Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Okay, I was asking for that. Literally.

But what I was meaning to figure out was, besides all the magical favors our familiar will get us. What does a wolf-sized wolf bring to the table? Will he fight with us? Can we send him to do errands in our name? Boney said that this will be the last time Winter Wolf will be available, even more than Avatar so I'm kind of tempted to get a huge-sized wolf so we can ride it.

Oh! Do we get extra fighting power when fighting mounted on a giant wolf?
Eventually he's gonna be human smart, so we can send him on errands. We could take him spying if we wanted. We joked about having him write our papers for us, and Boney responded that if you see a name without a title mark on a given College paper then it was co-authored with a familiar.

If you want him to be useful in combat though, you need Winter Wolf.

Of course, we have like 200 of those guys already, so one more isn't terribly useful.
Not really since there are several possible reasons why he could refuse to be our subordinate and if it's such an issue he could always disappear for a month and claim he became a magister in that time or outright reveal his true rank.
*shrug* Then he will at least stop lying to our allies for no reason, with no further effort on our part.

But BoneyM wouldn't have put him as a subordinate option if we couldn't get him as a subordinate, particularly since it would then throw off all our plan voting.
 
Well, let's take a crack at it.
Which of the Journeymanlings to recruit will be in plan format. Votes for individual Wizards will be considered votes to only hire that Wizard. This is because it would be optimal to have two or four without the trait, or three with it - unless you plan to hire more later.

[ ] Recruit Esbern and Seija
[ ] Recruit Panoramia
[ ] Recruit Maximilian
[ ] Recruit Johann
First of all, reminder that the wizard vote is by plan.

Esbern and Seija are already doing the biggest project we have for them, and they plain like to wander about with their kittybird-riding buddies.

We all like PanPan, but she is going to stay around for what seems like years helping the Halflings in the valley, and her skill set is perfect for that. We can always tap her latter for a special project.

Max is our Paper Writing Slave. Gimme.

And Johann, while he did play something of a trick, his trick did allow us to seamlessly assume control and reap all the benefits from it.

Furthermore, he is a Magister, which makes him by far the most skilled and responsible of our potential minions. For god's sake, he was trusted to investigate skaventech.

And consider this for a moment: his entire toolset is geared towards study and analysis. His notes alone provided a +10 to writing papers. Our new job entails in investigating whatever weird thing we find in the Karak.

Do not pass him up.


Thus:
[X] Plan Fields of Gold

There's also the matter of the EIC. While it is certainly thriving under WIlhelmina's rule, it's worrying how much of Stirland's economy it has been allowed to control.

[ ] Take an active hand in the EIC
One action per turn will be spent keeping in touch with the EIC, allowing you to more directly control it and, if you wish, helping it branch out towards Karak Eight Peaks.
[ ] Leave the EIC alone
Wilhelmina's the least bad person to fill the power vacuum Roswita has left in Western Stirland.
[ ] Interfere with the EIC
As Wilhelmina herself pointed out, you own enough of it that you could easily dominate the EIC. Start bringing it down.
As discussed, we really, really should take the hint, and take a hand on the running of the company.

Expanding it to K8P and using it as spy ring goes hand in hand, is massively useful and alleviates Bursar issues, farms College favor with the info and avoids having to tear it down.

[X] Take an active hand in the EIC

[ ] Infiltrator: Nobody seems to guard anything well enough to keep you out. +2 Intrigue, +10 bonus to infiltration.
[ ] Scout: Sometimes the best weapon is knowing where everything is. +2 Intrigue, +20 to infiltrating all but the highest-security areas.
[ ] Assassin: Combat is easiest when the other person doesn't realize they're in it. +2 Intrigue, +40 bonus against unaware targets.
These are low-key, but amazing. Good stat increase, and the roll bonus is either modest to a very frequently made roll, or absolutely massive to an absolutely critical one.
[ ] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
This is the key to Sorcery.

A long and arduous research path, but unique and potentially revolutionary. Negating battle magic miscast means freely using Irresistible Force to dominate any engagement.
[ ] Polyglot: Your time with the Dwarves has revealed that you have an ear for languages, and learn new languages much faster.
Sounds good, but in practice, one of the least useful ones. We will assimilate Khazalid on the background, and already speak Eltharin. The other interesting language doesn't present sufficiently attractive pros to justify an entire trait.
[ ] Marksman: Blackpowder is a wonderful thing. +2 Martial, +10 to attacks with blackpowder weapons.
Generically good.
Collegiate: They say managing Wizards is like herding cats. Herding cats isn't actually that difficult. Can manage three other wizards per action spent.
Useful, and potentially truly excellent if we want to really call down a horde of wizards for our shenanigans.
[ ] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts
Damn, that's great. Boosts learning and makes us even more amazing at fucking Waaghs. Our current preferred method of dealing with spellcasters is "counterspell a lot, then artillery if the miscast didn't get them".
[ ] Wolf Familiar > Winter Wolf Familiar: Turns out Wolf is a late bloomer. Wolf will grow large enough to ride upon.
Sounds tempting... Until you realize that our Shadowhorse is currently utterly critical to our combat by providing a very good Ward save, and a Winter Wolf is no pocket dragon like griffon would be.

Even more importantly, Wolf's +1 magic is too valuable to risk him in open combat, before considering the sentimental value.
[ ] Brave > Daredevil: Runic protection, magical protection, magical healing... why are people scared of combat again? +2 Martial, immune to fear/terror effects.
Dread Aspect makes us immune to fear and terror already.
Blooded > Campaigner
Generically nice.
[ ] Bureaucrat + Practical > Warrior of Paperwork: Scholarship is just a specific form of paperwork. You can live with it. Combines the two traits, +2 Learning, remove penalty to writing papers yourself
Why remove the penalty, if you can just take a a Paper Writing Slave?
] Practical > Collaborator: Though you still prefer fieldwork to paperwork, you've found that as long as someone else is doing the actual writing, you're capable of producing some amazing papers. +2 Learning, +20 bonus to dictating papers.
This here is potentially great for extra favor.
Practical > Hands On: Wait, you can just get other people to do the paperwork? Why didn't I think of this sooner? +1 Diplomacy, +1 Stewardship, +1 Martial, +1 Intrigue, -1 Learning, +10 bonus to insights developed 'in the field' (as opposed to careful laboratory study).
Good stat gain, but dings our magic casting stat and fucks our lab research. No Bueno.
[ ] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others
I think most of everyone has cottoned on that upgrading what's by far our best trait is a massively good idea.

To say nothing that this is likely what Volans, one of the greatest human wizards ever, had.
[ ] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists
I like Mathilde has a clear flaw, and it doesn't bother us any down in K8P.

Opportunity cost makes this one of the least desirable ones.

Thus:
[X] Assassin
[] Magic Duelist
[X] Avatar
[X] Windsage

Assassin's bonus is just too massive to ignore, Magic Duellist is our jam, Avatar is liable to never show up again, and holds great potential besides, and Windsage is auto-pick.

@edit: Fair point that Duelist is very liable to show up again, we always go for dispelling.
[ ] Return it with your thanks to the Bright College. +2 College Favour.
[ ] Try to sell it as you pass through Barak Varr. +??gc
[ ] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
[ ] Donate it to the Winter Wolves of Ulrikadrin.
[ ] Keep it around in case you ever want to study non-Ulgu enchantments.
[ ] Keep it anyway - you might need to encourage allies at some point
I've said it before, but Undumgi are the most likely to get into a "if you break, we lose" situation, and the Wolves already cause Fear.

[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi
 
Last edited:
You can just open up the vote tally and browse for a minute to find the plan you want. Voters are hardly idiots, they can certainly manage to perform that task with ease.
Okay. So... Of the various (but few-voted) plans that pick 3 or all 4 wizards, should I make sure to vote for every one of them, even the really small ones? How do I inform the people voting for the "has like 1/2/3 votes" plan that picks All 4 Wizards, to consolidate on the bigger plan to make sure all 4 wizards? How do we ensure that the newest voters, who read the update for the first time, don't have their eyes glaze over as they scroll through the long tally and try to make sure they pick all the ones they can?

The disorganization is pretty bad, is what I'm getting. And it means somebody will have to combine all the "this votes for the same wizards" votes at the end of it. And then also try to make sure there are no duplicate voters in that, in case somebody tried to cover their bases by voting for all the plans.

Look, people aren't idiots, sure, but this is messy and easy to hit "eyes glazing over" status and etc.

Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by ichypa on Oct 3, 2019 at 10:27 PM, finished with 375 posts and 134 votes.
 
Last edited:
Wolf-sized wolves are nice because they can fit all the places that wolves can fit, which is most places. If we get the right familiar abilities Wolf will become fully intelligent, able to psychically communicate to us, and able to speak with our voice. That would be pretty great since it would let Mathilde basically leave him back in a control room somewhere, narrating her actions while she infiltrates and murders her way through the enemy so that the command staff get live reports on what's going on from Solid Shadow's codec Mathilde's pet wolf.
Eventually he's gonna be human smart, so we can send him on errands. We could take him spying if we wanted. We joked about having him write our papers for us, and Boney responded that if you see a name without a title mark on a given College paper then it was co-authored with a familiar.

If you want him to be useful in combat though, you need Winter Wolf.

Of course, we have like 200 of those guys already, so one more isn't terribly useful.

A sneaky wolf would be better than a huge one for a Grey Wizard, yeah.

...I really feel reluctant on not getting a one-time shiny, but I guess our familiar will have to stay wolf-sized.

Bye Winter Wolf.
 
[X] Leave the EIC alone

[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Collegiate: They say managing Wizards is like herding cats. Herding cats isn't actually that difficult. Can manage three other wizards per action spent.
[X] Infiltrator: Nobody seems to guard anything well enough to keep you out. +2 Intrigue, +10 bonus to infiltration.
[X] Assassin: Combat is easiest when the other person doesn't realize they're in it. +2 Intrigue, +40 bonus against unaware targets.
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.

Honestly, I don't really see the appeal of winter wolf familiar or Polytheist. We already have a good mount, and people are talking about getting a flying one. Why get a wolf mount on top of all of the other ones? Not to mention, it would be super risky using him in battle. If he gets killed we are gonna be in a really bad spot. Meanwhile I actively like the 'Disdain for Sigmar' trait, it adds so much more character to Mathilde! No way am I ditching that when there are so many better options!
As for the other traits? It feels like people are overlooking a lot of traits like Collegiate in favor of more crazy stuff like Avatar. I'm not much of a fan of Avatar myself. Why chose to divine will over mortal shenanigans? Collegiate let's us better manage one of the most fun types of mortals... Wizards! Infiltrator/Assassin would help us refine that sneaky, staby thing we've got going and Magical Duellist helps us continue our streak of blowing everyone's fancy spells to smithereens!

As for Windsage? Just look at it, that shit is amazing.

[X] Donate it to the Winter Wolves of Ulrikadrin.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.

I think some good will with these guys is much more valuable then a small amount of favors or some more gold.
 
I really do not like the trait Avatar. Being an Avatar trades free will for power. Power is not a concern here. We will get more power and I really don't like trading our ability to make choice just for power.

There is also the fact that the trait makes it clear of the pluralism. It's not becoming an Avatar of Ranald. It's becoming an Avatar of anything that wants to but in. Even Sigmar. Ewww.

The only deity we have been an Avatar of so far is Mork. So please don't think that poor Mathilde will get to choose who holds her strings at any given possession attempt.
I am voting for Avatar because I really like the imageof Mathilde and Ranald being back to back badasses, as well as the Order Sorcery possibilities.
 
I really do not like the trait Avatar. Being an Avatar trades free will for power. Power is not a concern here. We will get more power and I really don't like trading our ability to make choice just for power.

There is also the fact that the trait makes it clear of the pluralism. It's not becoming an Avatar of Ranald. It's becoming an Avatar of anything that wants to but in. Even Sigmar. Ewww.

The only deity we have been an Avatar of so far is Mork. So please don't think that poor Mathilde will get to choose who holds her strings at any given possession attempt.
It was mentioned that the avatar trait would aid in resisting possession, and that alone would be worth a trait.

It would make you more able to try to resist being possessed by a Chaos God. Though that's not really a problem that most people will have in their lifetime.
 
Last edited:
Don't mind me. Just collecting all of my votes together.

[X] Plan Fields of Gold

Dang @Guile stole my plan and everyone liked his name better, grumble grumble.

[X] Leave the EIC alone

[X] Infiltrator: Nobody seems to guard anything well enough to keep you out. +2 Intrigue, +10 bonus to infiltration.
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
[X] Collegiate: They say managing Wizards is like herding cats. Herding cats isn't actually that difficult. Can manage three other wizards per action spent.
[X] Wolf Familiar > Winter Wolf Familiar: Turns out Wolf is a late bloomer. Wolf will grow large enough to ride upon.
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.

[X] Donate it to the Winter Wolves of Ulrikadrin.
 
[X] Plan Fields of Gold
-[x] Recruit Maximilian
-[X] Recruit Johann

Panoramia can be safely left to do her own thing, Maximilian is a perfect assistant, and forcing Johann to eat his own disguise is absolutely hilarious.
 
[X] Avatar
[X] Wolf Familiar > Winter Wolf Familiar: Turns out Wolf is a late bloomer. Wolf will grow large enough to ride upon.
 
Last edited:
And building from that, it probably makes it easy for friendly gods to possess us while enhancing our ability to resist possession. It effectively gives us more agency (in that very specific circumstance).
also, with the give and take nature of warhammer metaphysics, its also possibly a step closer to that whole Ranald the Magician thing people (read: me) were hoping for
 
Yeah, look at all the stuff in the college guys. The more we can get/the more money we can save and not exorbitantly throw around and possibly raise eyebrows, the better. Thus, the college favors for the Torc.
College Favor is, of course, not bad.

But the Torc is a pretty dang worthwhile item. A unit breaking is bad, bad news for it.

Against scary foes, having Fear counters theirs and the Torc alleviates breaking from losses. Against hordes, Fear helps a ton.

Very good fit for Undumgi.
l favors our familiar will get us. What does a wolf-sized wolf bring to the table? Will he fight with us? Can we send him to do errands in our name? Boney said that this will be the last time Winter Wolf will be available, even more than Avatar so I'm kind of tempted to get a huge-sized wolf so we can ride it.
A normal wolf that gives, to start, +1 Magic.
 
So when you do arrive back in Blutdorf, the answer to him is simple: ignore the harpies. Marry for love.

"Easier said than done," he sighs, but you instantly shake your head.

"Saying would be doing." You look over at the man standing just outside the door. "What's his name?"

Anton barely glances over. "Ermanrich."

"Ermanrich!" The man turns and peers into the room. Part of nobility is never having privacy, but good guards would pretend to be deaf until they were called upon. "If Anton told you to throw me out, would you?"

He looks at you doubtfully. "I would try."

"There you go. If these petty noble girls try to badger you, have them ejected. Doubt they'd put up more of a fight than I could. Might cause a political fuss, but less so than the headache they'd be if they succeeded."

You spend the next few days lingering in Blutdorf and trying to build up Anton's self-confidence in his ability to control his fate, and by the time you leave he's at least willing to give it his best.
Ranald bless our friend in his endeavors.
May he land on some fine true love.
First, there are the Journeymanlings. Esbern and Seija will be remaining at least until the spiders are sorted out, and it would be much easier to convince them to stay, and the Amber College to back your request, as a Court Wizard than it would have been as 'Head Ranger' or 'Marshal of the Undumgi'. Panoramia has fairly deep ties to the Halflings already and is likely to be making herself useful with them for years or longer. Maximilian will be learning as much as he can from his new friend in Clan Hazkal, and considering his appreciation for Dwarven artifice, he's likely to stick around even after his studies conclude. Johann's deception could give you an in to bring him under your authority, even though he's your equal and may have seniority over you.

On the other hand, time spent managing junior wizards would be time not spent pursuing your own tasks and goals.

Which of the Journeymanlings to recruit will be in plan format. Votes for individual Wizards will be considered votes to only hire that Wizard. This is because it would be optimal to have two or four without the trait, or three with it - unless you plan to hire more later.

[ ] Recruit Esbern and Seija
[ ] Recruit Panoramia
[ ] Recruit Maximilian
[ ] Recruit Johann
Okay, a couple of factors:
-For writing Papers, we want a wizard of each wind if we can manage it. Three Winds(Ulgu + 2 others) gives a good perspective bonus, more than that gives diminishing returns, we get more rolls, but no further bonus on the paper's Favor value.
--Johann as a Magister adds a +10 to his observation rolls as well, but while statistically significant, as a Magister he'd take more Favor from collabs as an equal partner and give less Favor for "Journeymen Wrangling"

-Remember the power of delegation. While they tie up our actions to manage, they can perform more actions than we spend on them. The average for a job is that the subordinate would take 2 actions per turn on a job, spending more if they're dedicated or its a crisis. Each action invested by us into minion wrangling gives us 4 actions, which are limited to the minion's actions.
--Esbern and Seija, we don't have any permanent projects for them to work on other than the spiders, Dragon Ogres, and potentially orc, skaven and troll autopsies. On the other hand, we get two wizards taking 2 actions per turn for 0.5 actions per turn. This makes them good at LOOKING for curiosities
--Panoramia has literal years of work to do on agriculture, the magic mushrooms, and the various rare plants and drugs we might acquire off the trade route. She's a definite benefit, we're unlikely to run out any time soon. On the other hand its not like we need to actually command her for a while.
--Maxmillian is our paper mill. Useful any time we write a paper. His use as an actual investigator is limited by how green he is and how much of his actions are tied up smithing, but he with half an action, pays for himself easily.
--Johann is THE local most experienced and skilled wizard. As an investigator he's the best option, almost any situation is improved by having two differnet Magisters on the problem

-Remember responsibility. If a wizard is hanging around Eight Peaks and not under our authority, we're still going to be responsible for their actions in dwarf eyes as long as they're Journeymen or Apprentices. A Magister MIGHT not, but we'd be expected to poke them with a stick if they did.
--Esbern and Seija won't need any responsibility. If we don't keep them they'd be moving on.
--Panoramia got the shit scared out of her and she's naturally likable. She'd be fine.
--Maxmillian is definitely under our responsibility as the ranking Magister in charge. He's probably not going to get into trouble...except his diplomacy is terrible. So he will.
--Johann is a fellow Magister. This means he's nominally under our control, and the dwarfs WILL poke at us if he messes up or offends them, but under dwarf culture a Master of their craft is expected to be primarily responsible for themselves. Still better in than out though.

This establishes several combinations:
-2x - Most free time, but least action amplification.
--Good Papers:
---Maximilian + Esbern and Seija - Gribbly Research
---Maximilian + Panoramia - Rare Plants From The Far East Research
--Troubleshooting:
---Esbern and Seija + Johann - Find problem with riders, then drop two Magisters on the problem.
--Headache Mitigation:
---Maximilian + Johann - The most likely to cause trouble that we'd need to manage.
---Panoramia + Maximilian - This assumes that a Magister is responsible for himself with minor supervision. We'd have to expose him as a Magister one way or another though.

-3x - This costs a trait, so I doubt it'd win with so many good competitors, but in case it does:
--Good Papers:
---Maximilian + Esbern and Seija + Panoramia - Research in every field, and a writeslave
--Troubleshooting:
---Esbern and Seija + Johann + Panoramia - Find problem with riders, then drop two Magisters on the problem. Panoramia can interpret plant based problems for more coverage.
--Headache Mitigation:
---Maximilian + Johann + Panoramia - Literally everyone staying in the Peaks.

-4x - Get them all, then just accept being down 2 actions.

Posting this bit first. This took longer than I expected and the traits deserve their own analysis.
 
Another point in Avatar's favor is that we can probably only get it now. Magical Duelist is great, but given our habits in battle we will definitely have the chance to pick it up again. Avatar is only an option because we got possessed by a god; that isn't a circumstance likely to be repeated.
 
I'm actually thinking about importing more wizards to k8p, probably a celestial or a light, fir their affinity for theoretical magic.

A pity that both of those colleges are not on grey terms with ours.

Or maybe a particulary scolarly bright wizard, thosee are useful in more ways than one, and we do get along.
 
Another point in Avatar's favor is that we can probably only get it now. Magical Duelist is great, but given our habits in battle we will definitely have the chance to pick it up again. Avatar is only an option because we got possessed by a god; that isn't a circumstance likely to be repeated.
Avatar might be a unique occurrence we can't pick up again. On the other hand is it actually a positive thing? It's rare to have the chance to get Kuru but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to go ahead and get it.

Basically Avatar is a mystery box. It might be very good, it might be very bad, it might not do all that much at all. Compared to the other traits which definitely do some very positive things it's hard to find it convincing to take.

Edit: the other way of looking at it is that it's going it be a similar boost to the other traits in which case it's basically choosing the piety boost option.
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan Role Model for the Younglings
-[X] Recruit Esbern and Seija
-[x] Recruit Maximilian
-[x] Recruit Panoramia
Take a swing at recruiting all of them. They might not stay, but we can give it a shot. Edit: @Alectai convinced me to let Johann go, so yet another edit.

[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.
Windsage to act as passive anti-Waagh and anti-Skaven magic senses(if I'm reading this right), and getting us out of political hot water before it come back to bite us. I'd love to get warrior of paperwork, but that doesn't look like that'll happen as of page 1543(where I am voting from).

[X] Leave the EIC alone
Thought about running it, then I remembered the warning we were given about 'baiting the hook' for money, so I'm leaving it alone.

[X] Return it with your thanks to the Bright College. +2 College Favour.

All the other choices seem disrespectful to the Bright College, and I'm leaning towards letting someone else use it to help out elsewhere, though I can be talked into keeping it with a good argument. What we'd use the favor for, I'm uncertain.

Edit: Edited to be plan format at request of @TotallyNotEvil
Edit 2: Fixing plan name to cause less vote tally problems.
Edit 3: fixed again
 
Last edited:
It was mentioned that the avatar trait would aid in resisting possession, and that alone would be worth a trait.

BoneyM only said it would help with Chaos possession. Order gods like Sigmar and Ulric or Evil gods like Stormfels and Khaine would have an easier time influencing us with the Avatar trait.

And building from that, it probably makes it easy for friendly gods to possess us while enhancing our ability to resist possession. It effectively gives us more agency (in that very specific circumstance).

The trait only gives protection against Chaos. Remember that shrine to Stormfels we found in the Sunken Palace. He and others gods like him aren't Chaos but are still evil and they would have an easier time messing with Mathilde if she gets noticed by them.
 
Avatar might be a unique occurrence we can't pick up again. On the other hand is it actually a positive thing? It's rare to have the chance to get Kuru but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to go ahead and get it.

Basically Avatar is a mystery box. It might be very good, it might be very bad, it might not do all that much at all. Compared to the other traits which definitely do some very positive things it's hard to find it convincing to take.
look, literally every other trait is a net positive, I doubt it will hurt us.
 
Back
Top