Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I'm not sure how you got from 'this cultist managed to get a dwarf time table and some warpstone laced blackpowder' to '...and then he killed Teclis or Tyrion'. Those are different skillsets. In the case of Tyrion the skillset is just 'god' I think :V
Same exact skill set; money and spies and manipulation and lots of contacts with whomever is available.

I was actually just thinking the exact same type of assassination; planted bomb. Or just huge loads of cash used to hire a poisoner or something. Those methods probably wouldn't work -- Finubar or Teclis have food-testers, have defenses, have bodyguards, etc -- but we're working on hypotheticals and hugely-successful dice rolls.

Though it doesn't have to be Marienburg that it happens in or the Asur that it happens to; it was just a stand-in for any sort of "We expect the universe to just head to a battle with an Everchosen, but somebody major dies 'off-stage' due to an assassination attempt before he even gets to the main stage" thing.


For a less serious answer to a ":V" tongue-in-cheek post though; obviously I expect him to channel the power of Stromfels to barechest knuckle-fight Tyrion in Marienburg!

There was some cult of Stromfels operating in or near Marienburg in one Gotrek and Felix shortstory; the end of that story had a brief "The sacrifices were being done to appease Stromfels and avoid a bad storm; a bad storm happened. Was it all a coincidence or not? Who knows for sure." type thing, but eh.

You didn't expect that time we supplanted a shrine to Stromfels with a shrine to Ranald way back at the start of the quest, to come back to bite us, did you?

Think again.

The longest-running brick joke or reference that Boney had ever had laid, would be what does our ambitions in; it was the Previous Stirland Spymaster, In Marienburg, Teaming Up With Stromfels!
 
Same exact skill set; money and spies and manipulation and lots of contacts with whomever is available.

I was actually just thinking the exact same type of assassination; planted bomb. Or just huge loads of cash used to hire a poisoner or something. Those methods probably wouldn't work -- Finubar or Teclis have food-testers, have defenses, have bodyguards, etc -- but we're working on hypotheticals and hugely-successful dice rolls.

The high elves also have precognition of the kind that gives them a vision of the most lethal thing that would happen to them the next day and so lets them avoid it.

You'd need multiple attacks in a day where the less likely to be successful ones weren't also collaterally avoided by the measures taken to avoid the most likely one.
 
I was actually just thinking the exact same type of assassination; planted bomb. Or just huge loads of cash used to hire a poisoner or something. Those methods probably wouldn't work -- Finubar or Teclis have food-testers, have defenses, have bodyguards, etc -- but we're working on hypotheticals and hugely-successful dice rolls.

Dice rolls still have to exist within a reasonable possibility space. Like if you told me Mathilde, as skilled and wildly successful as he is would kill Maleketh I would react the same way.
 
And yet, Alkharad was a significant nemesis to Stirland in his backstory which Mathilde did not interact with until she stumbled upon him at the end of his "story". He was tearing through Roswita's greatswords; he was launching constant assassination attempts. He was training up an entire Necromancy college. He was a severe threat and antagonist, and could have been a major or moderate Warhammer novel or RPG adventure villain for the entire province. Even as-is, he was a threat to the province, one of many if probably the most organized one. It's just... we ended him. And then all the rest of the Vampires kind of crumpled in the face of Stirland's army and the Battle Mages.
Yeah, Mathilde has reached that level where a true nemesis would have to be someone like Drycha or Neferata. Someone we can't easily reach and kill, but who can't easily reach and kill us. And we've been careful to not directly oppose really powerful villains directly in a way that puts a permanent target on our backs. Like we disrupted Drycha, but she's not going to hunt us down for that slight, and while we disrupted the Lahmians, Neferata either doesn't know it's us, or doesn't have the reach to target us or doesn't think it would be worthwhile do so.

Marienburg is our enemy to a degree, but they're also just not really that strong when push comes to shove. They can disrupt us some economically perhaps, but they also don't really know that it is us specifically that's been screwing them.

It's hard to create a nemesis in this story because any threat that is obviously a problem will not be targeted just at us, it'll be targeted at the empire and the empire takes those kinda threats seriously.
 
This story leans more towards realism than handwave-y high fantasy in some ways. Mathilde not having a longstanding feud against a nemesis where they mutually plot against each other is both realistic - because Mathilde's response would be to start planning out a straight-up assassination - and frankly, not a problem that needs solving.

I like Divided Loyalties' grounded take on things! Sometimes that means we don't have unrealistic moments of high drama where another quest would, and I wouldn't trade the former for the latter - and given that this is the most popular quest on SV, I think that's a view many share.

EDIT: Took out the quote, because it wasn't really directed at the other poster.
 
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Here's How Stirland Spymaster Predecessor Nemesis Can Still Win

"Remember when your attempt to set Ranald as patron of the Stirland Watch miserably failed? It was me, Mathilde! My agents sabotaged your efforts from the inside! When your attempt to scout Eagle Castle resulted in a zombie almost eating your face? It was me all along! I directed the cultist whose death caused the Underpants Incident! I'm the mastermind behind Wizard Chic!"

"All this time I have been your greatest foe! The mines that sunk the Dwarf river monitors? Me! Birdmuncha? I told him about the dragon and set off his Waagh! Marienburg's blockade? The Nuln Verenans getting angry at you? Me, me, me! Why do you think it's taken so long to make spider-silk? It was me, Mathilde, IT WAS ME ALL ALONG!"
 
In a scenario where Mathilde has a Nemesis, our immediate response to said nemesis would be "alright, how do we kill them?". As Mathilde is an incredibly specialized assassin, to the point that any enemy that we can feasibly fight on the battlefield is also, almost certainly an enemy we can find and kill when they aren't expecting us. Unless said enemy is also an assassin, and then we are facing a Mexican standoff where all outcomes result in no longer being nemesi. Either they kill us, we kill them, or we forget about each other for more important things to do.
 
"Remember when your attempt to set Ranald as patron of the Stirland Watch miserably failed? It was me, Mathilde! My agents sabotaged your efforts from the inside! When your attempt to scout Eagle Castle resulted in a zombie almost eating your face? It was me all along! I directed the cultist whose death caused the Underpants Incident! I'm the mastermind behind Wizard Chic!"

"All this time I have been your greatest foe! The mines that sunk the Dwarf river monitors? Me! Birdmuncha? I told him about the dragon and set off his Waagh! Marienburg's blockade? The Nuln Verenans getting angry at you? Me, me, me! Why do you think it's taken so long to make spider-silk? It was me, Mathilde, IT WAS ME ALL ALONG!"
"Noo...Shorty Greasy Spot Spot?"[/Blackadder]


Alternately: "Who?"[/Guardians of the Galaxy]
 
Here's How Predecessor Stirland Spymaster Nemesis Can Still Win

Okay, but here me out—Wilhelm von Tarshof can still win, if we make the following assumptions:

1) that he is the mystery everchosen candidate
2) that he was responsible for the Marienburg/Empire trade conflict and Skull River attack
3) that he survived the Marienburg purge
4) that he retained the favour of his gods

And okay, that's a lot of assumptions I'm asking for there, but if, if, he meets all those, then yeah, he can still win.
 
Okay, but here me out—Wilhelm von Tarshof can still win, if we make the following assumptions:

1) that he is the mystery everchosen candidate
To be clear, I made that joke because I remembered your theory, and how I was and remain a huge fan. I'm with you all the way buddy! One day there could be a climactic battle in the Everbowl, a dramatic speech and reveal!

And Mathilde will be like "Who? Oh shit, I haven't thought of that guy in decades! I'll stop you! Uhhh... what was your name again? William?"
 
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Wilhelm Von Tarnshof can still win, but even if he does, he might run into a similar issue that Countess Von Carstein/Alkharad/others did; while they opposed us from the other end of a metaphorical chessboard, our on-screen interactions did not always result in a dramatic stageplay confrontation. Or vice versa for Alkharad; he did not oppose us for long ((except for being present from the start in Sylvania, if we had looked into him before; we just wound up not having time/opportunity to do so while working for Abelhelm)) but his brief appearance and short run was conversely pretty good.

Countess Von Carstein got "Artillery, do you see that castle over there? Well I don't want to!"'d by Dwarf guns and her own spell collapsed on her (presumably that was her) and we never saw her on-screen. Before that, she had cast a huge figure over Stirland and even the Empire; she had torn her way through the Haupt-Anderssens. Her machinations resulted in the Lahmians and Grey Order and a Ranaldian all getting stuck in and playing intrigue against her; the Emperor wound up appointing a Van Hal to Elector Count-hood. She deserves a chapter or entry in the Empire's history, modern history at least. And yet, we simply never had much personal interaction with her.

Alkharad actually had a pretty darn good run as a nemesis; he had a good introduction in the form of the assassination attempt on Roswita, he got some good banter or one-liners in; he got a second appearance as we spied on him working his magic; and then we got a cool update of pulling a Castlevania on him. Us sneaking dramatically into his castle, slaying his servants, getting the drop on him only for him to narrowly dodge; we had a tense and cool "knife-fight in a phone booth" exchange of blade and spell both; we almost died, but instead turned the tables and slew him; he even went out with a few good words.

He just didn't last very long in Mathilde's "on-screen" story. It was a 1-episode monster of the week, even if he was the Arch-Villain-of-Another-Story to Roswita's story. For all that we slew him fast, his appearance and splash was actually darn good.

Countess Von Carstein did last for 7 years, and was the driver of the whole plot behind why we and Van Hal were in Stirland in the first place; but we never personally confronted her face to face.

Von Tarshof could be behind the Marienburg Blockade Threat we advised Von Bitternach on, the Blackwater Sabotage, the Skull River Ambush, the disappearance of Stirland's previous Elector count into the realm of Chaos (and thus then him reappearing as a Chaos cultist would be due to Tarshof's ultimate actions), as well as other political or diplomatic disruptions in the background... ... but all that stuff -- even if it was stuff we interacted with, to minor or moderate degrees, or were influenced or affected by -- was stuff that we just don't have a convenient personal confrontation over.

Hell, does he even know that the Marienburg Blockade Bluff Check, or the Trouble In Talabheim, stuff was us? If those were plots of his (the latter only being an incidental one, as a hypothetical) he might not even know that we struck a blow against him. Just as we can't be sure that one individual person was behind the Blackwater/Skull River stuff.


Maybe when the Everchosen comes, it'll be that Tribesman Chief guy that we bought cows from. We gave him a ton of silver, and he was probably going to use that to summon Slaaneshi daemons or something. Would that count as a personal self-made nemesis?
Or trade with other clans, who might get some boost in some way. We also took out a local(...ish) Khornate warband with Kislev ice magic to retrieve the corrupt chaos grail thing. That might anti-climax an Everchosen candidate or two, or the gap might result in an opportunity for somebody else to advance their own power due to the Kul warcamp being knocked out.


The lesson to take from all of this, is that you never know when and how a good 'nemesis' will pop up, so you should take the opportunity to make as many nemesises as possible by wrecking Chaos/Druchii/Orcs/Skaven as much as possible.

Sometimes they'll be somebody who you were fighting against in a military campaign for years, but never personally encounter; like most of the Skaven leaders in Karak Eight Peaks or Countess Von Carstein. Sometimes they were present in the background but you never got around to it, before they suddenly entered your life and left it just as quickly, like with Alkharad or Birdmuncha or the Singing King. You never know, so get involved in as many pies and plots as possible. Do as much good as possible and thwart as many villains as possible; do that enough, and eventually you'll get lucky with somebody cropping up for an episode of half a season or so!

Maybe we'll get lucky with the Elfcation. Perhaps we'll even find out what that Druchii was doing in Karak Eight Peaks with the Skaven all along, a decade or so ago. Or maybe "We can't comment on an ongoing operation..." can take decades for Asur-Druchii plots and counter-plots.
 
There are things that sticks out to me about Karak Izor.

It's at the centre of a famously safe region for dwarfkind, with a safe underground (going by the Underway construction) and barely any greenskins up top, and would've gotten population influxes during the Goblin Wars. Despite that, it has less population than any of the major Worlds Edge holds at a mere 20k, compared to Barak Varr and Zhufbar with 30k. I'm not sure why it isn't larger. By all rights it should be a major hold, but instead it's a minor hold.

On top of that, it's stated to be the first karak founded outside the Worlds Edge, meaning it's older than Barak Varr, and yet it's still considered a young hold. It also compounds the headcount dilemma; it's had a long time to build up population.

The one thing that explains Izor's low population is Dwarfs 8e page 25, which says "Its deep mines have found copper aplenty, along with tin, iron and too many Skaven", but if skaven are such an issue, why are they building Underway? The obvious explanation is that the Underway construction is 1e lore and thus outdated, except the Dwarf Player's Guide page 49 reiterates the 1e lore about them building Underway.

Grudgelore, page 73
Word has reached the hold from Karak Drazh and Karak Azul that both Karag Dron and Karag Haraz103 have erupted.

103 Meaning 'Thunder Mountain' and 'Fire Mountain', respectively.
Apparently the dwarves have two words for fire: haraz and zharr.
Dwarfs 1e: Stone and Steel has more information here. Pages 102 and 105:


So 'Har, Haraz' means 'Fire, lava', while 'Zharr' firmly means 'Fire'. The two runes are similar, but notably different. I cannot decipher the revelations here, save that the dwarves possibly named a volcano "Lava Mountain".

Dwarf Player's Guide page 106
Kolbrokdul Mining Carriage
Originally designed by the Kolbrukdul clan workshop of Zhufbar, the steam-powered mining carriage enables Dwarf miners to bring up more ore more quickly to the processing shops and forges. [...] Even Karak Norn and Karak Izor have started using them, gifts from the High King to paper-over a grudge.
This is in contrast to DL's Thorgrim, who Gotri informs us only cares about technology when it has military applications.
 
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This is in contrast to DL's Thorgrim, who Gotri informs us only cares about technology when it has military applications.
Assuming that Gotri is perfectly accurate in his assessment of Thorgrim.

There are things that sticks out to me about Karak Izor.

It's at the centre of a famously safe region for dwarfkind, with a safe underground (going by the Underway construction) and barely any greenskins up top, and would've gotten population influxes during the Goblin Wars. Despite that, it has less population than any of the major Worlds Edge holds at a mere 20k, compared to Barak Varr and Zhufbar with 30k. I'm not sure why it isn't larger. By all rights it should be a major hold, but instead it's a minor hold.

On top of that, it's stated to be the first karak founded outside the Worlds Edge, meaning it's older than Barak Varr, and yet it's still considered a young hold. It also compounds the headcount dilemma; it's had a long time to build up population.

The one thing that explains Izor's low population is Dwarfs 8e page 25, which says "Its deep mines have found copper aplenty, along with tin, iron and too many Skaven", but if skaven are such an issue, why are they building Underway? The obvious explanation is that the Underway construction is 1e lore and thus outdated, except the Dwarf Player's Guide page 49 reiterates the 1e lore about them building Underway.
I don't particularly jive with any Warhammer population numbers they give, they basically never make sense.

I'm also pretty sure that Barak Varr is older than Karak Izor.
 
It's at the centre of a famously safe region for dwarfkind, with a safe underground (going by the Underway construction) and barely any greenskins up top, and would've gotten population influxes during the Goblin Wars. Despite that, it has less population than any of the major Worlds Edge holds at a mere 20k, compared to Barak Varr and Zhufbar with 30k. I'm not sure why it isn't larger. By all rights it should be a major hold, but instead it's a minor hold.

On top of that, it's stated to be the first karak founded outside the Worlds Edge, meaning it's older than Barak Varr, and yet it's still considered a young hold. It also compounds the headcount dilemma; it's had a long time to build up population.

The one thing that explains Izor's low population is Dwarfs 8e page 25, which says "Its deep mines have found copper aplenty, along with tin, iron and too many Skaven", but if skaven are such an issue, why are they building Underway? The obvious explanation is that the Underway construction is 1e lore and thus outdated, except the Dwarf Player's Guide page 49 reiterates the 1e lore about them building Underway.
Maybe you could say its only counting izor proper for population and not all the allied holds around it.
It being called the first hold outside the worlds edge is weird tho
 
"to paper-over a grudge"

Might be the case that that's why Thorgrim did it; a simple and straightforward way to end a grudge? Sign me up, says Thorgrim!

... Hm. I wonder how many other such short-term actions Thorgrim took, without any regard to the long-term future. I mean, beyond the ones we already assumed he was prone to taking to begin with. I mean, what kind of "Should I allow or set this policy or precedent of Technology/Runesmithing/Law/Economics? Eh, if it resolves more Grudges than it will make in the medium-term..." things was he prone to doing? In what areas? To what effect?

... Probably not too many such things. Boney characterized him more as being willing to smash the "Avenge a Grudge, but at the cost of Dawi lives" button. Though he also isn't willing to do that if it creates more Grudges than it solves, or feels like an untenable situation that does no good and needs amputation.

It's funny or sad to think how many decisions might have been motivated by "Resolve a Grudge now, while hopefully not laying down any improved odds of creating a future Grudge" which might have avoided long-term problems simply due to being Grudge-averse. It was definitely paid-for in other ways in terms of future life though.

Overall, I'd guess the result was probably too much of a focus on killing enemies, and not enough on restoring.


On the bright side, maybe all that focus on technological weapon advancement, will come in real handy when the next Everchosen marches? He's also recently refocused on fortifying the shit out of places like Eight Peaks, the Silver Road, and maybe Vlag too.

Thorek was concerned with what the Clan of Morgrim was doing, and how the Runesmiths Guild/Clan was falling behind. Uncertain whether he means to have them advance in weaponry/technology, or something else, or what. Will it be something that'll be useful in the war against Chaos?

... Will we even see a war against Chaos? Will it hit Dum? Kislev? Elsewhere? Ulthuan??? Albion, perhaps? Or will it get butterflied?
 
wasn't he the demon prince we stabbed to death in his palanquin through a wall?
That was the previous Elector-Count, the last of the Haupt-Anderssons.

AsuraAtlas was referring to Wilhelm von Tarshof, the Spymaster of Stirland prior to the start of Quest and Mathilde taking up the position.

(Also, he was merely mutated, that would have been a very different encounter if he was somehow a Daemon Prince. And he wouldn't be eligible for the Everchosen Bowl if he was, I don't think)
 
So roughly they may get rendered essentially non functional due to lack of supporting tributaries feeding them or receiving waystones for them to dump to, but there are probably failsafes as seen with the K8P crown to put them on standby rather than melt, explode, launch into orbit, and then implode trying to fight an unstoppable tide?
There are no failsafes or alternative modes for normal Waystones since they're too minor, but the Karak Waystones are huge nexuses and there's several examples of nexuses being repurposed like the Athel Yenlui (Aethyric font), Bugman's Brewery and Karak Norn (special drinks?), Vlag (Warp prison), etc.
 
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Absolutely not. Spellcasting is incredibly complicated and a spell cannot be transcribed onto a page of sheet music. Each pipe only has volume as its single axis to communicate information, and what a Wizard is doing with magic when they are casting a spell is far too complicated to fit into a single dimension of data.
I know this is not what you meant, (and doesn't fit this setting), but my mind immediately thought: "Of course a single instrument isn't enough. You need an entire orchestra."
Good ol' survivorship bias.

Personally I think the Runic Inductor would make a solid choice for a simpler "mass-production" model, whether that be a standard leyline model or the portable-riverine-spirit model people have been kicking around - the drawback relative to the Stone Flower is that if you have 1) multiple winds present 2) in high quantities, some additional Dhar gets created. But I think that's not a huge problem compared to the benefit of "you don't need High Magic to make every single one" -- while runesmiths aren't exactly commonplace, ones capable of the Runic Inductor (which Thorek literally described as Apprentice work) are nonetheless thicker on the ground than High Mages. I think the Stone Flower was a good choice for a model designed in part to impress the hell out of everyone, matching and in some ways exceeding the Golden Age's capabilities, but different tasks suggest different design parameters.
I agree that the Runic Inductor is a solid choice, (especially for a boat-model,) but I believe what @mathymancer was attempting to get at was that the Collegiate Fascis may have its own advantage. Our current, (still-unnamed) waystone design has the following:
Advantages:
Dual Transmission - Leyline + Riverine
Iterative Improvements - Storage Mechanism
No Visible Precious Metals
The dual transmission means that if the leyline connection is severed, it will still send the magic through the river, thus avoiding the Dhar buildup that is a major flaw of old waystone designs.

For a leyline-only Waystone, the Collegiate Fascis offers a similar advantage: If the leyline connection is severed, the waystone turns off. It also avoids the major disadvantage of older waystones that turns them into ready-made Dhar generators.

The counterargumenst against this were 1. You want waystones to continue functioning when separated from the network. (I find this dubious due to the many cases of sabotaged waystones.) And 2. The Collegiate Fascis would somehow be less effective than the other two options. But this isn't supported by the text, which seems to show all three options being equally viable for their main function:
The first is the Collegiate Fascis, your own invention, which involves eight rods bearing simple enchantments around a conductive core. While this has minimal material costs and could be replicated by just about any Wind-based enchanter, eight separate enchantments is a substantial amount of effort, and it was built under the assumption of a connection to the Waystone Network and will not function without it.

The second is the Stone Flower designed by the Grey Lords Elrithish and Seilph, consisting of a single simple enchantment on carved stone that absorbs and relays energies exactly as needed. The only problem is that it is a product of High Magic, and as such can only be made by a small number of highly skilled Mages from Laurelorn or Ulthuan.

Finally there is the Runic Inductor, Thorek's design incorporating two simple Runes, one of which he rediscovered. While very simple and cheap to make, it is also a very basic instrument, simply absorbing and transmitting energy without regard for the consequences of them intermingling. Most of the time the Winds' tendency to naturally repel each other would be sufficient to prevent the creation of Dhar, but when multiple Winds are present in large amounts and being absorbed by a Waystone incorporating this component, more of it would be transmitted downstream as Dhar than would be the case for the other two components.



[ ] [CAPSTONE] Collegiate Fascis
Requires a Wind-based Wizard. Moderately difficult, low cost. Requires a connection to the Waystone network.
[ ] [CAPSTONE] Stone Flower
Requires High Magic. Simple, negligible cost.
[ ] [CAPSTONE] Runic Inductor
Requires a Runesmith. Simple, negligible cost. Will result in more Dhar and less of the other Winds when large amounts of multiple Winds are present.
Basically, when considering the two options for a leyline-only waystone, I see the comparrison as the following:

Collegiate Fascis
+Doesn't require limited High Magic casters.
+Automatically turns off if the connection is severed.
-More expensive.

Runic Inductor
+Doesn't require limited High Magic casters.
+Cheaper.
-Creates more Dhar in high wind conditions.

Notably, the Runic Inductor may create more Dhar if the waystone is deliberately sabotaged. Possibly not a problem given the locations we want to deploy them to, but still. I really like the idea of creating multiple waystones that deliberately fix the major flaw of the waystones created by all those ancient, legendary, but not-so-flawless mages.
 
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Collegiate Fascis
+Doesn't require limited High Magic casters.
+Automatically turns off if the connection is severed.
-More expensive.
-Requires 8 Wizards skilled in Enchantment, one from each College.

Runic Inductor
+Doesn't require limited High Magic casters.
+Cheaper.
-Creates more Dhar in high wind conditions.
+Can be done, easily, by a single apprentice Runesmith.

If we are looking for something mass-producible then the Runic Inductor is vastly better. Karak Vlag has several thousand people who can make one. The Colleges have significantly less qualified enchanters, even before the eightfold man-power requirement.
 
If we are looking for something mass-producible then the Runic Inductor is vastly better. Karak Vlag has several thousand people who can make one. The Colleges have significantly less qualified enchanters, even before the eightfold man-power requirement.
It depends on the timescale of mass production, if we need a bunch fast the Runic Inductor is superior but if we're willing to wait we could pump out the same amount of Collegiate Fascises (Fasci, Fasces?) we could simply do a lower rate of production over a longer period of time. Also for Vlag to produce the Runic Inductors they would have to already know both runes needed for it or have someone from outside teach it to them which would be difficult given the current tensions between them and the Cult of Thungni which is of the opinion that absolutely none of them should know how to do let alone actually do any kind of Runecraft.
 
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