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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Imperious said:
That's true for most of the greatest wizards in the setting though. Wizards like the Slann, Morathi and Teclis all enjoy the benefits of such advantages as powerful helpers, powerful magical items and powerful external power sources such as the War Crown of Saphery, the sorceress coven of Ghrond, the geomantic web etc,etc without which they would probably be considerably less powerful.

Hell it's true of Caledor. His greatest accomplishments such as forging the Great Weapons and casting the Great Vortex relied on the Anvil of Vaul and a group of some of Ulthuan's greatest mages, respectively, and hey, some people invented spells in the lores that Caledor used to.

Meanwhile one of the highest praises even the High Elves' own army book can attribute to Teclis since 6th edition is that Teclis, might, be the equal of Nagash in power.

As is the people who beat Nagash when he was without his panoply, down a hand and weakened by his resurrection were Settra at the command of Nehekhara's undead and Sigmar themselves, hardly lightweights of the setting, and Sigmar even needed Nagash's own crown to do it, and that's the guy who took on an everchosen and Khorne's sacred executioner in one on one and won.
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I mean... yes? Caledor and the Slann and so on definitely would be a lot less powerful without their infrastructure. Caledor especially hardly cast the Great Vortex singlehandedly. The Slann are definitely some of the most powerful spellcasters around, but the stuff they do on the strategic stage like reordering mountain ranges isn't actually the strongest evidence for that. Vice versa, Teclis and Morathi are some of the most personally potent wizards on the world, but they're both kinda thin on grand, world-shaking rituals.

As a minor note: That statement about Teclis' power 'rivalling that of the Great Necromancer'? That's copied and pasted from the 6e army book, which was written almost entirely from an in-universe perspective, so its significance as a statement of Nagash's power isn't objective; it's a teacher telling a young student a famous name they might recognise.
 
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A_Somebody said:
Wish we had a baseline for Burning Shadow's damage. Would help show exactly how much weight the "Dwarfen Not Hellfire" is pulling.

The spell states "to burn like acid." Acids kinda have a wide range from mouth burn via ingestion of too many Salt n Vinegar Chips to Hydrocholric+++ You Flesh is Gone.
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My opinion is now "Dwarfen Not Hellfire" is pulling all the weight in damage, and Burning Shadows are just delivery mechanizm at this point.
 
So, it seems like we see a theory/potency split...

Teclis and Morathi on the potency end, Van Hel on the theory end, Nagash and the slann ranged between.

I wonder if Van Hel - Nagash - Grandpa Toad - Morathi - Teclis is the right order?
 
Glau said:
So, it seems like we see a theory/potency split...

Teclis and Morathi on the potency end, Van Hel on the theory end, Nagash and the slann ranged between.

I wonder if Van Hel - Nagash - Grandpa Toad - Morathi - Teclis is the right order?
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Ah, close but not quite, you're missing some:

Van Hel - Nagash - Grandpa Toad - Morathi - Teclis- Average Damsel - Average Prophetess - Fay Enchantress
 
Boney said:
1. For most purposes, there's enough ambient Winds around to just do whatever a Wizard wants to do. For the few exceptions, they just build something specific for that purpose. The Jades are the only ones with endlessly-scalable peacetime demands and the techniques to fulfill them. It is a bit chicken-and-egg - why develop techniques for using massive amounts of magic if you don't have access to it? why seek access to massive amounts of magic if you don't have techniques to use it?
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And do we really want to find out what the Brights would do if pushed to create something endlessly-scalable?
 
Boney said:
2. Magic just provides the targeting mechanism and transmission medium of the Eye of Gazul. The rest of it is Dwarven in origin, and is extremely steeped in secrets. Mathilde hasn't asked what exactly the pillar that powers it is plugged into.
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Huh, if we had made that tower if smoke and mirrors would it be the sort of thing that would need that much energy? Seems like any sort of large scale teleportation would require massive amounts of ulgu.
 
Guys... I know we wanted to do the gigaflex this turn but what if we waited another 6 turns to build a long range teleport tower, then teleport into the supreme patriarch trials with all balls, throw the hysh ball at dragomas head and grab the staff?
 
A_Somebody said:
Wish we had a baseline for Burning Shadow's damage. Would help show exactly how much weight the "Dwarfen Not Hellfire" is pulling.

The spell states "to burn like acid." Acids kinda have a wide range from mouth burn via ingestion of too many Salt n Vinegar Chips to Hydrocholric+++ You Flesh is Gone.
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In the RPG, it's not super strong, it's comparable to direct damage Aqshy spells of around the same difficulty in terms of power, and could take away almost half of a goblin's Wounds (3 Damage per target).

Here in the quest, with both Mathilde and Kasmir rolling really well, she was able to burn a lot of the Singing's King's army of ghouls and burn away the flesh of the Singing King - which would have been enough to put him down if he wasn't a Strigoi, who are known to have unnatural resilience. And alone but with another good roll, Mathilde was capable of burning three goblins that were pursuing her to death.

But be it in quest or in the RPG, the appeal of Burning Shadows isn't its power, it's that if you can get past its tricky casting condition, it has a way larger area of effect than spells of the same difficulty.

...To actually answer your question, Dwarfen Hellfire is a lot stronger. Way stronger. We may not have the right frame of reference for how much stronger.

The Lone badger said:
And do we really want to find out what the Brights would do if pushed to create something endlessly-scalable?
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Puts on my conspiracy theorist hat

"Alright fellow Brights, there's no other humans around for miles. Let's turn this mountain into a volcano for the sake of our super secret lord, Addaioth!"
 
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Castlevania has a teleporting castle, so there is precedent for a teleporting tower. The Towers of Screaming Death may be an example.
 
Imrix said:
I mean... yes? Caledor and the Slann and so on definitely would be a lot less powerful without their infrastructure. Caledor especially hardly cast the Great Vortex singlehandedly. The Slann are definitely some of the most powerful spellcasters around, but the stuff they do on the strategic stage like reordering mountain ranges isn't actually the strongest evidence for that. Vice versa, Teclis and Morathi are some of the most personally potent wizards on the world, but they're both kinda thin on grand, world-shaking rituals.
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Which is why I'm saying that claiming Nagash only did his greatest magical achievements when he had a lot of resources at hand isn't a strike against Nagash specifically so much as it is a strike against everyone of the characters generally thought to be the most powerful wizards in the setting.

And Morathi casted the sundering, one of the most significant rituals in Warhammer lore, which might have even been literally world shaking at that.

Imrix said:
As a minor note: That statement about Teclis' power 'rivalling that of the Great Necromancer'? That's copied and pasted from the 6e army book, which was written almost entirely from an in-universe perspective, so its significance as a statement of Nagash's power isn't objective; it's a teacher telling a young student a famous name they might recognise.
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Well yes, the army book holding to the same statement through multiple army books, both ones who may be less or more objective, is kind of the point. In fact having checked 7th edition to makes the same comparison between Teclis and Nagash, so are all three of 6th edition, 7th edition and 8th edition simply too unobjective to be reliable? Because as the High Elves' own army book if anything you'd expect them to hype up the powers of the greatest High Elf mage alive, as army books usually do with their characters. Furthermore even told from an in universe perspective that an Asur teacher would think that the way he could hype up the greatest mage alive in Ulthuan would be to compare him to Nagash hardly strikes me as a point against Nagash being incredibly powerful as the Asur are not exactly ones to hand out compliments to non elves so easily, especially when it'd come to one of their areas expertise, magic, in which they're most proud of. Certainly, if that's the case, said teacher didn't choose to use Kemmler and Van Hel as his examples instead, and could have used examples like Caledor Dragontamer, the Slann or even just say that Teclis surpasses even Belanaer the Wise.
 
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fictionfan said:
Well I could see possiblities in making it so the waystone network doubles as a teleportation network which would be a cool peacetime use for all that Ulgu, but that does seem like a bit of a stretch goal.
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Huh, that does strike me as a way we could take on positions far from K8P and still make use of the resources we have acquired there, though the place I would most like to go, Lustria, would still be out of range. Still interesting thought.

I mean we would not be remaking the Paths of the Old Ones here, we do not have the skill or the conditions, but even just being able to send elites, even just being able to send wizards from one part of the Empire to another in the blink of an eye would be a logistical game-changer.
 
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How unusual is it to have pet wolves in Middenland? I'm remembering our chat at the Eternal Flame and how there were wolves there. In all canon material, I remember no wolf pets, not even by priests of Ulric. Closest I can think of is that there ised to be White Wolf riders, but not anymore.

It's kinda weird that the most prolific wolf pet owners are goblins.
 
Andres said:
How unusual is it to have pet wolves in Middenland? I'm remembering our chat at the Eternal Flame and how there were wolves there. In all canon material, I remember no wolf pets, not even by priests of Ulric. Closest I can think of is that there ised to be White Wolf riders, but not anymore.

It's kinda weird that the most prolific wolf pet owners are goblins.
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There is a divine mark of Ulric in the RPG that gives you a friendly wolf you can command, you can get it multiple times.
 
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Andres said:
How unusual is it to have pet wolves in Middenland? I'm remembering our chat at the Eternal Flame and how there were wolves there. In all canon material, I remember no wolf pets, not even by priests of Ulric. Closest I can think of is that there ised to be White Wolf riders, but not anymore.

It's kinda weird that the most prolific wolf pet owners are goblins.
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I mean, don´t our White wolves literally have wolves?

(That was also shrine of the Ar-ulric ofc there are wolves there).
 
@Boney I have a few questions about Qu'aph. I imagine our books aren't very detailed, but there's an obvious reason for Mathilde to take interest in Him specifically so I figured I might as well ask.
  • Do we have anything more detailed on His domains than "subtletly and snakes"?
    • Is He a God of snakes in general, or just cobras? Canon seems to conflict on this point in the few sources I found
    • Was Qu'aph at all associated with crime, or did Sokth corner that market?
  • Any relation to the other snake Goddess, Asaph?
  • Any relation to the cat Goddess Basth?
 
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