bane enchantment in the places where contagious disease are most likely to spread from. Altdorf for instance has the Sewer Watch and they're a bunch of poor sods who are probably at the highest risk of diseases in the city, which could then spread onwards to their families.

Add in an enchantment to clean objects ala Cleansing Glow and they might even thank you.

Endlessly scaling that might very quickly end up having diminishing returns.
 
Tobtorp said:
Lords can do lots of things until the peasents riot, then they lose a lot of options.

Edit: I also checked the wiki, now I don't know if it's super accurate but for ill-bane it says "half the duration of any disease."
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Ill-bane can either halve the duration of an active disease or remove 1 poison, with which one occurs being up to the Caster when casting the spell.

Light of Purity allows everyone in it's light to 'automatically pass toughness checks to resist any disease'. It also has built-in scalability, as the effect lasts for as long as the fire burns and the fire can be spread to another source without any loss of effect.

Boon of Hysh is a touch spell that completely heals a single target, including all wounds, diseases, poisons, etc.
 
Parabola said:
Honestly, you don't even need giant amounts of Hysh to make a noticeable difference on the health of a city. Just park an overtuned Ill-Bane enchantment in the places where contagious disease are most likely to spread from. Altdorf for instance has the Sewer Watch and they're a bunch of poor sods who are probably at the highest risk of diseases in the city, which could then spread onwards to their families.

Add in an enchantment to clean objects ala Cleansing Glow and they might even thank you.

Endlessly scaling that might very quickly end up having diminishing returns.
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As an alternative means, instead of places where disease is liable to spread, if you want the entire city to be touched by a spell's influence, one could simply pick a location where everyone goes.

The well from which water is drawn, the market where food is bought, the tea houses where they socialize, etc.

It's more for curative spells than preventative or palliative, but the effect should probably be more cost efficient for a similar effect regardless, and for a lot of diseases, that little bit may be the difference between a plague and no disease at all.

For something more mundane the well might be the first pick but with Hysh, specifically, here the tea house might be the best choice here, even despite losing out on raw quantity. Partially because a place where stimulants are drank seems like exactly the place that would call to Hysh anyways, partially because any side effects of prolonged exposure there might well be a selling point.
 
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The big problem with any amount of mass magic integration is that you still need you peasents to be at least accepting of it. Because otherwise you suddenly just made them not go to the market anymore.

Hell even for Altdorf it would be difficult to get people to actually go where magic is cast if they have any alternative.

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You can of course have the Lord force the issue but firstly you also need the Lord behind it and secondly the cults will happily circumvent any such orders if it means getting people closer to them and away from other influences.
 
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Tobtorp said:
I do kinda think doing a ridiculously overcasted version of the lore of light spell via a waystone would produce a lot of hysh in the area, we have found that a lot of one wind in an area influences the thought process of people in said area (see also Altdorf and ghur)
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Afawk, when the Jade use waystones to fuel mass spells to fertilise the soil, the only effect in the area is the ground getting more fertile. Hell, the whole of Reikland is permanently under a giant Ghyran effect and the Reiklanders aren't particularly more nurturing than the other Imperials. There's no reasons why it wouldn't be the same for Hysh.

Tobtorp said:
As for the light? That is more speculation on my part but your still overcasting a hysh spell to ridiculous degrees so having blinding light break out seems like a likely side effect.
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Let's agree to disagree then.

Tobtorp said:
And again if you need to defend you wizard with soldiers you already lost most of the advantages of doing mass magic.
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How so? And it would be needed only the first time, because after the outbreak is stopped cold people will accept more easily the second time it happens.
 
K von Carstein said:
How so? And it would be needed only the first time, because after the outbreak is stopped cold people will accept more easily the second time it happens.
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Because people aren't rational. When you have soldiers cut down a riot Because of a wizard the bad blood won't disappear because an illness is cured.
People remember shit like that.
When your idea to solve it is "they certainly will rationally analyze the up and downsides and come to the logical conclusion." Then I'm afraid your a chamon wizard.
 
Tobtorp said:
Because people aren't rational. When you have soldiers cut down a riot Because of a wizard the bad blood won't disappear because an illness is cured.
People remember shit like that.
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No they don't, it's a pre-modern civilization, people remember even less shit than they do now and people are notoriously goldfish-like now.

Getting their ass kicked because they rioted is Tuesday for them in any case. So in practice they'd just quietly complain about it like they quietly complain about every other time it happens. The real thing that'd make magic different is that it is magic, so the priesthood would go out onto the streets to organize the riot and then remind people of it every Sunday. But if you can stop that by negotiating the appropriate concessions to cult leadership, the peasantry's opinion is worth nothing.
 
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