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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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- Outside the Box
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- She/Her
Nothing would make the evil villain in me happier. Literally thousands of WFDLAAQ readers would suffer.
Every laugh react on my omake is another scream of terror.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
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He could, but it would look somewhat deliberately targeted. Mathilde plasters her name all over the place, and it's become a pattern for the thread to do that. I would wager preventing people from remembering her name is most likely worse for the thread than people forgetting her face.
Not that I think Boney wouldn't be that mean if necessary. Maybe if Tzeentch takes a bigger interest in Mathilde? It definitely seems like the kind of joke He would like.
shepsquared
Erratic Aussie
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It could be worse - all the acronyms could randomly change to the name of some other Grey wizard. Some random apprentice that everyone concludes is just another Melkoth who will one day mess with time.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
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Almost as much as I suffered seeing you use that as an acronym.
You can absolutely get a wind mutation by exposure without casting. We just don't call it an arcane mark because that's thing we talk about specific to wizards casting. Where do you think the giant flaming spiders the goblins ride come from? If you stick something alive in an environment consistently filled with a specific wind that thing changes to match the wind.
What is this short for? It couldn't possibly be referring to the title of this thread, Warhammer Fantasy: Grey - an Advisor's Quest.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
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- Behind the Keyboard.
I think that is very reductive look at why people make distinctions on stuff like that. It is not just a matter of getting away with doing exact same thing as heretics, and constantly seeing people talk like that makes me question what you actually thinking about the priests and wizards that you feel the need to draw attention to similarities and ignore differences. That argument reeks Chaos really.
Generally speaking people (actual people not ivory tower academics) classfy what they encounter based on its use. In this way patotes is food, deathcap mushroom is not food. Your argument that they grow from the same gorund therefore they are the same thing except politics will end up bunch of poisonoed people. It is toothless argument and even if you could actually without twisting the facts and doubt you would still be uslessly correct at best and maliciously wrong at worst.
So in short I hate how that your argument boils down to every written story actually being fanfictions of Epic of Gilgamesh. Sometimes distinctions matter mate.
Yeah, but when it shows up in human magic users from Cathay and Ind, and she is still surprised about it there is something wrong. If arcane marks were so common for humans it is something that would be in magical theory, because they've been raiding Cathay and Ind for millennia.
Then she would not have been so surprised about Mathilde's arcane marks. Because it is something that the Druchii would have seen frequently enough in their enemies for them to make note of it. It's not like the Druchii have only known about humans for a century or so. They've been raiding just about every coastline for millennia by now.
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- He/Him
You're reading an awful lot into the reactions of one seemingly young sorceress. My assumption would be that she's mostly not dealt with humans previously, other than slaves, either dealing with other external enemies, or possibly just other Druchii.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
You know I do wonder if there is any way for Amethyst wizards to make non-tainted versions of some necromancer spells, or at least something in a similar vein as them.
Like a spell that allows a person or group of people to simply refuse to die after getting killed and allowing them to continue fighting until the end of the battle.
Probably would require a Amethyst wizard to learn necromancer spells first which is a problem.
Like a spell that allows a person or group of people to simply refuse to die after getting killed and allowing them to continue fighting until the end of the battle.
Probably would require a Amethyst wizard to learn necromancer spells first which is a problem.
NexusEye
Aspiring God
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- She/Her
It could be as simple as Myrielh never personally having seen Arcane Marks before. The Druchii are not monolithic so even if some of them are aware of how Arcane Marks work it's easy for that knowledge to not have propagated across the majority of society both because of inherent secretiveness and because most will never have a need to learn such things.
We managed to reverse-engineer a Dhar spell despite being an Ulgu Wizard, it'll probably be easier for Amethysts since Necromancy is Shyish adjacent. The big problem is the hangups Amethysts have studying anything even slightly related to Necromancy that isn't for the express purpose of countering it. They have enough PR problems as it is.
Ghrond isn't right on the frontlines against the Hung, but it is rather damn close. Druchii society really wouldn't allow her to not have dealt with humans in combat. They'd be the most common enemy and she is centuries old, of course. It heavily stretches belief for her not to have come across the subject if arcane marks, and other equivalents, are common outside of the Empire. It's weird too, because you'd think that just a broad overview of human casters would mention how humans are extremely mutable and can't safely use multiple lores, unlike the 'far superior' elves of course.
Just because she dealt with humans does not mean she would have dealt with humans with Arcane marks. Even if she did, she might have thought an arcane mark was a novel kind of Chaos mutation, being then surprised to see it in a mage of a non-Chaos tradition. Also from where the Dark Elves are standing most humans use multiple lores. Chaos Warriors because they are Chaos, Damsels with the aid of the Lady, Liche priests with the aid of their gods. Humans need gods to use multiple winds, the Colleges just don't know sorcery.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Do we know that the Liche Priests could use multiple Lores?
From an outside-in perspective, one of the most prominent thing about most fantasy settings is that there are a whole bunch of species that you can hold a conversation with, whereas in our boring-ass setting we only get one. That makes it the most ready lens for us to examine the metaphysics of a setting through. A human is human is human, a Cathayan and a Hung and a Mathilde all play by the same metaphysical rules. But why would people inside the setting put so much prominence on species? The Asur have the Druchii, the Karaz Ankor has Zharr-Naggrund, the Empire has the Norscans. Species is not that huge a deal. What is a big deal, always, is Us versus Them.
If you were at that party and asked Captain Maktig whether the Empire was an Us or a Them, he'd shrug. They're on a separate continent and they don't have any naval assets that are meaningful on a global scale. But we're not talking to Captain Maktig, who thinks in boats and blades, we're talking to Sorceress Myrielh. And from a magical perspective, the Us vs Them is very, very easy. Page one of Elven history is the magic of the Old Ones against the magic of the Chaos Gods. The Hung are very much a Them. The Cathayans are a shrug because the Dragon Emperor is a wildcard. But Mathilde gets to be an Us, not least of which because if you're having drinks at a fancy cocktail party with someone they're so much more an actual person than the barbarians at the gates are, but also because Teclis put the Wizards of the Empire on the family tree.
I cannot emphasize this enough: Teclis did it. Teclis, who is descended from Malekith's older brother. Teclis, who at the Battle of Finuval Plain kicked Malekith's ass so hard that Malekith had to yeet himself into the Realm of Chaos to survive. If Teclis trained a kitten, Druchii would tread carefully around that kitten.
So yes, Mathilde gets to be an actual person. That means when Myrielh believes that Mathilde has done something extremely hardcore to her soul, she doesn't say, oh, big deal, Mathilde is human, the Hung are human too and they do that shit all the time. The Hung are a Them. Thems do all sorts of stupid self-destructive stuff, that's what makes them a Them in the first place. But Mathilde is an actual person, an actual person who just formally introduced herself to Myrielh at a fancy cocktail party in a way that the Hung very much don't, and she's managed to give herself soul piercings without destroying the part of herself that formally introduces herself at fancy cocktail parties. That is impressive and cool.
If anyone objects to the above on the grounds that all Elves in every setting must always and only be one-dimensional caricatures that are incapable of doing anything but sneering the moment they see a non-pointed ear, I will scream.
If you were at that party and asked Captain Maktig whether the Empire was an Us or a Them, he'd shrug. They're on a separate continent and they don't have any naval assets that are meaningful on a global scale. But we're not talking to Captain Maktig, who thinks in boats and blades, we're talking to Sorceress Myrielh. And from a magical perspective, the Us vs Them is very, very easy. Page one of Elven history is the magic of the Old Ones against the magic of the Chaos Gods. The Hung are very much a Them. The Cathayans are a shrug because the Dragon Emperor is a wildcard. But Mathilde gets to be an Us, not least of which because if you're having drinks at a fancy cocktail party with someone they're so much more an actual person than the barbarians at the gates are, but also because Teclis put the Wizards of the Empire on the family tree.
I cannot emphasize this enough: Teclis did it. Teclis, who is descended from Malekith's older brother. Teclis, who at the Battle of Finuval Plain kicked Malekith's ass so hard that Malekith had to yeet himself into the Realm of Chaos to survive. If Teclis trained a kitten, Druchii would tread carefully around that kitten.
So yes, Mathilde gets to be an actual person. That means when Myrielh believes that Mathilde has done something extremely hardcore to her soul, she doesn't say, oh, big deal, Mathilde is human, the Hung are human too and they do that shit all the time. The Hung are a Them. Thems do all sorts of stupid self-destructive stuff, that's what makes them a Them in the first place. But Mathilde is an actual person, an actual person who just formally introduced herself to Myrielh at a fancy cocktail party in a way that the Hung very much don't, and she's managed to give herself soul piercings without destroying the part of herself that formally introduces herself at fancy cocktail parties. That is impressive and cool.
If anyone objects to the above on the grounds that all Elves in every setting must always and only be one-dimensional caricatures that are incapable of doing anything but sneering the moment they see a non-pointed ear, I will scream.
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Death, Light and Nehekara mechanically, but fluff wise all of their casting is long slow rituals so at the very least we know they do not cast the first two as college mages do.
Man, elven Balkanization is complex. So many degrees of usness and themness.
There are spells like that. Death's Door makes everyone near the caster unkillable for a brief period of time. Final Words allows for a question to be asked of the recently deceased.
Can't Maidens cast from multiple lores?
To my mind, while humans are quite good at sneering, the Elves have been learning the art of sneering for Millennia - especially the ones who go to these coctail parties.
Meaning, they sneer at both pointed ears and non-pointed ears. But the sneer someone who has managed to get a soul piercing - and is attending these coctail parties - can be... impressed. (I'm now thinking of Draco Malfoy when he learns his underling can read - but more of "I didn't think that was possible")
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
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- Earth
This really makes me want to see Teclis and the Druchii interact at another party. Their inability to not be scared of the crippled, unarmed Elf would be very funny I suspect. Also, possibly very confusing to the Eonir, who I don't think know about Finuval?
Damsels, yeah, they use Sorcery too just of the Lady
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
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- Vermont
Liche Priests as a whole cast all of those, but College Wizards as a whole cast all 8 winds.
What says that an individual Liche Priest can cast more than one?
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- Leeds
People need to actually reread the original passage carefully. Its very explicit.
That is fair, I went back and actually looked at the rules for 6th edition and it said Light, Death or Nehekara. The only indication that they might be able to use more than one is from the novel explaining they do not interact directly with the 'Breath of the Gods' which come to think of it would also mean they probably do not get arcane marks even if they do use Light or Death an Miscast, they would get Wrath of the Gods not the Curse of Tzeench.