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It sends the message that Laurelorn can go fuck itself. The Eonir are the only reason there is a Project at all, they hosted it, provided a lot of the various options available to create a waystone and most of the components of the one we made. Them not getting the first place for the masse deployment could be excused by saying Kislev is in serious danger right now. But the symbol of the very first new waystone in millennia being shipped of to Kislev? The Eonir would be pissed.
And yet, where we deploy it will be up for a vote anyways. Perhaps this is because you're overblowing how the eonir, who already got what they wanted from the project, would react.

I can't be the only person who remembers caedeth lamenting how personal profit was prioritized over saving the world when talking about their old-style tributaries. What's more important to their values? Hell, what's more important to their geo-politics? Having new waystones faster, or having the international prestige of putting the mission first when they didn't have to and closer ties to a foreign polity?

The answer seems pretty obvious to me! But we don't have to speculate on that because we will be told what the implications of each choice are when it's time for us to make the choice.

Somehow I don't think it will be "the eonir, who can forcefully dictate this issue but aren't, will flip out if you pick anything but this".
 
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No they didn´t lol. The Waystone assembled leans on it heavily, but we could have just as easily slapped a much less complicated waystone from other parts. We didn´t sure, but that doesn´t mean that other people didn´t contribute just as much, and that in future, someone won´t decide to slap those simpler waystones together to see what sticks.
Laurelorn proposed the Project. Laurelorn hosted the Project. Laurelorn created the majority of the components we used for this waystone. Mathilde comes close, but only really because Laurelorn got her to do it.

What are the contributions of the other members that match this? Did you read the part of the quote you didn't bold? It specifically talks about how Laurelorn was critical to it.

Glad we agree.
So let me be clear.
I don't think Kislev is a good site for the first waystone, but also I think your reasons for thinking that are stupid.
Praag isn't in Troll Country. It's in the Eastern Oblast. You saying that it is fine to put in Praag, while saying that Troll Country isn't fine, makes me think you want to put it in Praag.

Laurelorn does have a problem with the lornalim, namely the precious metals under them. Not that big of a problem now that most of Nordland's settlements are... not there anymore, but there are still a few left near the coast, and they probably won't have covered all the formerly 'lost' areas yet; and either way, they'd probably appreciate ones that don't need precious metals for historical reasons. Dreaming Wood tributaries could work quite well there.

Also, what Laurelorn did was important, but they certainly didn't do all the work, or even most of it. They did design 3/5 of the components of the current Waystone design, but that's only because we deliberately went with a 'highest possible quality' design, which is closest to the Elven paradigm, as seen by how we used the only three Elf-designed components; if we want a more specialized one (for just leylines, or for just rivers, or even just the most spammable design possible) we would need a lot less of them. Overall, they've made 3 out of the 15 unique components designed, and 1 out of the 3 new Tributary designs. Not counting all the work mappind the Leylines, or locating the Athel Yenlui Nexus, etc. Significant, sure, but I'd argue the Colleges have done about as much together.
Yeah they'd like them. But not in place of waystones. They aren't enough to assuage their pride.

In retrospect, you're right. I was being rather dismissive of the Collegiate Storage contributions, counting them together. Though just to point out, they also designed the Runes. That's five components. Their tributary design also convinced Ulthuan to share the leyline. I doubt Eltharion would have been able to justify to Finubar giving the ylvathoi the codes and not bring home... anything. I guess Boney was counting the cheap/moderate/expensive when they said 'short on deliverables.' But beyond that, saving us at least three or four actions is more than anyone else. On top of being the reason the Project exists and hosting it. Athel Yenlui is nice for the Empire to know about, but it doesn't affect anyone else and they told us that it existed in the first place.

While they've been short on deliverables, there's been at least three or four things that would have been an action to investigate if the Elves weren't there to just outright tell you what the deal was with it.

Yeah. Lmao at the foundation being beyond the means of Imperial Wizards. If they really leant into it, they could probably crack it.
I never said the foundation was beyond the means of Imperial Wizards. That would be rather silly for me to say given that there is a foundation variant that the Light Wizards made. I'm not sure why you brought up reverse-engineering.

We know Maidens are capable of multi-wind casting without excessive Dhar fuckery, and hypothetically maybe this means they can do the "basic" high magic needed for the capstone. If capstone is the bottleneck for Waystone production (I think storage did succeed in getting somewhat improved?) they might be able to help there?
The Fay Enchantress can't do high magic. If she can't the Damsels certainly can't. The capstone isn't a significant bottleneck, at least compared to the storage. At any given time Laurelorn has 20 enchanters who are willing and able to make it. That's much quicker than the storage. It still requires archmages to produce and it will for a long time.

And yet, where we deploy it will be up for a vote anyways. Perhaps this is because you're overblowing how the eonir, who already got what they wanted from the project, would react.

I can't be the only person who remembers caedeth lamenting how personal profit was prioritized over saving the world when talking about their old-style tributaries. What's more important to their values? Hell, what's more important to their geo-politics? Having new waystones faster, or having the international prestige of putting the mission first when they didn't have to and closer ties to a foreign polity?

The answer seems pretty obvious to me! But we don't have to speculate on that because we will be told what the implications of each choice are when it's time for us to make the choice.

Somehow I don't think it will be "the eonir, who can forcefully dictate this issue but aren't, will flip out if you pick anything but this".
Boney just got done saying, and I quote, that just because something is an option it doesn't mean there will never be negative consequences for it.

It's not geopolitics that is the problem. It's their pride. They've put a lot into this. Not respecting that is snubbing them. And no they can't force the matter, but they can definitely express their displeasure in many ways. I am not saying that they will dissolve the project over this. It is an unforced error though.
 
My stance is that the first mass deployment of Waystones should probably go to Kislev, but the first waystone, the one we currently have sitting idle in a former ballroom, the one that actually exists as a glorified prototype, should be planted in Laurelorn as a symbolic gesture.

I believe Boney has mentioned that the placement of the first waystone in three or four millennia will have a certain level of pomp and ceremony, and having that ceremony in the strange, isolated and magical city of the elves would probably get more high profile guests than having it in the most cursed city on the continent.

And we want high profile guests to look at our waystone and say "hey, that looks jolly good! I'll take 20", and if they are drunk on elf wine when that happens, all the better.
 
Laurelorn proposed the Project. Laurelorn hosted the Project. Laurelorn created the majority of the components we used for this waystone. Mathilde comes close, but only really because Laurelorn got her to do it.

What are the contributions of the other members that match this? Did you read the part of the quote you didn't bold? It specifically talks about how Laurelorn was critical to it.
Then why did they approach Mathilde?

The part i did not bold says that politically, it showcases wisdom of the Elves. Why would you showcase wisdom of the elves in elfland?
 
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Boney just got done saying, and I quote, that just because something is an option it doesn't mean there will never be negative consequences for it.

It's not geopolitics that is the problem. It's their pride. They've put a lot into this. Not respecting that is snubbing them. And no they can't force the matter, but they can definitely express their displeasure in many ways. I am not saying that they will dissolve the project over this. It is an unforced error though.
Of course there can be negative consequences. But we're going to more or less know what they are, and the idea that we should take it on faith that they will be so cripplingly bad as to constitute an "unforced error" is silly. Options generally have pros and cons, that's why they're options!

Yes, the Eonir are prideful. They also take pride in working towards an altruistic bigger picture more than everyone else. If the first waystone going somewhere else was unthinkable to them, we flat out wouldn't have the option. Queen could just say "no" and that would be that.

If there's to be a vote at all she evidently doesn't do that, so let's tamp down the presupposition and fearmongering and keep an open mind.
 
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Laurelorn did invite us, made us realize this project was possible, hosted us, hosted the other members (one of which not 5 years before would have only come with fire and axe) and gave us access to the most knowledgeable researchers this side of the big fucking ocean left of Marienburg.
Yes they had other motives then just gaining new way stones, that doesn't mean we have to snub them when they were integral to the whole project.
 
Praag isn't in Troll Country. It's in the Eastern Oblast. You saying that it is fine to put in Praag, while saying that Troll Country isn't fine, makes me think you want to put it in Praag.
Is nitpicking all thats left? Because I never suggested it was a good location. I said it wouldn't be a political stub.

Which I still agree with.
I just also think it would still be a bad decision for reasons that are unrelated.
 
Putting the first waystone in Praag isn't stubbing anyone, we're already developing tributaries in Stirland and that didn't upset anyone.
Laurelorn already has tributaries. The first waystone is a symbol of all the work we did, it's inauguration will be rather prestigious. I'm not advocating to cover Laurelorn in waystones before Kislev, I'm arguing we should let the Eonir get the prestige they are due by putting the first new waystone in millennia in their home.

Nobody was expecting Mathilde to personally reinstall the waystone network, it was always the intention that it would be done by others after we'd figured out how to.
In that way the premise is flawed. The first waystone we install will primarily be a proof of concept. And its probably going to be installed somewhere that its fairly convenient and safe to travel to and from incase the experiment fails, so probably not Troll Country
After that its out of our hands and is politically going to come down to who is willing to invest the most, which is probably going to be Boris anyway but any political insult of the first place position being stolen (which frankly seems like a very marginal amount) would be on him not us.
Nobody expected her to succeed, but the fact is she succeeded. That changes things.

I don´t think even the Elves can possibly argue that putting the first waystone into a country that is literally transitioning into chaos wastes with each passing year will be some sort of political suicide.

And the ones from Laurelorn are notably more pragmatic than their reputation would suggest.
It's not like the first waystone will change much for Kislev. We're talking about a symbol of prestige, not the first mass deployment of waystones. If the member that did by far the least get the first finished waystone, it's absolutely snubbing the one who did the first.
What I'm saying is that the Eonir are pragmatic enough to understand that the first mass deployment is going to be Kislev, but proud enough that taking their rightly earned prestige will piss them out.

And yet, where we deploy it will be up for a vote anyways. Perhaps this is because you're overblowing how the eonir, who already got what they wanted from the project, would react.

I can't be the only person who remembers caedeth lamenting how personal profit was prioritized over saving the world when talking about their old-style tributaries. What's more important to their values? Hell, what's more important to their geo-politics? Having new waystones faster, or having the international prestige of putting the mission first when they didn't have to and closer ties to a foreign polity?

The answer seems pretty obvious to me! But we don't have to speculate on that because we will be told what the implications of each choice are when it's time for us to make the choice.

Somehow I don't think it will be "the eonir, who can forcefully dictate this issue but aren't, will flip out if you pick anything but this".
Again, what is one waystone going to change for Kislev? I's the symbol that's important.

My stance is that the first mass deployment of Waystones should probably go to Kislev, but the first waystone, the one we currently have sitting idle in a former ballroom, the one that actually exists as a glorified prototype, should be planted in Laurelorn as a symbolic gesture.

I believe Boney has mentioned that the placement of the first waystone in three or four millennia will have a certain level of pomp and ceremony, and having that ceremony in the strange, isolated and magical city of the elves would probably get more high profile guests than having it in the most cursed city on the continent.

And we want high profile guests to look at our waystone and say "hey, that looks jolly good! I'll take 20", and if they are drunk on elf wine when that happens, all the better.
You explained my entire point.
 
Laurelorn already has tributaries. The first waystone is a symbol of all the work we did, it's inauguration will be rather prestigious. I'm not advocating to cover Laurelorn in waystones before Kislev, I'm arguing we should let the Eonir get the prestige they are due by putting the first new waystone in millennia in their home.


Nobody expected her to succeed, but the fact is she succeeded. That changes things.


It's not like the first waystone will change much for Kislev. We're talking about a symbol of prestige, not the first mass deployment of waystones. If the member that did by far the least get the first finished waystone, it's absolutely snubbing the one who did the first.
What I'm saying is that the Eonir are pragmatic enough to understand that the first mass deployment is going to be Kislev, but proud enough that taking their rightly earned prestige will piss them out.


Again, what is one waystone going to change for Kislev? I's the symbol that's important.


You explained my entire point.
I will say that I doubt we can go "laurelorn gets one, as a treat." It's all or nothing so if we choose laurelorn, laurelorn gets as many as it needs to cover laurelorns weak spot.

I just think that might be 4 to 5 tops. Laurelorn is not big and has iirc a working Nexus.
 
I will say that I doubt we can go "laurelorn gets one, as a treat." It's all or nothing so if we choose laurelorn, laurelorn gets as many as it needs to cover laurelorns weak spot.

I just think that might be 4 to 5 tops. Laurelorn is not big and has iirc a working Nexus.
We totally can. Boney said that the inauguration of the first waystone is going to be a public event.

I disagree with this which I assume is why you cut my quote in half.
Unless we're also going to make it, test it, then throw a cover over it and 'inaugurate' it after its already been functioning for several weeks.
Here's the relevant quote:
They did not. The location of the first New Waystone is going to have a fair amount of symbolic importance.
 
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I just think that might be 4 to 5 tops. Laurelorn is not big and has iirc a working Nexus.
Laurelorn in fact has three nexuses within its own territory: Tor Lithanel, the Tower of Se-Athil, and the Pass of Stone. Outside of Laurelorn, Middenheim, Salzenmund and Neues Emskrank also have nexuses connected to Tor Lithanel.

I think it'd be more than 4 or 5 - we've been explicitly told that Laurelorn has some dark corners that are actively bad and not merely unpleasant, and the Drakwald is right over there on the other side of the Schadensumpf, presenting a threat to Forestborn in general. Hopefully if we deployed like 20 or 30 in Laurelorn, a handful may end up going to Middenheim anyway because it's closer to the Drak and cutting down on the magic that the Drak gets is good on top of getting more energy. It'd also be a political coup for the internationalist faction, but it's not guaranteed that's what they'd go with.

I'll give up on my dream of Middenheim explicitly being the first place to deploy in, it really does seem like a stretch. So the order would be... Laurelorn first, then Kislev second, then Sylvania, then everywhere else. Kislev needs its network poked at before deploying there.
 
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Then why did they approach Mathilde?

The part i did not bold says that politically, it showcases wisdom of the Elves. Why would you showcase wisdom of the elves in elfland?
You would showcase the wisdom of the elves by rewarding them for their wisdom by giving them the first copies.

Laurelorn has told us why they got Mathilde. Sarvoi told us that the Council initially viewed the Project as a way to build connections for Laurelorn and ensure it is treated as an equal. Mathilde understanding foreign magic would make her a good candidate for giving Laurelorn chances to reach out to its neighbors and politic.

Look at the waystone components we have. All but one of the categories has something the Eonir provided, and that was provided by Ulthuan. They flubbed the investigation of riverine leylines, but that wasn't the Grey Lords. I'm quite confident too that they could have come up with material and enchanted storage too if they had put their mind to it. It's not like the Colleges did. The Colleges just browsed their archives and pulled some doo-dads out and repurposed them. The only component they could not have provided on their own was the leyline. But here's the thing. They absolutely could have. Air was one of the transmission possibilities instead of rivers or leylines. Sarvoi mentioned that they have plenty of experience with it. It'd be inefficient, but it'd be a waystone compared to no waystone.

I imagine everyone here has dealt people starting work on something without much expectation of anything, only to feel entitled to the results when it fruitions beyond their initial expectations. And Laurelorn has a much better claim to those fruits than a lot of the people you have dealt with in similar circumstance.

But then Boris passes on the transcript of the lecture on greenskin magic, which some of our mages found intriguing because, of course, we're not capable of lowering ourselves enough to understand their magics. So we had a look into you, and when we realized that someone with an affinity for understanding magics is in Eight Peaks and working with the Dwarves, we had to speak with you. We've got our own piece of the network just as the Dwarves do, and if we could bring a few more Waystones online, it could do a lot of good for us - and our friends and allies. So we want to open a relationship with your King Belegar, in the hopes of beginning joint research into the Waystone Network."
He considers that. "The Waystone Project is perceived by many as a way to build bridges to the Empire," he says, slipping into the tone of someone used to explaining things to an audience. "Its continued existence is a continued success for Laurelorn's foreign policy. Even if nothing comes of it, working alongside major figures from the Empire and Kislev and the Karaz Ankor reassures those among us that think that Laurelorn might be condescended to, or that Nordland's troops might spill over into the Ward of Frost at any moment.
"So there would definitely be opportunities lost if we can't extend the reach of the Waystone network," you conclude, "but being able to strengthen it only where it still exists would still have significant value. What possibilities do we have for these 'buckets', then?"

"Point-to-point line-of-sight transmission of magical energy is a well-trod path," Sarvoi points out.

"If you don't mind the wind taking half of it on a good day," Hatalath counters.

"It all would have been in the wind anyway," Sarvoi says. "Efficiency isn't so important as long as they're funnelled directly into a Waystone, our pseudo-Waystones could just suck it all back up and try again."

Of course there can be negative consequences. But we're going to more or less know what they are, and the idea that we should take it on faith that they will be so cripplingly bad as to constitute an "unforced error" is silly. Options generally have pros and cons, that's why they're options!

Yes, the Eonir are prideful. They also take pride in working towards an altruistic bigger picture more than everyone else. If the first waystone going somewhere else was unthinkable to them, we flat out wouldn't have the option. Queen could just say "no" and that would be that.

If there's to be a vote at all she evidently doesn't do that, so let's tamp down the presupposition and fearmongering and keep an open mind.
Talking about the downsides is not fearmongering. For instance, deploying waystones to Bretonnia first would be an unforced error, but it's still an option.

I'm not sure though about your characterization of the Eonir. They're isolationists who are only just poking their heads out of their forest. They just don't know the outside world enough for that to be accurate imo.

They have some books on outside groups, but the information within them would be only of value for understanding the Eonir and their circumstances. Their view of the Empire in most of them is along the lines of that it consists of two parts, Nordland and Middenland, and possibly some others, maybe? Their main hobbies are chopping down trees and failing to abide by the deals they make.

Is nitpicking all thats left? Because I never suggested it was a good location. I said it wouldn't be a political stub.

Which I still agree with.
I just also think it would still be a bad decision for reasons that are unrelated.
I cannot read minds. I can only reply to what you post. I was explaining what I read and why I said what I did.

And yes, it's a political snub. For all intents and purposes, Laurelorn could have made waystones by itself, though importing the stone might have been difficult. They instead reached out to others and asked if they wanted in. For ulterior purposes, sure. And they didn't expect to make waystones either. But, feeling entitled to results you didn't expect is normal behavior. I'm sure we've all dealt with people like that.

Laurelorn wants to be treated like an equal, and being jumped over in the order of deployment when you are the host of the project and provided most of the work isn't being treated like an equal.
 
I think it'd be more than 4 or 5 - we've been explicitly told that Laurelorn has some dark corners that are actively bad and not merely unpleasant, and the Drakwald is right over there on the other side of the Schadensumpf, presenting a threat to Forestborn in general.
Actually, Drakwald sound like an excellent candidate for first waystone. It benefits both Eonir, since Drakwald is probably the main sources of gribblies they've to deal with, and Empire since it's, well, part of Empire (at least on paper, though rebuilding the waystone there would be major step forward in making it a part of Empire in reality).
 
When the Project was still spooling up, you could horse trade for their participation. With Waystones being deployed, you set a price for their involvement, and their access to the fruits of the labours they did not contribute to. Right now the Iron Orcs only need to be swung at for the pure joy of it, for even more leverage during those negotiations, or if there's something personal you want to extract from the Bretonnians.

Ah, so now that we have shown success and tangible results it's no longer a pie in the sky project, it's a proven product that everyone wants. We would essentially be "selling" them for our price if we approached them and if they approach us they are coming with very little to present that we don't already have some level of. No need to pull them in because we have shown we don't need them for success. Thank you for the clarification. I still imagine they have some knowledge that would be useful but that is more of there "ante" so to speak. Much like the Karag Dum situation. No one wants to be the first but definitely not the last to volunteer. They are now one of if not the last to do so.
 
The Eonir got into the game to build diplomatic ties and make the humans treating them bad less thinkable.

Sticking the first rock somewhere in the Empire would make everyone around it like the elves more, which they would count as a win.

Sticking it somewhere in their elf forest would give them a big cool rock and enhance their civic pride in the elf kingdom, which they would count as a win.

It's actually pretty hard to come up with something we'd plausibly want to do that wouldn't be counted as a win for them, considering that they were up their elbows in getting it done and we won't be shy about telling people.

Like, five years is probably a single action point to the Elf Queen, and she got every country east of Brettonia and somehow even the dwarves to enjoy her hospitality. We could turn the rock sideways and use it as a big lunch table and she'd probably feel pretty smug about the return on her investment.
 
You would showcase the wisdom of the elves by rewarding them for their wisdom by giving them the first copies.

Laurelorn has told us why they got Mathilde. Sarvoi told us that the Council initially viewed the Project as a way to build connections for Laurelorn and ensure it is treated as an equal. Mathilde understanding foreign magic would make her a good candidate for giving Laurelorn chances to reach out to its neighbors and politic.

Look at the waystone components we have. All but one of the categories has something the Eonir provided, and that was provided by Ulthuan. They flubbed the investigation of riverine leylines, but that wasn't the Grey Lords. I'm quite confident too that they could have come up with material and enchanted storage too if they had put their mind to it. It's not like the Colleges did. The Colleges just browsed their archives and pulled some doo-dads out and repurposed them. The only component they could not have provided on their own was the leyline. But here's the thing. They absolutely could have. Air was one of the transmission possibilities instead of rivers or leylines. Sarvoi mentioned that they have plenty of experience with it. It'd be inefficient, but it'd be a waystone compared to no waystone.

I imagine everyone here has dealt people starting work on something without much expectation of anything, only to feel entitled to the results when it fruitions beyond their initial expectations. And Laurelorn has a much better claim to those fruits than a lot of the people you have dealt with in similar circumstance.
Okay, so they got into the project not because they need it, but because it was to better the ties with the Empire, so the culmination of the project showing off their very visible contribution should be displayed where very few humans can see and feel its benefits. Is that what you are saying?

Edit: Not to mention that we could´ve built entirely non-elven waystone instead with what we found out, so what you are saying about contribution of others is straight up disingenuous.
 
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Laurelorn in fact has three nexuses within its own territory: Tor Lithanel, the Tower of Se-Athil, and the Pass of Stone. Outside of Laurelorn, Middenheim, Salzenmund and Neues Emskrank also have nexuses connected to Tor Lithanel.

I think it'd be more than 4 or 5 - we've been explicitly told that Laurelorn has some dark corners that are actively bad and not merely unpleasant, and the Drakwald is right over there on the other side of the Schadensumpf, presenting a threat to Forestborn in general. Hopefully if we deployed like 20 or 30 in Laurelorn, a handful may end up going to Middenheim anyway because it's closer to the Drak and cutting down on the magic that the Drak gets is good on top of getting more energy. It'd also be a political coup for the internationalist faction, but it's not guaranteed that's what they'd go with.

I'll give up on my dream of Middenheim explicitly being the first place to deploy in, it really does seem like a stretch. So the order would be... Laurelorn first, then Kislev second, then Sylvania, then everywhere else. Kislev needs its network poked at before deploying there.

I'd argue for Mordheim before Sylvania, as it's a much smaller place (Boney estimated 10 Waystones for Mordheim, same as Praag). Meanwhile, for Sylvania we could potentially need hundreds of Waystones (IIRC it was said that there were around 300-400 in each province, with 3/4 of them usually being in place; however, while Sylvania might be relatively small for a province the Network there is just gone). Given the total absence of Nexuses and the existence of the Council of Manhorak, we could even consider an easier and cheaper model with pure Riverine (Spirit) transmission and without storage*, but just designing it would require a whole action by itself.


*Unfortunately we probably couldn't bypass the need for High Mages, though, as IIRC the Collegiate design requires Leylines and putting the 'greater risk of Dhar bomb if sabotaged' capstone in Sylvania is probably not a good idea.
 
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Okay, so they got into the project not because they need it, but because it was to better the ties with the Empire, so the culmination of the project showing off their very visible contribution should be displayed where very few humans can see and feel its benefits. Is that what you are saying?

Edit: Not to mention that we could´ve built entirely non-elven waystone instead with what we found out, so what you are saying about contribution of others is straight up disingenuous.
You can of course argue that the eonir where totally inconsequential to the project and that the humans would've managed it fine, and you might even be right. But the asterisks would be gigantic.
As for their main want being diplomatic ties... That doesn't preclude them from have done the most in our current iteration of waystones and tributaries and wanting that to be acknowledged.
Also we already know the first waystone will have a big ceremony and tamtam around it, what better way to make diplomatic inroads then being the host and wowing everyone with never before seen elven architecture, cuisine, craftsmanship and hospitality.
 
You can of course argue that the eonir where totally inconsequential to the project and that the humans would've managed it fine, and you might even be right. But the asterisks would be gigantic.
As for their main want being diplomatic ties... That doesn't preclude them from have done the most in our current iteration of waystones and tributaries and wanting that to be acknowledged.
Also we already know the first waystone will have a big ceremony and tamtam around it, what better way to make diplomatic inroads then being the host and wowing everyone with never before seen elven architecture, cuisine, craftsmanship and hospitality.
Thats not what i said thought. I just see Hobbits argument that everyone else contributed jack shit just because their contributions did not make it to final design as utterly wrong.
 
Okay, so they got into the project not because they need it, but because it was to better the ties with the Empire, so the culmination of the project showing off their very visible contribution should be displayed where very few humans can see and feel its benefits. Is that what you are saying?

Edit: Not to mention that we could´ve built entirely non-elven waystone instead with what we found out, so what you are saying about contribution of others is straight up disingenuous.
Am I arguing that we never should deploy waystones beyond Laurelorn? No, obviously not. We'll have to deploy waystones to several places to get as many people interested in getting waystones as possible. Obviously Praag, but Sylvania and Mordheim too. The Drakwald and the Middle Mountains. Ect. I am arguing that we should honor Laurelorn by giving them the feather in their cap of being able to say they got it first.

It's not disingenuous because that other people could have made them doesn't matter for my argument. I was bringing it up to give a reason why Laurelorn would be peeved. Nobody present thinks waystones could have been made without Laurelorn reaching out. Nobody had the impetus. The dwarves don't like extra-karak infrastructure, so they're out. The Empire's leadership doesn't understand waystones beyond 'wizard does wizard thing, makes things better.' Boris knows full well that Kislev could not have made waystones on their own, not any time soon. The Ice Witches, for all intents and purposes, do not exist to make waystones. They're less being refounded and more just being founded. Boris also knew very well that the host of the Project gets dibs. That's why he said that there would be no reward to great if Mathilde made waystones when trying to get her to base the Project in Kislev. This leaves only Laurelorn to get annoyed that they could make them by themselves and be annoyed at not being prioritized.

I presume his automatic support of the Project includes having the Project's tributaries group having retroactively started teaching Kislev's magic-users the current tributary rituals?
That's going to be high up on the to do list, but there's going to be a lot of teething problems and turbulence as they try to go from groups that have been sidelined for almost two centuries to being supported by and integrated with the government. Their first priority is likely to be recruitment and infrastructure.

I'd argue for Mordheim before Sylvania, as it's a much smaller place (Boney estimated 10 Waystones for Mordheim, same as Praag). Meanwhile, for Sylvania we could need hundreds of Waystones (IIRC it was said that there were around 300-400 in each province, with 3/4 of them usually being in place; however, while Sylvania might be relatively small for a province the Network there is just gone). Given the total absence of Nexuses and the existence of the Council of Manhorak, we could even consider an easier and cheaper model with pure Riverine (Spirit) transmission and without storage*, but just designing it would require a whole action by itself.

*Unfortunately we probably couldn't bypass the need for High Mages, though, as IIRC the Collegiate design requires Leylines and putting the 'greater risk of Dhar bomb if sabotaged' capstone in Sylvania is probably not a good idea.
Deploying waystones doesn't involve mass deployment to my understanding. It's mostly for show. Trying to do a few big things or lots of small things to get the dominos falling.

Worse, the network still exists in Sylvania. Throwing in leyline waystones to make sure that they stop poisoning land to 'horrible for even Sylvania' would be rather big. Nobody lives in Mordheim, people still live in Sylvania. Not opposed to Mordheim, but I just think that's important to keep in mind. I'm also not sure if there is a nexus for waystones in Mordheim to send energy too. The Mordheim nexus might be repairable, but if it is it could help with Mordheim and Sylvania. Though Mordheim would need leyline waystones before Sylvania for that to work.

Some of those Waystones fed west into the Moot, others just fed into the magical realm of Not My Problem Any More....
There would need to be a survey to follow up that map to check which are still there and how they all connect up. Chances are that somewhere from many to most of them aren't part of the network any more, they're making one place livable at the cost of making another place nasty even by Sylvania standards.

Thats not what i said thought. I just see Hobbits argument that everyone else contributed jack shit just because their contributions did not make it to final design as utterly wrong.
I am not arguing that. I am arguing that Laurelorn has contributed significant amounts to the Project and that means they are going to feel pretty snubbed if they aren't first.
 
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Thats not what i said thought. I just see Hobbits argument that everyone else contributed jack shit just because their contributions did not make it to final design as utterly wrong.
That I can agree on, we might be using mostly elven artifice but we damn well made them think hard about it. Forced them to acknowledge our wisdom and all that.
 
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