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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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MrHobbit said:
Necromancy and Lores of Chaos don't give arcane marks. They give mutations.
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The effects of Dark magic use are explicitly separate from mutation, to the point that when mutation is referred to it points at a different table.

In the book Realms of Sorcery, it explicitly uses the same rules between arcane marks and dark magic side effects, and refuses to reprint the tables for the dark magic marks because you can find them in the main handbook.

Necromancy is, incidentally, incapable of conferring mutations altogether.
 
Mopman43 said:
There's also the Damsels.

(And the Shugengan if you count them as human)
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Good point about the Damsels. You could argue that they probably aren't entirely human. But at the same time, there's a good chance that whatever allows Truthsayers to cast from multiple lores without going insane also makes them inhuman. I don't think the Shugengan count as human either.

Blackout said:
I've seen a lot of people claim that, but I've never actually seen where people get the source for that.
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In Storm of Magic, Truthsayers can be taken as a Level 2 or 3 wizard. They can either take the Lore of Beasts or Life. They can always swap one of their spells for Transformation of Kadon. Their spell list in Dark Shadows also seems like a mix of winds.

chocolote12 said:
The effects of Dark magic use are explicitly separate from mutation, to the point that when mutation is referred to it points at a different table.

In the book Realms of Sorcery, it explicitly uses the same rules between arcane marks and dark magic side effects, and refuses to reprint the tables for the dark magic marks because you can find them in the main handbook.

Necromancy is, incidentally, incapable of conferring mutations altogether.
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Oh, that's what you were talking about. I thought you were talking about Tzeentch's Curse. Apologies, I should have paid more attention.

Though the question of why Myrielh was so curious about arcane marks is still open. I'm also curious what she would think about divine and witch marks.
 
Shane_357 said:
I wonder how much an OoS is physical and how much it isn't... could we forge a Liminal realm of Mathilde and shove an Ulgu OoS in there to super-charge her power?
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How in the world would be go about that? We have been repeatedly told that trying to bind a liminal realm to our soul is a fools errand. And you can't make a liminal realm of a person that just doesn't make sense. Then beyond that we have no indiction that using a OoS on ourselves would give us a boost, and why would, it's just a bigger power stone.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Hmm. If we define the base unit of pissed-offedness as the millikragg (with Kragg the Grim, of course, as the reference benchmark of 1000 millikraggs), I wonder how pissed off Malekith is?
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Somewhere in the 3-500 millikragg range, I think. Pissed-off-ness is woven into the Dwarven spirit and culture alike like no other race on Mundus, but Malekith's had a long time to practice. Several decikraggs feels about right.
 
dlwj2000 said:
How in the world would be go about that? We have been repeatedly told that trying to bind a liminal realm to our soul is a fools errand. And you can't make a liminal realm of a person that just doesn't make sense. Then beyond that we have no indiction that using a OoS on ourselves would give us a boost, and why would, it's just a bigger power stone.
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What is a shadow cast, but another border? Mathilde's shadow is already infused with Ulgu, a dynamic border between reality and the Winds. We just need to... feed it.
 
Trying to create a liminal realm in your soul is like trying to build a basement in your car. There's a lot of reasons that shouldn't work right off the bat, and even if you manage to overcome them it's going to do really bad things to both the car and the road the second you try to go anywhere.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
Hmm. If we define the base unit of pissed-offedness as the millikragg (with Kragg the Grim, of course, as the reference benchmark of 1000 millikraggs), I wonder how pissed off Malekith is?
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Common misconception that Kragg has 1000 millikraggs of anger; the creators of the millikragg failed to account for the fact that Kragg is constantly getting angrier and angrier. The millikragg is thus in relation to his anger 800 years ago
 
Simon_Jester said:
Hmm. If we define the base unit of pissed-offedness as the millikragg (with Kragg the Grim, of course, as the reference benchmark of 1000 millikraggs), I wonder how pissed off Malekith is?
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thepsyborg said:
Somewhere in the 3-500 millikragg range, I think. Pissed-off-ness is woven into the Dwarven spirit and culture alike like no other race on Mundus, but Malekith's had a long time to practice. Several decikraggs feels about right.
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Nah, he's on a different scale. Malekith is sustained not by rage but by hatred. Cold and slow and backed by the weight of centuries. He hates the proud Asur and that he rules them not. He hates his mother, and her attempts to grasp at his power. He hates his father, and the shadow that Aenarion has always cast over him. He hates the Dwarfs, both how they are so much lesser than him and remind him bitterly of the friends and life he gave up for power. He hates humanity and their pathetic attempts at building kingdoms atop the ruin of Elven glories. He rages to be sure, at his subordinates' failures, at his enemies' cleverness, at a world that will not give him his rightful due. But his rages die out. His hatred does not.
 
MrHobbit said:
You only need to fumble casting once. I can't think of a reason why she would be so shocked about a human having arcane marks
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MrHobbit said:
Though the question of why Myrielh was so curious about arcane marks is still open. I'm also curious what she would think about divine and witch marks.
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We know that Elves don't really do Arcane Marks. I suspect this might have been the first time she'd ever been close enough to an Arcane Market human with the time and inclination to actually take a closer look. I doubt she spent that much time around humans, the ones she wouldve would be slaves and having magic using slaves sounds...iffy, and the weird Barbarian Norscan tribes are pests to be smote so you can spend time on worthwhile things. Even the ones laughably trying to use magic.
 
MrHobbit said:
Necromancy and Lores of Chaos don't give arcane marks. They give mutations. The Colleges are quite firm that there is a difference. Collegiates can also get mutations. The Hag Witches and Ice Witches get witch marks. Priests get divine marks.

Dedicating yourself to a single wind wasn't invented for the Empire by Teclis. In Cathay humans are only allowed to learn one lore: Heavens. Their alchemists seem to be split between Fire and Metal. The Indic books that Mathilde went over evidently didn't say something groundbreaking, like humans using multiple winds without going insane. Hell, if the Sidestory is to be taken seriously, the Old Ones themselves noted that humans had a tendency to get attached. There is only one tradition in the world that is known to produce humans capable of safely using multiple Lores and that is Albion.

I don't think there is evidence that arcane marks come from prolonged use of a single wind. If anything the Collegiate system is evidence against that. The Colleges like arcane marks because they ensure that the apprentice can't take what they were taught and leave. You don't need to be deeply immersed in a wind to get them and the first arcane mark that people get often won't be achieved in deep immersion. You only need to fumble casting once. I can't think of a reason why she would be so shocked about a human having arcane marks.
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We have no reason to assume there is a qualitative difference between Chaos Mutation, Arcane Marks and Divine Marks that cannot be explained by the difference between Chaos, the Winds and the Gods (of Order). All are changes to body and soul caused by exposure to magic, it is just that some magic is more benign or malicious than others, some magic sticks more than others. Like yes Dhar gives you Dhar poisoning from exposure Ghyan does not give you Ghyan poisoning, but both of them are manifestations of the same thing, the Aethyr impinging on the material.

This is not a argument College wizards will be making aloud for the same reason you do not hear them arguing that divine servitors and daemons are the same, i.e. they do not want to be burned for heresy.
 
reignonyrparade said:
My impression is you can get dhar poisoning without ever using Dhar yourself, which is very much NOT the case with arcane marks, so it seems extremely unlikely that they're manifestations of the same thing.
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But then, Dhar clings. Winds just do their own thing.

Although "transmuting part of one's soul into Dhar-stuff" sounds kind of wild, so maybe you're right.
 
Somic said:
But then, Dhar clings. Winds just do their own thing.

Although "transmuting part of one's soul into Dhar-stuff" sounds kind of wild, so maybe you're right.
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I mean, the winds cling too, to an extent, just to the things that resonate with them, metal attracts Chamon for example, confusion attracts Ulgu.
 
Boney said:
Trying to create a liminal realm in your soul is like trying to build a basement in your car. There's a lot of reasons that shouldn't work right off the bat, and even if you manage to overcome them it's going to do really bad things to both the car and the road the second you try to go anywhere.
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Such limited thinking Boney, after all, what is a basement but a extension into one dimension! Curve that and what do you get... but a bitchin' camper van! ShadowVan2024 /jk
 
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